Very interesting. Haven't seen this kind of testing in a while. Amy, you've earned your serious geek first class merit badge if you don't already have it!

The anomalous results with the AllClad pan are indeed puzzling. On my "stainless" A/C pans, the exterior metal is strongly magnetic all the way to the pans' top edges. Is your pan from one of All Clad's other lines? Any chance your A/C frypan has a warped base?

It is strange how some pots work. We have an Alessi teapot that works, but is really slow, replaced it with a cheapo off Amazon and it boils really quickly.

dbabrams - my "fastest" pot is the big thin pasta pot from the thrift store :)

jwvideo - the AllClad fry pan is this model: http://amzn.to/2jtnNrj -- I just bought it last week when I realized my T-Fal wasn't going to cut it. It is not warped. Looking at the 10" fry pan in detail now here is what I find: the flat base is 8" wide, but the outer-most ring is non-magnetic and visibly different. The magnetic center is only 7.25" wide. I think that solves the mystery of the All-Clad. Even though the hob is described as 7" to 11", I think it might need 8" to fully activate.

Hmmmm, that is AllClad's new "HA" line of annodized aluminum pans with a ferromagnetic slug in the base. You might be right about the Miele range's pan sensing being related to disk size although it also might be as much a a matter of the particular pan's induction slug being a bit light on magnetic mass for the sensors on the Miele range.

I am not a fan of the slug. It doesn't work much better than the much derided "induction plate". And yes, any pot detector is only going to find the iron/steel part and ignore non-clad aluminum.

The best pans for induction are cast iron or steel (I'd bet that your "thin" one is steel). Very good are clad which are optimized for induction (that's a big qualifier). There are many pans that are in the hey, it works category, but that's better filled by pans you have rather than those you have to buy. I've tried out a few of the slug based pans in stores and have found them inferior. Can you return the pan?

Looking at the test results of the All-Clad Fry pan on the smaller hobs it appears that it heats about as fast as I expect given its mass (within the limits of test accuracy), so it's possible that its slug is thick enough, but just doesn't cover the full width. If it's not full width, that makes it susceptible to underperforming if it's slightly off-center on a smaller hob - that's inevitable for a fry pan. For that reason I don't think it's worth messing with it when using induction. I'm may be reaching the same conclusion as plllog -- steel and iron mean that I won't have to worry about the size of the slug or having the pot slightly off-center.

I can't return the newly purchased pair of All-Clad fry pans, but I can give them to a sibling who would love to have them, so no worries there.

I found myself pondering your tests this morning as I was cooking my oatmeal on my induction cooktop in a small "slugged" Circulon Premier Pro non-stick annodized-aluminum saucepan. I'll offer the following to consider on whether to donate the A/C HA pans and what to replace them with.

First, I'm thinking I may like my "slugged" annodized Circulon pans better than plllog likes "slugged" pans because my induction cooktop seems
to dynamically scale power. Your test results tell me that the Miele induction range does not scale power to pan size. What I
call "dynamic scaling" is this: when using a smaller pan on a larger
burner (say a 7"inch pan on a burner with a nine-inch field diameter),
most induction burners will output proportionally less power because
there is less mass to absorb it but some induction burner electronics
will scale the power up to deliver more of it when using a smaller pan. Comparing your test results for the 6" DH and 7" A/C pans with those for the 9" large pasta pot and the 8" iron LeCrueset pan, it looks like the Miele does not dynamically scale. That would seem to cause underperforming" of the smaller slug-based pans on the big burners as well as when off-center on the smaller ones. This may help you in agreeing with plllog about going for steel and iron pans.

