It is hardy from Z 10-Z4. Likes neutral soil.

Stipa Icho info

Thanks for sharing my enthusiasm, which at the moment is still off the charts :-)

Here's what caught my attention, it's range, from the high peaks of the Andes to the flat arid plains. It's a highly adaptable plant, so it surprised me to see it was hardy in only Zones 8-10.

I was very pleased to read that it doesn't seed about invasively like Stipa tenuissima, of which I have banned from my garden because of that invasiveness. Sadly, I didn't find any seeds.

Maybe the seeds will form later as the infloresence ages.

I'll look more carefully tomorrow as I missed good light this evening when I checked for seeds.

Wait until they start to shatter to collect seeds. I wouldn't attempt dividing it.

I looked this up last night and my grass book says division of both S. ramosissima and S. capillata is not advised. Although it doesn't specify that for S ichum, the instructions say propagation by seed, I've noticed in the past back when I was trying to create a drift of it, that even the prolific and very easy to grow Mexican Feather Grass is resentful of transplanting and doesn't divide well. The transplanted ones were weak because the roots never quite settled in and I didn't get healthy plants like the ones that came up from seed, many died.

I have killed S. tenuis dividing it.

Murderer

it was the first grass I planted out here and the first grass I killed. Then I went and bought some bluestem and planted it in a native stand of bleustem, IDIOT, but I have learned a few things since then.

I have killed Stipa arundinacea trying to divide it. Murderers we all are.

Ive been on a hunt for more Stipa ichu because it doesn't look dividable at all nor can I see any seeds in all that fluff. There are no mail order sources. My local nurseryman has promised to hunt it down for me. If he fails me, there is a Nursery two hours north of me that lists it, though they don't do mail order. And thry are only open Thurs-Sunday so I can't cut the suspense of learning whether they have it or not until tomorrow. Impatient me!

Did you find any more stipa for sale?

I've got a second order from SRG coming tomorrow. I'm taking plants out and replacing with a clean uniform row of Muhlenbergia lindheimeri all along the west side out back. Its very dry over there and I am wanting a screen, I'll probably have to hand water for some time, we are still so dry here. I have 11 plants coming to add to the 6 plants I got from dividing a struggling plant I already had, poor thing was in a lousy spot. That ought to cover some serious feet in length, I'm planting them 3 feet apart as recommended for a screen.

I also ordered 3 more 'Blackhawks' Big Bluestem, I really like the color of the leaves on the other 3 I ordered earlier. And.....one Panicum 'Hotrod' for a spot of red (hopefully). Is that panicum you have in the photo you posted that you planted in the gallon pot a 'Hotrod'? I'm wondering if you are getting any color? The 'Blackhawks" turned purple after a week of being planted in the ground in sun, they were green when they arrived.

The 'Red October' Big Blue's are finally coloring up nice to a deep maroon but only one is sending up blooms and those stems are short. I read this one takes a couple seasons or more to finally get mature, they were planted last fall so they are still smallish-- about gallon sized. I replanted the 3 Rain Dance Big Blue's up front in 'The Prairie', changed my mind on those. They were already sending down some roots.

I've been holding back, with considerable difficulty!

I am so happy to say that my nurseryman did come through for me; I now have five Stipa ichu. The reason Ive been holding back is I so wanted to show them off by photographing them newly planted in their big clay pots, but that will take me another day or two or maybe three to accomplish. Meanwhile I've been spending a small fortune on their potting soil. My experience with bagged potting soils is they have a short lifetime. So I'm doing a supposedly longer lasting soil mixture of equal parts compost and vermiculite (the latter of which arrived via UPS today), plus palm coir, but am still waiting for this third ingredient to arrive. And hoping this soil mix will be as longer lasting as promised. I'm also waiting on clay pot feet I ordered to lift the pots off my struggling fescue meadow grass. All together too many dollars to admit to spending.

Meanshile a weather miracle took place here which enabled my tree guy to do his thing on Saturday. It rained all day Friday, some late on Saturday, but they kept working, and then it poured all day Sunday. We got 3 7/8" of rain! Another miracle in a way. But now I'll have to patiently wait for the soil to dry some so I can plant. Here's a photo of my delimbed Pin Oak.

