Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Sometimes seedlings outgrow early problems. Sometimes they don't.

I have one group of tomato seedlings that's not doing well this year, and most of them are from one source, though I haven't gone back and looked at all the seed packets and verified that. (I don't really need to, as I'm pretty sure all the sickly seedlings are from one source.) It is a favorite seed company of mine, and they probably do grow their own seed or have local contract growers as opposed to sourcing their seeds from international seed wholesale producers. So, I suspect issues with the seedlings may correlate to that company's weather in their area last year when the seeds were being grown. It doesn't mean I write off purchasing from that company again, but I'll keep an eye on how the next batch of seedlings I raise from their seeds perform. Sometimes if you suspect seeds are carrying a disease, you can soak the seeds in a bleach-water solution before planting and not have the same problems with the sanitized batch.

If some of these sickly seedlings don't shape up, I'll toss them and either buy replacements or just have less variety on the tomato grow list than I had planned for.

All my dwarf tomatoes are in the sickly group that I'm probably going to toss, and for many people, that's an instant ID of which seed company's seeds have produced plants that are struggling this year.

Dawn

I used to soak all purchased seeds in clorox after I had several disease issues. I have soaked some of my seeds when I saved them but haven't in a while. In fact haven't saved any seeds in 3 years. And if I could of found what I like to grow might not of this year. I'm starting some seeds 10 years old so it will be interesting how they germinate if they do. I have had decent results in the past with old seeds. I have soaked them to help revive them but didn't this year. Time will tell. I just hope varieties like Randy's Brandy, County Agent and Cowlick's Brandywine all germinate a few.

Kim, I'm sorry you're struggling with those, especially since you go to market with your returns. I hope you have the room and opportunity to start some more or that they grow out of it. It is curious how they're all located to a single source. I've a few that are weak from old seed, but I'm just waiting and watching. Sometimes they reach a point where I cannot tell there was ever and issue.

Interesting, Kim. My cherry tomato seedlings were the first to come up and are the biggest, currently. Those were Chadwick Cherrys. . . but I didn't know enough to find you all soon enough for recommendations this year. . . have made copious notes and will know, next year!

My strongest healthiest plants are my saved seeds from porter, yellow pear and cherry. The porters are double size and strength of any other.

Nancy, Chadwicks Cherry will grow fine here. I grew it last year. I have just decided I like bigger cherries. Large Red Cherry, Black Cherry are go tos. I'm trying Amy's Apricot this year (how could I pass that up?)

You could NOT pass it up, I agree! Perfect. Good to know about Chadwicks. Some of the little ones who come visit love the little tomatoes! And I didn't even know it! I'll have to put a couple in the flower bed next to the porch. I spose they're indeterminate. . . lol. No matter, I'll cage them up.

For the little ones you could grow determinate tomato plants in pots, or even compact indeterminates in big pots. This is just a way to squeeze in more fruit down at a level where the kids can easily pick the tomatoes themselves. Sweet Baby Girl is a really good one, and Juliet, a compact indeterminate, makes a gazillion 2" long x 1" wide fruit (bigger than a cherry, smaller than a paste tomato) per plant.

Swallowtail Garden Seeds has an outstanding selection of determinate tomato plants that produce bite-sized tomatoes. One year I grew about 15-20 of these plants all mixed together in a cattle feeding trough so Tim could walk out our back door and pick handfuls of bite-sized tomatoes for his salads to his heart's content. I really liked Cherry Falls and Apricot Dreams. Red Profusion and Yellow Profusion were cute little plants that produced well, and it seems like I also grew Rambling Red Stripe, Rambling Gold Stripe, Tumbling Tom Red and Tumbling Tom Yellow, and a very small plant called MegaBite that produced big 4-6 oz. fruit on a plant that was maybe 18" tall. It produced heavily too.

