I'm right there with you. We've been trying to shore up our waterfront (on Puget Sound) for several years. If we don't do anything, trees will start to slide down. First biologists---eelgrass?? salmon anywhere in sight?? Permit $$$ just keep flowing, and now we're with the Army Core of Engineers. Can only work in a certain window of time, etc. It goes on and on.

You could always do what a neighbor did, and beg forgiveness rather than ask permission. And what he did was really bad --- he created a mortared stone wall to edge his pond!

We need all sort of permits and testing when we add trout to our pond, or algae eating catfish. So I feel your pain.

Is this a man-made pond? I remember seeing a photo of your pond, Annie. I don't get it. Does it adjoin a preserve or a wetland? Why can't you do work that needs to be done on private property? I'm with Mtn. It's easier to get forgiveness than permission, but maybe the cat's already out of the bag.

FYI, I'm not actually serious about that.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

My dad had to get a fish biologist b/c he had a tiny, tiny creek in his back yard which was causing erosion and he needed to build a retaining wall to prevent the swimming pool from falling into the creek.

The pond is in wetlands, was dredged from a swamp back in the 1940s and we've been maintaining it ever since. It is part of a river system so we have to go through wetlands and they are very fussy around here. I don't think they can stop us from maintaining the pond, but they sure can make life miserable.

Ermmm....I'm your friendly Environmental Regulator here. I literally just got back from visiting wetlands and stream violations today. And yes, I know the whole permitting process can seem to be overkill, but I promise that there is a good reason for it!

If the wetlands you're dealing with Annie have federally listed threatened or endangered species located around them or with the possibility of getting into the pond, then you're looking at a long, drawn out process with the Feds. I don't know the regulations in your area, but I advise you to first check with the regulators to see what might be required as far as permits or studies go.

The Army Corps here on the west coast doesn't regulate removal of material-only fill-so check to see if that is the case for you. If you dredge, you would have to dispose of the material outside the wetlands for sure. Better to find out who has jurisdiction and start with them-it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to get permission than forgiveness!

Jab65-eel grass is a very environmentally sensitive plant-highly regulated. You've also likely got a lot of listed (endangered or threatened) fish species (salmon) and harm of just one Coho can land you in jail! The EPA does not take kindly to harming listed fish. I know of one guy who faced criminal charges because he did some work on his streambank and killed some coho.

And the work periods are in place to protect fish...part of the violations I was checking on today involved people working in a stream outside the approved fish window.

Last year we went through a costly process to remove 6 large rocks adjacent to our dock at a NH lake. It's to enable safer and more secure docking of our small pontoon boat and safer access to launch our kayaks.

We had to hire a civil engineer (at great expense) fill out pages of paperwork, obtain notarized approval from all abutters, and schedule meetings with DES at the site. The process took so long that when the permit was finally granted in 2015 we'd missed our chance to have the work done.

We were dealing with serious medical issues with my Dad this spring and by the time we were able to make arrangements to schedule the job we learned the permit expired in May. DES would not extend it and we had to start all over again with permit applications, fees, etc.

Here we are, half a year later, and we haven't received our new permit. Calls to DES say "it's in the queue." The window of opportunity for us to remove the rocks is closing. Our 8 neighbors who had to be contacted -again, through certified mail to give their approvals- think we're crazy to play by the rules on this.

We are real "play by the rules" people and grateful that regulations to keep our lake pristine are in place. I feel bad for the DES folks who are so understaffed. BUT this system encourages people to go rogue and do things that are far more dangerous to the eco system than us pulling out several rocks.

Truth told, in our frustration with the delay we did consider the doing it/begging forgiveness route, but qualified contractors aren't willing to risk losing their licenses and/or being fined to do the work without a permit.

This tells me that people tend to DIY these types of things which means they're being done by hacks who can cause much more damage than a professional would.

Well, in this case, considering we just want to maintain what is, I would hope we'd get some support as it is far less disruptive to the existing wildlife than to have the pond disappear...

I wonder how many people the EPA sent to jail when it released mine waste into the Animus River in Colorado....

And to think I always wanted to have my own pond, or at least live on a lake :o

Well we had some good news. Our neighbors brought their dingy over and we sounded the pond and found it to be much deeper than we had feared. So we really only need to clean up the edges which will be a lot less expensive and far more permitable. Or so we hope.

neetsiepie: We have had state biologists out to our land and do not have any eel grass, endangered fish or salmon anywhere near our project Our son is with US Fish & Wildlife, and our DIL does geomapping for the state Dept of Ecology. I'm just saying how time consuming and frustrating it is to jump through so many overlapping hoops. We've been working for over 2 years, and in the meantime the bank is being compromised. We've been advised by some to let our wall fall down and get an emergency permit, but we really care for the environment and believe in doing what we can to keep things from moving into an emergency situation. It's like trying to move a mountain one teaspoon at a time.