And another

Compared to the before photo where you can see how shady it was and also in true Pin Oak fashion where the lower limbs grow downward. I'm 5'2" and felt like ducking every time I walked under some of the lowest ones.

There's tons more sun now though you can see those redwood trees I love to hate on the right which will still cast their dense shade. Still, lots lots better.

I am still struggling with laying out my Blonde Ambition area. I've now put my fourth BA in the mix, the little one I got in my first SRG order, but the two new smaller Bouteloua gracilis plants I received last Wednesday from SRG will not have enough room to grow up so I know I'll wind up doing some more moving around before I get it right. But that'll have to wait until the soil dries out some more. Sunny days ahead.

After nearly three weeks, not a single Fescue seedling has shown up :-(. Did the birds get all my seed????

Just before the rains I sowed more fescue in my other area. This time I was able to rake the seed bed so the seed is not exposed to bird predation. I sure hope I get sprouts this time.

My Panicum Hot Rod shows no sign of color yet.

Love the thought of a long line of M. lindheimerii marching along like a parade of grasses. You keep making me jealous of your beautiful Bluestems!

I don't have any volunteer seedlings from my blue fescue, its still hot here though. They need cool temperatures to germinate, maybe your soil is still too hot?

I dug up a sickly looking Blackhawk Big Blue today. The other two were upright but this one was not taking and had laid over and looked all dried up. I dug it up and there was a June Bug grub eating the roots so I potted it up and have it in the hospital on the back porch to recover, I hope it does.

The shipment arrived from SRG and the 'Blackhawk' Big Bluestems were a lot more robust than the 3 plants in the first shipment, thicker leaves and already purple. They look very healthy. The 'Hot Rod' was cut back, looked like they'd cut a bloom stalk but the leaves are turning red. I've got the muhly's all lined up ready to plant. I soaked the area today and tomorrow will turn the soil to loosen it and plant them.

I wish we'd get some rain. At least the temperature is supposed to drop. We've been in the upper 80's and 90's and desperately dry. I spent Saturday watering and doing some weeding. I also wish our neighbor would do to their Pin Oak what you did to yours except it I really had my way they'd have the sucker cut down and hauled to the dump, if it was in my yard it would have been hauled off years ago just because its ugly in winter due to the leaves, mature size and the shape and for no other reason than just because they are over planted and boring. I am already dreading the leaves. I've been picking up dead branches for YEARS as they fall off regularly. They've never trimmed it and its full of dead branches inside and has that messy nut fall that bloodies up our driveway with dripping black streaks after it rains and then there is the dreaded winter long ordeal of leaves until the end of March. I HATE THAT TREE. It casts a giant shadow across my front yard all morning because its the size of the Empire State Building. I think it should be illegal to plant one in the city because they are so huge and messy. These people have no grass in front, just packed dirt because nothing will grow there due to the Tree Hog and it looks like sh--t over there because of the tree that eats the whole front yard, shades everything and it is planted about 5 feet from our driveway. EVERY LEAF ENDS UP HERE as they continuously drizzle down all winter long like trash. We have to climb up on the flat roof and clean off leaves. They fill the courtyard. They fill the closed in driveway. They collect around my cactus and agaves which is a nightmare to clean and they pile up and cover the steps leading to the back porch and collect around all my grasses. Did I say.........I HATE THAT TREE? My husband hates it as much as me so thats a double hate. The neighbors live on the corner with no plants and almost no leaves pile up in their front yard, they all blow over here where there are so many places for them to gather. I HATE THAT TREE.

I mostly like my Pin Oak which sheds its leaves cleanly in fall. It's completely naked in winter. Very good fall color, my fall narcotic. Love the intricate leaves. Wish it were a Nyssa or a Ginkgo maybe. It's only real fault is those downward branches. And it does need dead branch cleanup every so often.

Really!?? !!! The ones around here just turn brown and keep littering all----winter---long--without---letting---up. Raking is a waste of time. Yours is far from mature, I noticed that. They get ridiculously huge. The advice is to place it very carefully and make sure there is lots of space, its not recommended for average sized yards.