Now that I mentioned Swallowtail, I'll link them. Do not blame me if visiting this webpage makes you order seeds! Enabling is what I do best....and Swallowtail ships really, really, really quickly.

Swallowtail Garden Seeds

Haha! Oh DAWN! Oh yeah, I definitely could use a few more tomatoes! Next year, next year! I'm going to put that note in my online gardening journal. I love the idea of putting a bunch in a feeder tank. Knew we should have bought the one we saw a couple weeks ago.

Meanwhile, gotta go buy some grow bags.

What a gorgeous day for watching seedlings pop up inside and outside!

Oh dear you have done it again.

Tomatillos. Are they just difficult? About half of my seed have germinated. They don't look great at all. They are leggy and skinny and have tiny seed leaves. What is the deal with tomatillos? This is my third attempt.

It's my thing. That thing I do. Educating. Encouraging. Enabling. Hee hee hee. Seriously, is there anything more convenient than containers just outside the back door with tomatoes?

We had a bad fire today. I really had to move fast to get all the plants that were hardening off moved back inside and out of the sun before I left for the fire because I didn't want for them to be out in the sun too long. I had to get them watered too as they were dry when I brought them in, one hour ahead of the planned end of today's hardening off. I am getting too old to move that fast! Now I'm worried about the hardening-off schedule tomorrow and Thursday because tomorrow is likely to be worse than today and then Thursday is supposed to be even worse.

Our skies are filled with smoke from prescribed burns. I hate it. If I had wanted to live with poor air quality I would have moved to a big city.

The good thing about the next few hot days is that maybe it will dry up the mud. A lot of the firefighters had trouble with driving in very wet sand (aka mud) today, but as far as I know, nobody got stuck.

They keep raising our high temperature for Thursday. On Sunday they said our high would be 79 on Thursday. Since then, they've raised it all the way to 83. Ugh. Too hot. I won't put plants out to harden off on Thursday because the combination of that heat and strong wind just would be too much. Even though the seedlings I'm hardening off are a pretty good size, I don't think they could handle that heat plus wind gusting into the upper 20s. Plus, I don't want to deal with having to hustle them back indoors in a hurry if the pagers go off.

We got home just barely in time to herd the last of the poultry into the coops and lock them up securely for the night. I'm thinking that on Thursday, maybe I shouldn't let them out to free range at all. Here is it planting season/fire season all at the same time and we have insanely hot and windy weather. I'm actually hoping for a return to cooler conditions for the sake of the seedlings I'm hardening off outdoors. On Friday, I believe I'll get my wish.

Tomatillos are that way. They love heat though and will do better if you grow them on in really warm conditions.

Sorry you're having to deal with fires and potential fires, Dawn. Our chickens put themselves up at night, but they obviously can't close their own door. Nothing should be out tonight at our house. The coyotes are so close. The cat wants out, but I made her stay in.

And that is a pain having to take a break during the hardening off process. For me, it might be both Wednesday and Thursday too. Wednesday because I leave the house early and won't be home until dark. Thursday if our situation is the same as yours--windy and hot. Hoping you don't have to put out fires.

Usually I can work out the chicken thing, but I'm worried about Thursday. I've actually come home from a distant fire (about 15 miles away) before to close up the coops at sunset, but I only did it because we had used up so much ice and so many drinks that we had to come back to the station to reload. We also made coffee---so we stopped at the station, turned on the coffee maker, ran home and closed up the coops, and then went back to the station to load of more ice and more cases of drinks. My friend, Frances, with whom I do Fire Rehab has pets too, and sometimes if we've been gone all day, we'll stop long enough to let her dog and ours outside to use the bathroom and then put them back inside again. It is preferable to coming home and finding puddles on the floor.

