Hoping one of you experts will answer soon as these plants are fast declining. Pulled off more of these just this morning (even worse looking) and they weren't like this last nite. I just sprayed with a fungicide but have no idea what this nasty thing is. I'm tempted to pull one of them up by the roots and inspect. Anyone?

So, I did pull up and look at roots. Pic below. Things looked fine. Soil is between moist and damp. The plant pictured is the one in which things seem to start and now leaves falling off more severe. There are a dark spots spreading up from the bottom of each leaf like it's coming internally. The stem of this and all affected plants are firm- no signs at all of rot.

So in my never ending search for how to save my poor plants I took them all outside and flooded them with rainwater from my barrels. It's the last thing I can think of doing unless someone else has an idea. Now have plants separated in 3 areas with three areas of T5HO lights- those infected with The Blob, those recovering from spider mites, and the youngish ones that look to be healthy.

Nancy

I agree with K.. My first thought from a few of the pictures was mildew or sooty mold on the leaf.. The overall picture of your set up ( which looks awesome ) shows that the trees look very healthy for being inside and under artificial light!

You mentioned that your soil was moist and your roots looks white and healthy.. I wouldn't check any other containers.. Let them enjoy the rest of the winter as is.. They honestly are doing quite well for this time of the season, Nancy!!

You mentioned that you sprayed with a fungicide.. Make sure you spray when the lights are not on.. That way they won't have any reaction to the lights. I see you are using the orange blue staggered too!! Looks great..

i wouldn't worry to much as long as the new growth is looking healthy. We do have old leaves that will fall off.. I do understand why you are questioning the look of the leaves, but I wouldn't worry to much.. Remember to allow your soil to dry out a bit before watering again.

They looks awesome for February in Oregon!! Great job!!!!

Laura

Laura and K,

K, your words are encouraging. Was freaking out as you could see and calming down. As you've told me and others this is a learning process and I'm still at the starting line. Watching the new leaves, and things still look a little sketchy, but will be patient.

Laura, thank you too for your encouragement, and all the kind words about how things look. You mentioned sooty mold or mildew. Did some reading about those and black spot, and the pictures of black spot look so much like mine. And I saw your post from awhile ago about anthracnose diseases. Some of those pictures similar to my plants. The recommended treatment is copper fungicide so gave them a treatment this morning.

The other thing that K already knows is that I moved all my plants from a loft to basement about 3 weeks ago which explains a lot. I bleached everything down twice and put up protective heavy tarps on ceiling floor and walls. The humidity has been measuring between 45-50% and where the plants were in the loft was 30%. Thought it was wonderful to have the humidity so high but obviously not, probably too many lingering spores. Have an older dehumidifier down there today and it's only keeping at at 45%, so off to buy a new one today. I suppose an air purifier would help but with an expenditure like that husband would insist they go back up in the loft which is space challenged. We might as well have a baby at our advanced ages for the costs.

I always look for Arctictropical's posts as he has such a great basement setup and now would love to know how he manages humidity/spores. Hasn't posted for awhile.

It's a challenge but with both of your insight feel this is manageable. Thanks once again to you!

Nancy

K and Laura,

Arghhhh. Leaves are turning black with those tiny pin like punctures in a matter of hours. I check leaves in the morning and by afternoon ones that are green have turned into black/brown pinpointed misery. The plant pictured about lost all it's leaves in 2 days and the 1-2 inch leaves trying to sprout turn black and fall off. That plant looks like it's headed for the grave. All the plants seem to have some form of this. It has spread so rapidly.

If you say stay calm and just watch I will. And hope that the one dying doesn't presage things to come.

Nancy

I know you are worried and it seems to have progressed rapidly, Nancy.. I would let the soil dry out and not let it get to humid.. I wouldn't spray around the lights and then place them under... It may have been to many chemical in a short amount of time.. They might have a mold ( sooty ) mold and also a chemical burn at the same time.. Just a guess.. Let the leaves fall.. And collect and discard. See what happens and keep us posted. I honestly think it's the moisture and then rinsing again, bringing them inside under lights with spray of different elements. It natures way of shedding leaves that aren't useful anymore.. Remember, they will grow more leaves. Sometimes when they are growing well, we need t o let alone and let them grow .

i would give them time and see if they can adjust. Don 't get to worried yet, Namcy...

Laura

Thanks Laura. Appreciate all your words and help especially because I know you have so much going on with your sweet mum. I really will back off and just watch and wait. And try not to worry.

Nancy

Just thinking about you, Nancy!! How are they doing this week?? Limit water so they aren't moist and you could remove those leaves that are a problem..

I'm just checking in to see how they and you are doing!! ;-)

laura

Hi Laura,

Sad to say plant that I pictured above, Waimea, is dead. It was a luxuriantly leafed and healthy plumeria 10 days ago. Scarily my twelve biggest plumeria all show the same signs the Waimea did- same black leaves with tiny punctures.

I check stems every day and that one has been perfect. But did the pin test up and down on it today. With no latex exuding, found brown inside top to bottom. I checked the roots 5 days ago and did the pin test and all was fine. My other big plumerias have leaves that look the same as the Waimea's sadly, and getting worse.

But....besides the twelve big plumerias have a few seedlings that are struggling but appear a little better. And several cuttings rooting. I could take one or two dying but if all of the ones that are affected take a nosedive- ugghhhhh.

Turning on some aloha music. Maybe the coconuts and grass skirt too.

Hope things went well with your mum today :) Saw an adorable pic of her here- she is the one that handed down your loving and caring self.

Nancy

Sorry about your plants! I have a J4 that I'm a little concerned may be doing the same thing. Older leaves have some brown spots coming up.. is this how your problem started out? (Larger top leaf has saw dust on it, so no need to diagnose that one).