Sounds very ugly and a horrible leaf chore. I would hate it too. I actually welcome the leaf shed, letting them lie pretty much where they fall and it provides a good mulch. Actually I'm fascinated by the complex ecosystem that lives by the billions in the soil forming a symbiotic relationship with plant roots and dependent on mulch at the soil surface to keep the process going.

I' m glad to hear you say it's far from mature! Well, I won't worry too much about how big it'll get. At my age, I'll be gone before it becomes too much of a menace. But I do wish I had the money to take all the pesky trees down. My small property just can't accommodate forest sized trees. Live and learn......

Just ignore the rant, I get this way every year anticipating the onslaught, actually I come close to despair at times because its so time consuming and overwhelming and I work full time so I only have so much time I can spend in the garden. There are lots of things I'd rather do than clean up what falls from that tree. It would not make me quite as irritated if the leaves, at least some of them, piled up next door or if I saw them rake now and then or pick up dead branches which fall daily. The lawn service comes and mows the dirt and picks up branches every couple weeks but they only come in summer. Meanwhile we get all the 'benefits' of the tree droppings, unwanted shade and mountains of unwanted leaves.

By the way, you don't mulch with leaves around cactus or grasses because it causes rot so I have to keep them from piling up for visual reasons and the health of the plants. I have gravel mulch, I don't use, want or need leaves.

I got all the grasses planted. The row is in now that I finally got the last of the lirope dug up. This is all on the neighbors side where its high. The grasses will be 3 ft taller than they actually are from my side, visually speaking. It looks so much better. Clean. Neat.

Rants are good for you :-). Too bad it's not PC to rant at your neighbor..... that'd be more satisfying. I suppose I could rant at my Pin Oak for dropping its leaves into my grasses all fall. I'm constantly finger combing my grasses because the leaves fall on them. All the conifers under the tree need finger combing too. They blow everywhere with a little wind and I have to do a lot of raking. The leaves have already started dropping, trickling down. Almost amother month to go before they're finished dropping. I love watching them fall, but I don't enjoy the work they make for me. No way I mulch with them around the grasses; they'd rot them.

So here's a little preview of what I'm up to besides raking. My terra-cotta pot feet arrived so I put them under my big clay pots and leveled them. I wanted to lift them off what's left of my poor native fescue. They'll also disguise its big bare patches. The fescue struggles to thrive (and mostly doesn't) in a difficult spot of compacted clay soil infested with roots and cast in dark house shade in afternoons. I decided to line up the pots there for the five Stipa ichu. Don't have anywhere else anyway. Should've taken the photos in the morning to avoid the shade, but oh well, I didn't think of that in time.

Before. Notice the bare patches of native fescue. They do go summer dormant if not watered, so I've been watering and it's a lot greener, but there are still a lot of bare patches where it simply refuses to stay alive.

The pot lineup awaiting Stipa ichu.

Here you get an idea of the size of these pots. We have a local email forum in our community and someone was giving these pots away. There was a photo but I didn't tumble to their size, so when my husband brought them home I was nearly speechless.. I also found the prices marked inside, they were $79.99 each! Well then I had to figure out what to do with them at about the same time Stipa ichu was discovered. I hope it'll all look okay when I'm done.

The palm coir is the last ingredient for my potting soil and it'll come late tomorrow so maybe I'll have everything mixed and planted by Sunday. Might start a new topic on Stipa ichu and post some photos.

Almost forgot to mention..... we dug up my big Restio this evening and divided it into about eight or more pieces. It was a huge (!) job and thankfully we had some help. I put a message on the local forum and got more than eight people wanting divisions so I was glad to let my pretty Restio live on. Of course I've kept one for myself.

Grumble. Groan. WAY too much work mixing my own container mix. Damn pots are huge. The Palm Coir is interesting. It comes in compressed blocks and they need to be bucket soaked for 20-30 minutes each to loosen them up.. So that stuff is now soaking wet and won't mix in well until it's drier so it's going to be another day or two at least before I can mix it in and plant Stipa ichu. Sigh.....

I looked at my Panicum Hot Rod today and it has a small flush of burgundy color on two longer shoots. It hasn't grown at all since I got it, so there are only about two stems long enough to show color. Underwhelming so far.