If we load up the vehicle right, we can get about 20 cases of bottled water and Gatorade in the back of the surburban, in addition to all the stuff we have in there, but it takes a while to load that many cases. By the time the drinks were loaded up, we had coffee finished to pour into thermoses. The firefighters always are grateful for coffee when day turns to evening at a wildfire and temperatures drop, but I never told them that the reason we went all the way back to our station that night had just as much to do with chicken coops as with their need for coffee. (grin)

Most nights, Tim is coming home from work around sunset (except in January when sunset is so early) and he can close up the coops when he gets home. That will be the case Thursday, so I only have to kinda worry about them today. I was thinking he'd still be out of town, but then I remembered (lol, because he told me last night) that he'd be home from this trip tonight. He won't necessarily be home before dark on Thursday, but perhaps only 30 minutes or so after dark. Fire weather conditions here are likely to be only High or Very High, which in fire talk isn't so bad for winter. It isn't good---but it is typical. Out west and in the TX/OK panhandles, they'll be brutal on Thursday--and there are several terms they use to describe those brutal conditions like Extreme or Critical or Extremely Critical. Usually, we never hit the Extreme or Critical or Extremely Critical classification in our county until sometime in March or April when the winds are gusting in the upper 40s or in the 50s. We just don't get winds like that very often here, but they are a lot more common the further west you go.

I'm used to the hardening-up process being one step forward and two steps back, so I'll just deal with it. Normally, I can leave the plants in the greenhouse and close the doors to keep the chickens out, but this youngest batch of chickens that we got last year are poor garden companions. They continually attempt to eat the plants I'm hardening off, and it is going to be too hot to close the greenhouse doors to keep them out. It seems like it is smarter to get the unwanted 2-day break than to risk the plants. In a normal winter, if I was leaving at 3 pm to go to a fire, I could move all the plants into the greenhouse, close the door and leave. This isn't a normal winter though and I'm worried the plants would roast inside the greenhouse with the door closed even for just a couple of hours until sunset. Hot winters complicate the hardening off of veggies quite a bit, which seems counter-intuitive but it is true. Too much heat too early really isn't a good thing in a lot of ways.

Dawn

I was wondering if green house plastic (no shade cloth) is enough protection from the sun. I'm thinking about putting my tray of first sprouts out, because I have more waiting to get the window light. What DID I do last year? I must have used the greenhouse. I will have to rig an overhead shade. I would put them on lower shelves, with something above, but the stupid chickens can reach them there. The chickens have been penned for a couple of days while a grand dog is here. The scarlet kale that survived the freeze is trying to put little leaves out since the chickens weren't there to strip them off.

Of course Swallowtail is the one place I didn't order from this year. I had a hand full of things from there on my list, but decided they had to wait.

Another good compact plant is Whippersnapper. It will be covered in blooms while still in the solo cup. Average taste, but very early, and any thing fresh is better than store bought at that point, It will grow in a 5 gal bucket.

Amy, I did this yesterday and the day before. The seedlings got lightly sunburned. I was considering putting them out, but with a blanket to block out more sun.

Amy, The greenhouse offers no protection from light unless you have one with a partially opaque white covering instead of a clear one and, depending on the angle of the sun and the type of plastic on it, might intensify the light exposure (like a magnifying glass does). That's why mine get hardened off to outdoor sunlight first and then I can just leave them in the greenhouse all the time.

Because these young chickens are not as refined and well-behaved as our old chickens, all my hardening off this year so far is occurring in the cattle feed trough which has hoops. I cover the hoops with micromesh netting, which excludes the chickens from eating the plants and does block a small amount of sunlight. I have been hardening off in two rounds---Round 1 in the morning and then a second set of plants go out for Round 2 in the afternoon. I will have to change this ASAP because each of them is now up to 5 hours per day, so starting Friday (I'm skipping tomorrow for sure due to the wind and heat) I'll carry them out to the garden since none of these chickens have figured out how to fly over the 8' tall garden fence yet. I'll put tables along the west fence line and line up all the flats there and I can switch to one round instead of two. Yay!