So Sorry to read this. One of my millennial staffers introduced me (an X'er) to a phrase a some years ago which may do you some good....Its time to temporarily put down the chemicals and "Rage Quit" the immediate and intensive care. Let them dry out and let the chemicals naturally break down.

Damaged leaves stay damaged until they fall off. The new growth is where we can watch and see how a plant is doing. As long as it produces leaves or the tips stay green during hibernation then generally the plant will survive whatever is going on. There are some additional circumstances which may alter that statement but its a good general rule.

I really dont think this is a Rust issue which looks like this on the underside of the leaves:

And looks yellow turning to black spots and leaf edges. This Dean Conklin had Rust All Over last year. It dropped the leaves and was far from fatal.

I don't have any mite or thrip damage pics on my laptop but it generally has the same yellow spotty appearance on to upper surface of the leaves.

Appreciate it K :) Have heard some other choice words from my millennial garden kids that are stronger than "Rage Quit", but yours are more appropriate for a granny.

You know that black punctate dot thing and that spread so rapidly on the leaves was there before I even started using chemicals- even before the neem oil, so not entirely sure a chemical burn. Have a daughter-in-law who is a master gardener who put me in touch with one of her buddy MG's who is a supposed plumeria expert. He examined and said it is a bacterial issue probably related to moving to the basement. Gave me the same version of your fine instructions and said lowering the humidity for awhile should help. Lost another plumeria besides the first Waimea, and a few others are looking sketchy.

But added a dehumidifier and about half the new leaves are looking good. As you and Laura and so many others have said before, and as you demonstrate in your post above, these guys are survivors and final outcome will be just fine. The same daughter-in-law sent me three cuttings from MPG for when this is all over, and husband surprised me with nice gift certificate for same :) Feeling positive!

Thanks once again for all your usual kindness and concern.

Nancy

Chris- how are your plants doing? Do they have the blackness that has the tiny pin punctures all over? Mine would be green and fine, and then two hours later covered with the stuff and drop. Little latex droplets preceding it. The leaves on yours look similar but not sure without a close up. Hope they're doing OK.....

Haven't lost anymore plants- just three. The black pin punctures are subsiding and more new green leaves than black sick ones. Just what K said would happen. Thought all was lost when they started dying. The master gardener who also grows plumeria sent pics of another Pacific Northwest plumeria grower's plants with leaves that looked identical. She had recently moved everything to a basement too- basements here are swamps.

Followed that MG's advice. The humidity is between 30-35% and no misting or watering until it disappears. And despite the wall, floor, ceiling bleach treatments I did before moving to the basement there was still bacteria in the air, or enough mold to weaken. But again as K said they are resilient, and gonna be ok!

Thanks again to K and Laura.

Nancy

Hey, they are actually doing really good. I have had them all outside the last 4 days. We have been getting into the low 80s with lots of sunshine. On the j4 many new leaves are coming out and don't seem to be affected. So I think I'm in the clear. I have a desert sunrise shooting out an inflo... Pretty excited about that! Glad you have only lost 3, tho I wish you hadn't lost any and I hope you don't lose any more! Happy growing!

Chris

Chris,

Please post the pic of the Desert Sunrise when it blooms. So glad to hear that all is well with your plumerias. Best wishes.

Nancy

Hi Nancy,

Glad to read good news and you have a MG local resource as well as all of us on the forum. An experienced person who has the same conditions as you is always a fantastic person to get advice from. I think you are on the right track as far as attacking the humidity and damp conditions.

Here are some pictures which may help you interpret what you see. In my climate I mostly deal with mites, thrip, and rust. If i do get black spots on the leaves it so late in the year I don't do anything but wait until they fall off.

Mites doing what they do to blooms.

the white spots in the image below are mite or thrip damage but not seriously impacting anything. I probably didn't do much more than rinse the blooms off with a garden hose using high volume/low pressure.

Here is another image of rust covering the bottom of the leaves and the ultimate destruction of the leaf. This was in October so it really wasn't worth doing much more than controlling it.

An example of a plant coming back into health after using a 3 in 1product for a series of weeks. You can see the new growth is much more vibrant and there are no leaf spots in it. However the old growth still shows the damage.

K.

Hi Nancy,

You are always so kind.. Thank you. I have had my hands full and I try and poke my head in the forum when I can.. Thinking about you and your trees!!!

I am so sorry to hear about your Waimea.. It certainly sounds like you keep a close eye on your babies and I agree that it sounds like it's the moisture levels in your soil as well as the humidity.. Sounds like you have found a local that is helping you with proper levels.. I often think about Bill giving advise and him saying to not be a " Mother Hen" sometimes the best advise is to not constantly watch and mess with the trees.. i know you worry and love them...

Kevin ( Artictropical) does have a great basement setup..and I'm sure if he's around, he will respond. I'll see if I can find him for you.

Sending you much support and warm hugs to you..

Laura

Thanks so much Laura. I'm learning from you and K that it won't be my first case of the blues about my plumeria. Somehow I had the beginners idea that my Mother Hen-ness was going to prevent me from ever having a pest/disease problem. Lesson learned. Once everything comes in all nice and I fill up the space that the several that I lost occupied, I'll post some pics of my new less humid space.

Very best and hugs back at you!

Nancy

K....awesome photos. Again appreciate the pics of of some not so pretty plants at their saddest. And their post treatment or self recovery. I'm a nurse and any of my "patients" declining is an immediate rapid action with an expected quick positive outcome. Plumeria's vital signs improve much more slowly I'm learning. It must make you shake your head a bit seeing people like me get hysterical and do a ghost dance over their plants.

Thank you so much.

Nancy