No sprouts in my native Fescue mini-meadow after more than three weeks, so I bought more seed. Can't afford to buy a pound of the mixed native Fescue I've been using, but I did find one constituent, Fescue rubrum Molate seed, so I bought a half pound and I'll try again to fill in my little Fescue meadow. And other areas that have died back.

After more than three weeks, no sign of any Echinacea seeds sprouting. What is my problem?!?! I suspect it's just not hot enough and I need bottom heat.

You might try cold stratification on the echinacea seeds.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Editorial/Blogs/Organic%20Gardening/Growing%20Echinacea%20from%20Seed%20The%20Importance%20of%20Cold%20Stratification

I don't expect any new top growth on the warm season grasses this late, most have gone or are going into dormancy & putting energy into forming seeds, hopefully those new plants are putting it all into roots. I planted my 'Hot Rod in the ground and am just making sure I keep the new grasses moist to settle in and grow a bit more roots, we are still hot and dry here, the heat helps actually.

I ordered 3 more 'Blackhawks' to add to the 6 I already got which will be planted in front of the olive green Panicum 'Northwind' when I move those over to that spot next spring. I also got 4 Bushy Bluestem, they should arrive Wednesday. It was a good deal with 50%-60% OFF + the additional $5 off extra with the MY5 coupon, whole thing came to only $20. I love Bushy Bluestem (Andropogon glomeratus) especially for those fluffy seed heads, vertical habit and especially the orange winter color. I have a low spot that will do well for them since its easy to soak with little effort when we get dry (like right now). It will look nice at night because there is an outdoor light on the wall right behind the spot. Currently I have it filled with Sideoats Grama which blooms in early summer so it looks good in late afternoon sun and at night. Bushy BS should be a nice addition and contrast, it always stands out dramatically along the roadsides here in fall and winter because it is so very orange and fluffy.

I like how upright, tall and thin these plants are, photo is from Hoffman's Nursery showing winter interest in grasses they have growing in a border by their nursery. Some really nice photos.

Wow, stunning orange flowers!

How do you get 50-60% off???

Loved the winter snow photos of the grasses in the Hoffman link - just beautiful. The photos of Cassian reinforced my love of Pennisetum alopecuroides and cultivars. But they were all so pretty. Too bad I can't duplicate the snow here.

I'm going to let our winter do the cold stratification of my Echinacea seeds. I've got them planted in a 18"x18" flat and it can stay on the corner of my deck or somewhere similar all winter. Then after about the last frost, I'm going to use bottom heat because they seem to need 70 degrees to germinate. I doubt I can rely on Mother Nature for that here. I've literally a couple dozen E. Purpurea plants and I leave the seeds on for the birds and still I've only had 4-5 seedlings in three years out of those many Echinaceas.

Once the birds discover the seedheads (may not the first year), they invariably eat all the seeds. I had loads of seedlings all over the YARD the first year or two, then none, but lots of happy fat goldfinches.

And at least for me, they begin eating the seedheads while they're still green. None shall escape :)

There are the birds for sure and I do see them eating.. Your "none shall escape" makes me smile :-). I actually do want to share with them. But there's another factor that occurs to me. I have a half dozen of the ordinary E. purpurea, and my few seedlings have usually been nearby them. But the rest of my many Echinaceas are the much more colorful new hybrids, some of which are said to be sterile. Birds and sterile hybrids? Are those the reasons I have so few seedlings??

This is how you get 50 to 60% off at SRG. They are having their annual Fall Sale. If you type in MY5 for a coupon on your order in the indicated box, you will get an additional $5 off. If you type in MONKEY, you will get an additional 10% off. You can only use one coupon though. They also have an annual Spring Sale but its getting hot here when thats going on, I do better with the Fall Sale in my zone.

http://www.santarosagardens.com/

I spent an hour on the SRG website, adding a half dozen grasses to my basket but in the end bought nothing. Everything I really wanted is not available now - very frustrating!

Rain interrupted my Stipa ichu project, but today was a beautiful windy day and I did a last mix and planted all five of my Stipa ichu. I think it looks pretty good. I'll take some photos tomorrow.

Here are a couple of photos of Stipa ichu planted in their big pots. Couldn't get the whole lineup of five because the direction of the sun was a problem so more later maybe.