I carried out Round 1 of the plants just morning, almost against my better judgement, but I figured if we have fires, it will be in the afternoon and not the morning. I'm not sure if the Round 2 plants will go out today. When I came back inside, I had an alert on my phone from our Dispatch Center telling us that there will be a large prescribed burn today situation in between three roads where wildfires are incredibly frequent. I groaned. I might not have carried out all those flats of seedlings if I'd seen that message first. I'm glad they're burning that acreage, but wouldn't be surprised if the prescribed burn escapes control. If it does, I hope it doesn't happen until all my seedlings are back inside. Every firefighter with whom I'm spoken this morning expects the fire to escape control. At least they're doing it today and not tomorrow.

One good thing about hardening off plants in February is that the wind speeds in general (with tomorrow being the exception) are lower than in March, so the plants are hardening off in a slightly more gentle environment. They'll get plenty of strong wind exposure later, but I'm glad they're only getting mild wind exposure now.

Amy, I don't think I've ordered from Swallowtail yet this year either, but that doesn't mean that I won't!

I'm getting worried about all this heat and starting to wonder if it is smart to invest too much garden space in cool-season crops. It may get too hot for them too early. Decisions, decisions, decisions. I do like Whippersnapper, but haven't grown it in a few years.

Bon, What about a bedsheet or something like a sheer curtain. They would let some light penetrate, but not a lot. I avoid using quilts and blankets if I can because if the wind blows them down onto the flats, they're often heavy enough to crush the seedlings.

Dawn

DH brought me the old fabric shower curtain yesterday. I saved it for greenhouse/shade cloth use. It has the built in clip on rings. It's white. Thinking I will see if I can rig it across the top of the green house on the inside.

If I put the citrus trees outside I would have room for the trays. But they have to harden off, too.

Dawn, I wrapped our old sturdy wire rabbit cage with plastic. I set the blanket on the top for when the sun is hammering them as it sits on the south side of the house for warmth, but it's a tad too much sun I guess. You're right tho. A sheet would work best. I might try that tomorrow.

Tomorrow a sheet may fly off to the moon because we could have wicked wind. Y'all watch your forecast for tomorrow and handle the seedlings accordingly.

I always say that the same weather that makes for high/critical/extreme fire danger days is also hard on our young seedlings. Well, for most of the state, that will be the case tomorrow. Remember plants can wind burn just as easy as they can sun burn while hardening off.

I'm not putting any plants out tomorrow. They will be safer indoors.

Crazy eggplant. Seeds started on 1-29 never sprouted so I replanted different seeds. The 2 six packs I threw back into soil bucket 2-14 have sprouts. No heat no light no water. Makes you wonder if we need to abuse our seeds more often

Well, I wouldn't recommend abusing seeds. That sounds cruel. Are the seeds sprouting in the bucket from the first round that never sprouted or from the replanted seeds? Either way, it appears you will have eggplant.

Whatever works. hahahaha

The first that never sprouted. I gave up and put the 2 six packs in my soil bucket. I was very surprised to see the little sprouts. They just needed more time. I will make notes of that. 25 days to germination.

They can't sprout until the soil is warm enough. Most folks plant eggplant seeds too early---like around the same time they sow tomato seeds and pepper seeds, but eggplant seeds are very slow to sprout until the soil is warm enough so they tend to lag behind both tomato seeds and pepper seeds by quite a big. If the soil is warm enough, the eggplant seeds sprout quickly. If soil temperatures are in the optimum range for eggplants, the seeds can sprout in about 5-7 days. Of the three related plants, tomato seeds will sprout in the coolest soil, and then pepper seeds will sprout a bit later after the soil warms up some, and then eggplant seeds will sprout even later after the soil has warmed up even more.

Remember the Tom Clothier database that we use here a lot? It shows the relationship between seed germination rates and soil temperatures. I'll find it and link it.

Tom Clothier Database: Relationship Between Soil Temp/Seed Germ

I have that printed out. It's awesome to keep it handy.

