A Busy Winter Ahead

9 years ago

After two years of agonising over whether to remove 3 established roses that are badly infected with die-back, I've finally decided to remove them. The decision has been made harder because they still flower pretty well.

This photo only shows Crepescule, which is in the middle of the three. On the far side is a Ms Tillier, and in front is Comtesse du Cayla. There are other reasons I want to remove them too.

Ms Tillier has small blooms in Summer, which I put down to him being short of water, as all three are on the edge of a north facing raised terrace, which bakes in the Summer heat. I had another in a different spot which didn't have small blooms at any time. Also his thorns are more that I want to deal with these days.

Crepescule isn't growing strongly enough to have much bronze new growth, which gave a lovely tapestry effect, and the blooms are not a particularly attractive colour except in Winter and Early Spring. The rest of the time they're somewhat mustard, with poor form.

Comtesse du Cayla is 'a crispy critter' as Adam Harbeck put it! She burns almost as soon as she opens. Another rose whose name I forget is near her, and will also be coming out.

I've ordered their replacements today: Anna Olivier, Mlle Francisca Kruger (or what's sold as MFK) and Lady Hillingdon. All of which I'll plant further in from the edge of the terrace. LH will be next to an established Mutabilis, which I think will look ok. I have another Anna Olivier and she seems to cope better with the heat than most, and LH is an old Sydney stalwart. MFK is new to me, but I think will blend in, and hopefully do well.

I've also ordered Mrs B. R. Cant for a spot under the Jacaranda where a large Dichroa appears to be dying. A couple of people on HMF have rated her as excellent in shade, and I've been wanting to find a spot for her for a long time.

So come the beginning of Winter (June here), I'll be in destruction mode. I know the die-back will be in the soil, but I'm not removing it, as presumably it will be through the whole bed, and that's just too much work!!!!!!!.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might minimize the risk?

Trish

Featured Answer

portlandmysteryrose

9 years ago

Titian, if you have rose replant concerns, maybe Marlorena can speak to the problem. I believe she's mentioned it.

If the dieback you refer to is similar to what we struggle with here in the PNW, perhaps you have verticillium wilt? It shows up in our soil and causes shrinking foliage and blooms and then branch dieback. I've seen it take down mature trees in time. Lilacs, roses and many other shrubs plus a variety of perennials and annuals are susceptible. The monumental task of complete soil removal can help if a manageable bed space is the target. (I don't blame you for sidestepping that laborious course of action!) Otherwise, it's recommended that replacement plants are resistant species.

However, I have had some success with digging a large hole, removing the old soil and bagging it for disposal, sterilizing my shovel, filling the hole with clean soil and planting a healthy susceptible shrub with undamaged roots since the wilt enters the roots and spreads upward. I'd keep your roses well watered and the ground cleared of debris where the fungus can multiply. I've also read that in warm regions you can put down black plastic for a month or two prior to planting and essentially bake the fungus to death. Like you, I'm not keen on removing soil from large expanses of garden, so one or both of those shortcut approaches would be my preferred method(s).

In my experience, roses can survive incredible challenges, even formerly wilt infected beds. Your new teas are lovely choices, and I wish them well! Mrs. BR Cant is a classic and I'd grow her, too, if I lived in your climate. From across the Pacific, I'm cheering you on with your winter chores! Carol

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Comments (7)

nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
9 years ago
Trish, I thought your dieback problem was due to lack of water during a drought. I've never heard of dieback being in the soil. Are you referring to rose replant disease? Whatever that is, we don't have it here, thankfully. I don't envy you having to remove large plants. I know I'm kicking The Prince out of my garden. I'm going to see if I can get an Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg grown from oldrosarian's budword that she donated to Palatine in Canada. I wish I had suggestions about the dieback problem. I'm not even vaguely familiar with it. Watch your back! Diane
titian1 10b Sydney thanked nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
titian1 10b Sydney
Original Author
9 years ago
Diane, ha! The die-back was probably due to lack of water, but I thought, as it is a fungus, it would be all around? I hope you get your A G v H - she looks a beauty. Trish
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comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
9 years ago
Isn't what we call die-back (in roses, anyway) what Americans call canker?
titian1 10b Sydney thanked comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
titian1 10b Sydney
Original Author
9 years ago
Comtesse, you're right. I can't remember the proper name of canker I came to the conclusion it was - the common name is brand canker.

Carol, thanks for your input, and your cheering on! I need it! I've not heard of verticillium wilt, but will look it up and see if there are any parallels. The black plastic idea sounds good. Replacing the soil is extra hard in this case as the new soil would need to be carried down 60 or more steps, and the old soil would need to be carried down another 35, to be dumped at the bottom of the garden.

Thanks again,

Trish
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
9 years ago
I wish you the best of luck, Trish. Not a fun job, but if you're not happy with the roses you have or their performance, if you're anything like me it will forever bother you. I didn't have great luck with MFK but it wasn't in the best spot, and the flowers are very pretty.

I'm worried about my Le Vesuve specimens, who are losing their full appearance due to increasing dead branches underneath. They get plenty of water and mulch, so I don't know what their major problem is. Getting to all that dead stuff underneath is best left to those who have a death wish.
titian1 10b Sydney thanked ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
titian1 10b Sydney
Original Author
9 years ago
Ingrid, I suspect I'm very like you - it will forever bother me! Another reason I have been putting it off, is that that bed will of course look very bare for a couple of years. And I have onion weed galore here, and I will unfortunately spread it like mad when I dig. Impossible to capture all those tiny bulblets!

I had a feeling I'd read on here that MFK was not a good 'do-er', as my lovely mother-in-law used to say. But that was the only rose I could get from the nursery I buy from that seemed to fit the colour scheme. I would have loved to get Clementina Carbonieri, but it's not available here. I'm not mad on LH, but she does well here, and the foliage is pretty.

Good luck with your Le Vesuves. I don't have one, but have read what thorny monsters they are. I dread getting under 2 Marie van Houttes I have, but I doubt they're a patch on LV for tearing one apart.

After all you have done for your roses, it seems very unfair!