And two in a row...

Finally decided to plant my potted Dasylirion longissima (Mexican Grass Tree) in place of the big recently divided Restio that was planted in front of my LR windows. Eventually, it too, will get too big for its spot, but hopefully it'll take many years. Like the Restio, it's normal habitat isn't among plants like the conifers featured in this bed, so it's a plant out of place in that sense but I'm no purist, that's what my garden is like and that's the way it will continue to be.. I've also managed to find a place for all six of my Sesleria 'John Greenlee" along the edges.

Yes I am lurking here. Very nice.

Yay, someone to cheer :-). It was a ridiculously big job for my aging body and I am so glad to get it done. Should I get some pansies or something similar to decorate all the empty space around each grass? It'll be spring before the Stipas will grow some and pansies do well here all winter.

That turned out nice and better yet, it looks like you are having fun with it. Now you get to sit back and admire the result.

I found a picture online of Bushy Bluestem last night that makes me even gladder I ordered 4. The photo is from Bluestem Nursery (photo credit to John Snowden).

Color update on new grasses: I planted the 3 new 'Blackhawks' big bluestem's in the same area with 4 'Red October' since they were out of the Red October. Red October is bright red/maroon and Blackhawks is very deep purple (wow!) & now I'm glad they were out. When these get more mature & tall I think the effect of having two types will be nicer. They are with Little Bluestem's going to purple and Blue Grama that is now completely dormant so they are bright blonde. In the same strip, the 'Northwinds are still green, just starting to go to yellow. They all look good together. I took out plants yesterday at the other end so the whole strip will be grasses with a few wildflowers for spots of color along with silver artemisia & blue prickly pear cactus and nothing taller than 4 or 5 ft.

I expect the new order from SRG today of the Bushy BS and three more 'Blackhawk". I barely got the Blackhawks in time, they are now sold out.

I'm planting the bushies next to a group of Sideoats Grama & Blue Grama + a clump of pink yucca so that will be blonde with copper in fall and winter with varying heights and enough form difference to separate them nicely.

I planted a group of Okie Bluestem's in front of Lindheimeri Muhly for that tall, deep russet red in front of blue going to wheat in winter and that is looking good, it'll be better next year when the bluestem's are more mature.

I'm having a lot of fun with the color pallet thing and I must say, the grasses all go good with cactus which makes easy visual problem solving. Yesterday I moved a good sized large padded spineless blue cactus in front of a grouping of the pinkish purple Los Luna Little Bluestem, it looks very nice, great contrast to the grasses.

We are still in the 80's and bone dry. I am having to deep water. No break in sight. Its working up to be a drab fall, leaves just falling off trees and not turning. I fear a lack of transition to cold and nothing will be hardened off. Its happened before.

I hear you TR, my chitalpa tree (planted this spring) is still pushing new leaves. It hasn't heard that we're into fall yet.

And here it's weird too, leaves are falling with hardly any fall color here, too.. Probably becaus five years of drought has left the soils very dry deep down. When I dig down to plant here, the soil is bone dry. I'm apparently not watering correctly. We are getting more rain today and tomorrow and hopefully next week, too, and I am so glad.

My Ratibida pinnata is finally pushing out yellow rays from its tight buds and it's almost the first of November. November? Really? I still have a few Echinaceas in bloom along with my ever blooming Penstemon Sour Grapes.

i just received a package of native California plants from Las Pilitas Nursery and they have an insert which was very informative. You have to first understand that most California natives survive our long dry summers without supplemental water, but in spite of that they have to be started right. This very informative all native nursery recommends watering down a full 18" deep any new plant site, then planting, then watering when the top 1" is dry for the first year. This keeps the root zone moist throughout instead of just at the surface and encourages deeply rooted plants that can survive dry spells better. Now to figure out how long I have to water to get the soil moist to a depth of 18" !!

They cancelled fall this year.

Its a three season year or as our priest who moved here from the NE says, Oklahoma only has two seasons per year---"Summer and Not Summer".

TR, you are definitely into Bluestems.....! Your color blending and color contrasting with the different grasses sounds very nice.