I put all my seed trays a heated mattress pad after i realized my soil Temps were too cool in this camper. After I did I kept the soil temp 72 to 78. At one point it did get up to 82 but that was a hot day without supplemental heat. I just figured those slownpoke eggplants were too old from 2014. But they sure fooled me. Maybe they liked the dark better.

My favorite part is when the seeds come up, too. I have baby tomatoes today. I have not started peppers yet. I'm not really worried cause they don't do anything for me till fall anyway. Trying to figure out how to warm up the eggplant. They're not up. Swiss Chard, are seeds sort lived? The other chards are up, but the older seeds are not.

Some of my old chard seeds took a while longer than other things to germinate. Then, they all came up at once.

Chard always takes forever for me. I never tried it inside but I will now

I have had chard seed germinate pretty well even if it was 5 or 6 years old or older. They'll germinate faster if you soak them for an hour or two before planting. Beets are the same way. Soaking speeds up the process.

Amy, my favorite part, too. Doesn't it give you a little thrill to see one pop up? Does me. My newest planted peppers of 5 days ago. . . the green bells have begun showing up, no jalapenos or ornamental ones yet. . .

Nancy, sometimes I think I should just start seeds and sell them. My success with grown plants is marginal, but I do seedlings well, and it is my favorite part of gardening. I guess the other things I love are blooming flowers, fresh lettuce and ripe tomatoes.

Amy that is hysterical! Well, I'm not good with seeds that take a long time to germinate. . . but am getting better. Our little grocery store avocado trees have been a good lesson in patience. It has been 2 1/2 months or so since we began our little experiment. Took 6 weeks for the first one to sprout. But we persevered. I do love the fresh lettuce, ripe tomatoes, too--and cucumbers, peppers.. . potatoes. . . AND blooming flowers everywhere!

Last year...I think it was last year, I started ginger and turmeric roots indoors. Eventually I decided they didn't "take" and ignored them. I was busy with spring stuff and didn't dump the pots. Low and behold the turmeric started to grow. It grew all summer. When I pulled it up it really wasn't big enough to use, but DH threw it away before I could replant it. Gardening is hard on impatient types.

Life is hard on impatient types. (grin)

Gardening is life, is it not?

Amy, I cannot believe your DH threw away your turmeric.

Nancy, We have wildflowers everywhere most of the time, so they keep me happy until the garden flowers start blooming. I feel like Spring is really about to bust out all over here. So far, the wildflowers in bloom are the tiny ones like bluets and spring beauties, and the ever present dandelions, but there's lots of others getting really, really close.

My seedlings upstairs are bored with being stuck in a room with artificial lights and artificial wind (via the fan) and really are ready to move out to the greenhouse. I just want to get through this week's cold nights and then the seedlings can move out to the greenhouse. Then, on the next day the weather traps me indoors all day, I'll start new flats of more plants. It is a vicious cycle that doesn't end until the garden is full and I'm trying to cram in one more little plant here and there and everywhere.

Dawn

Dawn, I was smiling at all the little dandelions out on the driveway today, seemingly having sprung from nothing whatsoever, just sitting on top of the gravel.

I began hardening off today. I believe the seedlings and fast-growing tomatoes loved their first day (of 40 minutes) out. . . They were on the roofed deck out of the wind. . . a slight slight breeze. I think they all grew a bit AND turned a deeper green in one afternoon. It's a go!

Late this afternoon I did a walk-through of the garden to test the footing in its formerly muddy paths. I've largely stayed out of it since the last rainfall because it just has been mud, mud, mud. I could walk in there today on fairly solid soil and without slipping and sliding, so working in the garden tomorrow is a "go".