Second, a point on the slugged-base frypans: there may be a trade-off between speed and power with a more evenly heated pan for frying and sauteing. Most of us rarely need full power for frying and sauteing on induction. The slugged-base pans may take a bit longer to heat up than, say, thin steel pans or clad pans. That could be because the steel slug is conducting heat into the somewhat greater mass of the annodized aluminum body. However, that anodized aluminum is likely to heat evenly and respond well to changes in heat much the way a clad pan will do. What we want from a fry pan is mostly evenness of heat distribution and responsiveness. A speed-to-boil test is not a good test of this kind of functioning. (For example, you might not want to saute on the base of the big thin #1 stockpot even though it heats up a lot faster than other pans.) A slug in the base of a heavy-ish annodized aluminium pan is supposed to give you heat distribution and even heating as does a "clad" steel pan (whichl encapsulates the aluminum slug between inner and outer layers of steel.) You might want to experiemnt with some frying/sauteing on your Miele range before you donate the AllClad HA pans.

Third, as it happens, I can directly compare a slug-based annodized induction frypan with a clad non-stick fry pan. My "slugged" Circulon NS pan set included an 8" fry pan and I received a non-stick 8" AllClad pan (a promotional freebie that showed up with in a shipment of some A/C stainless factory seconds some years ago. Haven't noticed any particular difference in speed to usable heat on induction, but, then, I never paid attention to it either. What I have noticed is that Circulon seems to me to be a bit more even and more responsive than the A/C NS pan when, say, frying eggs or bacon. However, the Circulon pan seems to weigh about 20% more than the A/C, which might account for somewhat more even heating. OTOH, the A/C NS pans do have a lifetime warranty (kind of like a pan subscription service) while the Circulons do not. Of course, this won't matter if you don't like non-stick pans or want to avoid them altogether.

Fourth, on what to replace the two HA fry pans with, there can be a lot of considerations including budget and how and what you want to use them for. Generally speaking I'd say iron and steel fry pans can be relatively less expensive but tend to heat unevenly with hot spots unless we spend a long time preheating them. For fry pans in the sizes you want, you likely will get better service from a clad pan because they will heat more evenly. Good clad cookware can be expensive, and sometimes a whole lot more expensive depending on what you buy, when you buy it and from whom you buy it.

Since you've already tried All Clad (meaning are okay with the handle design), you might want to look at the brand's induction capable "clad" lines. You can save some with seconds and irregulars --- check out the bi-annual factory outlet sales and/or the cookwarenmore.com site. Also, with what you've invested in the Miele range, you might want to consider a couple of skillets from Zwilling's "Sensation" line or its Demeyere subsidiary's "Proline." Judging by the piece I recently acquired, they seem to be optimized for induction, do an excellent job of even heating, and the surface polishing (tradenamed "Silvinox") seems to make it significantly easier to clean than my stainless All Clad skillets. Look for clearance pricing, factory seconds and irregulars at the Zwilling USA web site..

Thank you jwvideo. Do you know if the Zwilling Sensation that you mention is 7-ply or 5-ply? And is there any reason to think they would behave differently with respect to induction?

As per your excellent suggestions I will hold onto the AC fry pans and compare them to others that I'll borrow from family and friends. I'll report back over time as I learn more and form more opinions. - Amy

I believe the Sensation and equivalent Demeyere Plus are 5 ply.

Do I think Demeyere's 7-ply ("triple-induc" technology wih
"silvinox" finish ) pans are better? Well, now that I have had one for month ... um, well, yeah, they actually are pretty much as good as they are cracked up to be. If you have any interest in a burner-spanning griddle (which is what I got), Demeyere is offering a clearance-priced sale of factory-second 7-ply 21"x13" "Plancha/teppenyaki/gridddle" onthe ZwillingUSA site. If memory serves, that size will fit on the right side burners of your Miele induction range.

Thanks jwvideo for the lead on that griddle. Great price. I just ordered it, and I'll be on the lookout for deep discounts on other items.

Another vote for Demeyere. I have to admit, I've never cared for All-Clad, though it's very popular.

Recently, we did up a big lot for the oil frying holiday. I had both my Demeyere frying pan (I don't remember the name of it) and LeCreuset enamelled cast iron braiser going. The clad heated a lot faster, of course. The cast iron was more even, though both were good. One thing about cast iron for frying is that once it's thoroughly heated (and, like an oven, that takes longer than when it's merely hot), it doesn't cool down easily with the addition of food. The clad, again as expected, was much more variable.