I've been wondering how you manage to handle and transplant cactus. All those thorns make me cringe in pain just at the thought of brushing against them, let alone moving them. Besides too many roses with thorns, I've succumbed to only one thorny plant, a blue Agave and every time I look at it I wonder how I'm going to pot it up.

Nah, I'm just into creating mass plantings and big on fall and winter interest, especially this time of year.

I don't usually transplant a whole cactus unless its small, most of them were started with a single pad. The one I moved has velvety smooth, spineless pads with no glochids. It had formed 12 good sized pads but was still not real heavy so I just dug out the roots and hand carried it to the new spot and laid it down carefully so as not to injure or detach a pad. Its a very upright thick type, mint green and soft to touch. I'd planted a pad by the wall up front just in case I wanted a big cactus later on.

You can move a spiny cactus, if its not too large, onto a piece of cardboard, drag to the spot and hold it in place with some thick layers of newspapers or an old piece of carpet while filling in soil around the base and roots, its easier with help but I have done it alone. Its not difficult, much easier than moving a shrub and I have two of those to do.

People often have a knee jerk reaction about cactus but they are not nearly as vicious as roses. I've never gotten scratched and bloodied up trimming cactus or working around them and can go sleeveless & not have to wear long pants for the next few days after working around them, unlike roses. Roses do nothing for me so I suppose if I need to put up with an armored plant (and there are several besides cactus) I choose cactus or agave because I like the looks of them. Trimming my Red Barberry shrub is way worse than any cactus. Trimming a cactus is a piece of cake.

Dump that agave out of the pot and then pick it up by the roots. You can use thick newspaper to hold the agave in place while refilling a bigger pot. I prefer them in the ground if possible where they can grow unrestricted. I've got several cold hardy agave but I planted them strategically. The color & texture is fabulous, they look wonderful with grasses.

Wantanamara has a field with grasses and large sculptural agaves she's working on, of course I'm jealous. She's much further south and can grow ones I can only dream about. She sent me seeds of Catclaw Acacia and its now a good sized plant. Now THAT is one dangerous plant because its nearly ripped me bald a few times, the huge O. englemanni prickly pear cactus behind it is much safer but hey, I like the delicate looks of it.

You make them sound so benign! I've never even touched a cactus., sort of like I don't want to touch a spider. I guess I ought to try because the way you described your spineless cactus as velvety smooth sounds quite attractive.

As a dog owner I've always avoided spiny cactus, agave, etc for fear of putting out an eye on my dog. Now that I could, I have no place to plant them. My usual problem of no room. But they wouldn't really fit in anyway, which is too bad because the Blue Agave I own is just beautiful.

I've heard this sort of thing over and over again on GW but I've always expected people interested in growing them would be few and far between, its the same for the grasses because most people are more interested in flowers. As for me, I like both grasses and cactus and thats what matters.

I should add that cactus + prairie grasses has allowed me to cover a lot of space on a very tight budget because I can increase plants for no cost easily and end up with a cohesive garden theme at the same time.

Returning to fall color.... I looked around my garden today and actually found quite a lot of fall color after all. Still, it's an odd fall because coloring up seems out of normal synch. My viburnums, for example, have zero fall color yet. Yet my Pin Oak dropped most of its leaves early without much color. Anyway, if interested, I posted some flower and fall color photos here:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4138393/lets-see-your-spectacular-fall-bloom?n=61

And here is one more I forgot to include, a decorative variegated Citrus Calamondin and a colorful Itea 'Henry's Garnet'. I like the Iteas a lot because they retain their colorful leaves all winter until new ones push off the old.

Seems we veered off ornamental grasses a bit. Amazing your pin oak completely dropped all its leaves while all your other plants are still leafed out, just turning or blooming, the leaves still looked green in the recent pictures you posted a couple weeks ago. I wonder if its diseased or something? All the oaks are still quite dense and green here but many trees are starting to shed some due to drought. We haven't had anything even close to a frost, leaves are green & holding on for the most part.

I made my last purchase of grasses. I ordered the last 8 Panicum 'Northwind' plants from SRG. The ones I have planted on the west are staying put after all, I changed my mind on that after watching them turn yellow which looks nice behind rde Bluestem. So I ordered these new one to put along the east side as a backdrop to the new colorful Big Bluestem's, Little BS and Blue Grama. I had to take out a large Yellow 8ft tall Bird of Paradise but thats just a bit of 'editing'. The whole area will look much better in mostly grasses with some wildflowers for color IMO and it gives me layers to look at all the way to the back without the tree blocking the view from the courtyard. I used a 20% off coupon and the whole lot only cost me $25 including shipping. That REALLY does do it for me this season.

I'm going to be pretty busy cutting back grasses come late winter..... I don't mind too much because its before the spring stuff starts and we have lots of nice days when any excuse to have to work on the garden is more than welcome but I am going to have to do it in sections, otherwise I don't have nearly enough trash container space for curb pickup.

I was actually thinking about how much work you have ahead of you every year when it comes to cutting down all your grasses. - a lot! And at some point, taking care of overcrowding. It's one reason (voles being the other) I went away from the big grasses as a major focus in my garden.

Even the mid-size grasses can be problematic for me, Pennisetum being the perfect example of a very deeply rooted grass that requires younger muscles than mine to dig out and divide. On the mere suspicion that Pennisetum 'Desert Plains' is bigger than Pennisetum 'Ginger Love', I am planning to discard Desert Plains in favor of Ginger Love. Meanwhile, here's a photo taken today of Desert Plains, originally from a 4" pot bought in mid-August. It does show a bit of color after all, and though I can't pick it out in this photo, it does have one bloom. Notice the Pin Oak leaves. I am finger combing my grasses almost every day.

Speaking of the Pin Oak....I estimate it shed half or more of its leaves several weeks ago and then it just stopped shedding leaves. Looking up into the canopy, I think about 75% of the leaves are still green, and of those that have color it is atypically weak. I think the weather is just too warm. Hopefully ,it's not diseased.

For contrast , heres a photo of our persimmon tree showing off its fall color.

We have managed to create a gazillion messages mostly unrelated to Pennisetum 'Desert Plains'. I don't really want to stop conversing, but perhaps it's time for a topic related to your grassy prairie garden.....?? Or maybe on Bluestems??

Can't resist talking about the perfect weather we are having for sprouting the seeds of the native fescue mix I've sown in various areas. It's been warm and raining off and on, or dampish. I am finally getting signs of green in the bare areas. Meanwhile, my forlorn summer stressed meadow areas that aren't bare have greened up and are looking so lush and attractive.

Otherwise, the open planting spaces under the newly limbed up Pin Oak are filled up with California natives (various Ribes, a Carpenteria, a Mahonia), and other babies also planted here and there (Rhamnus Tranquil Margarita, Keckiella cordifolia, Rhus trilobata, Penstemon centhrafolia Scarlet Bugler).

I've been struggling daily for weeks about what to do with THIS overgrown plant and THAT overgrown plant, etc that I don't have a place for and a couple of major epiphanies later, the plant swapping has fallen into place so perfectly that I want to start dancing, And, no, you don't want to see what me dancing would look like !! And lastly, I am waiting for the weather to turn colder so I can move a couple of larger conifers to new spots and I will be done with all the major stuff.

Then a few more decisions on which small grasses to choose as fillers for the area of the Pin Oak. and I am done for the season. Should I sprinkle around six or seven Deschampsia caespitosa? Sesleria autumnalis? More of my favorite Calamagrostis foliosa? Can't seem to make up my mind. Probably because I'm not familiar with the two former. And I'm worried I'll tire of the latter if I keep using it again and again.

I am really fond of Deschampsia cespitosa but I am removing it from my garden because it liked it way too much and reseeded with abandon. Young seedlings are easily scratched out but I had literally thousands of them. I will perhaps try it in a different spot with much leaner soil, though I think it more likely that I will just enjoy it in the fields since it is native here. Named varieties such as D. c. 'Goldtau' are reported to not reseed.

I adore my Sesleria autumnalis. It is a very compact and interesting grass in a quiet way. I like the way the "flowers" turn from white to black as they age, nice having both colours mixed. I feel this grass deserves much more respect than it gets.

I would absolutely grow C. f. if it were hardy for me.