The problem with the slug is that the return time is just as great as the heating time. One issue with some clads, however, is that there can be a whine created by the layers heating at different rates, or something like that. This is generally only heard by young people, and maybe animals, but it is annoying to both.

Amy,: please let us know how the griddle/plancha works out for you or does not work out. I stumbled
across these things in a couple of chowhound threads --- which, frankly,
can initially strike some (lke me) as being a bit on the
snootier-than-thou side of things --- but my plancha/griddle has worked
much better for me than expected, which is saying something.

Plllog: not only is AllClad popular, but I've been pretty happy with my A/C pans, too. :>)

But, to get serious for a moment, I agree that deep fat frying in any aluminum pan can be problematic, whether slugged or not. . My experience is that that deep oil seems to have compartively slow recovery times when deep fat frying in all aluminum pans (not just the slugged ones). It isn't unworkable, just seems undesireably slow unless you know to maximally crank the heat and closely watch the temps.

It seems to me that this is a consideration for pans bigger than the smallish "HA" pans that Amy bought. Personally, I think any 8 or 10 inch frypan (what Amy apparently has in A/C's HA line) is way too small for any deep fat frying. My experience is that the smaller pans are fine for low or shallow fat frying, or sauteing, or most stir frying.

Also, I want to second what plllog said about preheating cast iron. So, so true in my experience. I've had some Lodge and LeCrueset dutch ovens for, oh, maybe three decades or so. Ironically enough my LC pot was even called an "oven" when I bought it back before the turn of the century. (Does that certify me as chronic old fart?) . I think the CI pans actually take longer than an oven to preheat to even-ness.

In any event, my experience exactly tracks what plllog said. Once thoroughly preheated, cast iron (and carbon steel) can't be beat for heat retention for searing and deep fat frying. Within the last year, Cooks Illustrated/ATK apparently reached the same conclusion. They have been recommending preheating CI skillets in the oven for an hour before putting them on a stove top to sear. meat (Amy, your Miele oven, btw, should do a great job at this.)

I also second what plllog says about a somewhat greater potential for noise from clad (and "slugged" pans, too.) I would add that It is not just pets and the young (with young persons' hearing in frequencies above 15kHz) that can be annoyed. Clad pans on my induction cooktop have annoyed friends with digital hearing-aids. Apparently, digital hearing aids are (or can be) equalized in ways that really amplify certain annoying frequencies.

Reporting back on the Demeyere 7-ply Stainless Steel Plancha Griddle that jwvideo initially mentioned. I've had it for several weeks and I love it. Mine is a factory second, bought on clearance as jwvideo suggested: http://www.zwillingonline.com/cookware-clearance.html

It was a second because there was a visible ding on one of the edges. We tidied up the ding in the shop and it is a non-issue.

I've only used it once to span two burners, and it worked just fine in that context. I heated it very slowly for 15 minutes before I cooked a big batch of crab cakes, and the cakes cooked evenly, even those that were not directly above a hob. I've used it almost every night to roast potatoes or vegetables or fish. It is beautiful and cleans up easily. A dinner guest thought it was a serving platter and was very surprised that I put it in the oven. To be honest, I use it instead of the nice roasting pans I used to use because it is so beautiful that I like handling it and looking at it.

I liked it enough that I bought a Zwilling Sensation 5-ply 3 quart saute pan from the same clearance/seconds page. I'm very pleased with it, and it is certainly my best pot.

I also bought a Staub Cast Iron 12" Grill Pan from the clearance page. But it has 5mm of warp in the base. That is not a visual imperfection but a substantial problem, especially for a glass cooktop. I haven't yet contacted them about returning it; in theory the clearance items are not returnable, but I'm none-too-happy because this imperfection certainly affects the product's performance.

I'm not a cookware geek, and I go into brain overload when I visit Sur la Table or other local stores. So I'm very appreciative of the suggestion to look at the Sensation line. I'll keep an eye on that clearance page and may buy one or two more pots in that line.