Thank you for your comments which helped me make a decision!! I definitely don't want to deal with thousands of seedlings from the Deschampsia, so I'm going to choose Sesleria autumnalis. It reads like the almost perfect grass anyway and I love to try new grasses. it could only be more perfect if it were a native grass, but as I've said before, I'm not a purist.

Now to find some. Unfortunately, SRG is out until spring so I'll call on my local nurseryman again and hope he comes through. Otherwise, I'll probably have to wait until spring and order from SRG.

Meanwhile, here's something I found interesting. It comes from the website of San Marcos Growers, which my local nursery does wholesale business with. I will want the form that they grow.

"here in California flowering occurs much earlier in the in spring, at least for our form but notably there is more than one form of this plant in the nursery trade with some having coarser foliage and others with a rhizomatous (spreading) habit. Ours is a delicate fine-textured clumping grass that has become a favorite grass of many of our customers for making a natural meadow look. We have made comparison trials of this species sourced from several other nurseries and determined that Native Sons Nursery also grows this very nice form and calls it 'Campo Verde' to distinguish it from the larger slightly more coarse form sold by others. We received our original stock of Sesleria autumnalis in 1985 from Kurt Bluemel Nursery in Maryland and have been growing only this form ever since."

I have one plant of Sesleria autumnalis. It's a small 4" pot plant I bought from SRG a couple of weeks ago. I easily divided it into two pieces today. Let's see how quickly it can grow, after all it is a cool season grass, and I may be able to divide again a month from now and have four plants. Let's see....

Echo, you should really go into tissue culture (joke) :)

Will you fund me?? I thought so :-).

Many years ago i was lucky enough to get a tour of an orchid tissue culture operation. Pretty amazing. I'll have to be content with 2 becomes 4 and 4 becomes 8 and 8 becomes 16..... Oops, then I'll have too many. Twelve might be about right.

I can't easily find Sesleria autumnalis after all. So I'm going with its smaller and much easier to find relative, Sesleria John Greenlee. I found two at my local nursery and they've already become eight. Enough for now at least. Here's a photo of a nice hunky 1/4 division from the one gallon plant.

I had earlier added six Sesleria John Greenlee to the bed in front of my house and if I need more I can always divide some or all of them. They've grown quite a bit. Here they are in the foreground of my replacement for the big Restio, a Dasylirion longissima. Notice that I've also managed to pot up my Blue Agaves and even found a place for them.

Just found this thread while looking for a picture of the Calamagrostis foliosa that echolane mentioned recently in another post. What a great thread! There is a ton of useful information in here. I missed it last fall, possibly because of the subject. Pennisetums haven't interested me too much. I appreciate those big drifts of them in the Holt/Greenlee book, but it's not a look that fits KC in my view -- similar to what TR says above about Oklahoma.

You all make me quite envious though with all those smaller, dry-loving grasses. My experience has been that everything of that sort that I plant gets taller than advertised and flops. I had some blue grama in the hell strip whose stems were a full 3' high, or I should say 3' long as they flopped to the ground almost immediately.

My best, most upright grass has been a cultivar of Panicum virgatum (Cheyenne Sky). Little bluestem has been hit or miss. The most vertical ones (which might be Blue Heaven) are planted out in the buffalo grass yard, and the competition may be limiting their growth. Where they have plenty of bare soil around them they grow like crazy and flop at least partially.

I've got both Sesleria autumnalis and S. caerulea, but it's too early to tell how they'll perform in the long run. I keep almost buying more of the S. autumnalis, but it doesn't seem too smart until I've had more experience with it. That and I suppose I keep thinking I'm going to find a native alternative.

Nice to find you here, WoodsTea. I hope Tex will find you here, too, as she has so much more knowledge about the grasses than I do. Too bad this thread doesn't have a more appropriate subject header as it has strayed far off the header subject of 'Desert Plains'.

On the subject of 'Desert Plains' I'm happy to report that it is coming to life with lots of new green shoots. Spring is here for me when the grasses start greening up.

Pennisetum 'Ginger Love' is greening up too, as is Deschampsia cespitosa, while only one of my several Bouteloua 'Blond Ambition' is showing green today. No signs of life from my other dormant grasses, both Panicums, but they can't be far behind.