Things I noticed that were new to me today were the first tiny volunteer sprouts of basil and moss rose. Normally they do not sprout quite this early. They are so small and low to the ground that I do not think the two nights later this week in the low to mid-30s will hurt them. I will need to harvest asparagus tomorrow before it starts to get too tall. There's comfrey coming up in the asparagus bed, so I'll dig it out and move it tomorrow. The onions beds need a little bit of weeding in between onions, but not much. A fennel plant popped up in a pathway and needs to be moved to the edge of the garden (most plants would rather not grow around fennel---it really does seem like it might stunt their growth).

Down by the driveway gate, the Texas bluebonnets are as tall now as they would be in late March through mid-April, and are quite numerous. They are a little hard to grow here, or at least in the spot where I have them, because they prefer very rocky soil, which we don't have, or very well-drained sandier soil, which we don't have much of in any area sunny enough for them. To get them to come back every year and to reseed in our dense red clay feels kinda like a miracle. We've never had a huge number of them, but we always have enough to keep me smiling. This year, we may have more than we've ever had before. It isn't like driving down a highway in Texas and seeing them in huge swaths along the roadway or in fields, but it is just enough of my birth state's state wildflower to keep my happy. Usually I have a patriotic red, white and blue field of wildflowers in April and May, including both the Texas bluebonnets and blue star grass, red Indian paintbrush, and several white wildflowers, including yarrow and bloodroot. I enjoy the red, white and blue combo. This year, it seems like the bluebonnets may be a bit ahead of the others.

Tonight I left all the cool-season plants outside overnight, still under the protective cover of micromesh, and will be putting them in the ground tomorrow. That means I can then start hardening off more tomato plants. It is an endless cycle.

On a pretty sunny afternoon like we had today, it feels like Spring. I still think we have some winter weather less, but we'll have less and less of it as time goes on.

Well I have been away from my babies and aargh...my friend did not reset the heater like I showed him sooooo it kicked off Sunday night and the greenhouse temp got down to 27. He said several babies were laying down. Then he didn't get over there until 11 and the temp was already 93 inside. I am sad. It will be fine since I planned for some sort of problem and planted double what I needed. It's just hard to find good free help these days lol.

Kim, That is disappointing. I am hoping the plants are okay. Let us know how they handled the wild temperature range.

Dawn

Ouch, Kim. So sorry about it. . .glad you've got backups. Yep, it IS hard to find good free help! Glad you've got a sense of humor about it.

Have to laugh.

Help says they are fine but I will be the judge I'd them when I get home tomorrow. They said the wind was gusting to 40 mph and the little greenhouse did just fine.

Kim, back to your original question. Dawn had posted this fellow's link on a much earlier post, and he had a great article on seed viabiiity. http://tomclothier.hort.net/

Kim, a M.E.N article you might find useful.

I think thermal mass can be helpful. I often use it when sneaking extra-early tomato plants into the ground in weather just like what we are having now---plenty of warmth in general but still the occasional cold days or night. I do that by placing a Tidy Cat cat litter bucket on the north side of each plant. It absorbs sunlight and heats up during the day and releases the heat at night to keep the young plants a little warmer at night than the overall air temperature. These are useful on any night, but doubly so when we are going to be near freezing and I've put a winter weight floating row cover over the entire bed, so including both plants and buckets of water, to help hold in the heat. It is important to cover them in mid-afternoon to late-afternoon, well before sunset, to hold in whatever heat the thermal mass and the ground both have accumulated during the day.

Inside the greenhouse, how well it works can partially depend on how warm the season has been overall and how much sunlight you get. All the thermal mass in my greenhouse is confined to molasses feed tubs filled with water (with boards placed over them so cats, chickens or roaming varmints like mice) don't fall into the water and Tidy Cat cat litter buckets filled with water and with the lids snapped shut. All that mass sits beneath the tables so the plants themselves are on the tables just above the thermal mass. During our typical winter weather with sunny, often warm days, and cold nights, the thermal mass keeps the greenhouse very warm with no heat. I've overwintered brugmansias and citrus trees this way for years with no supplemental heat. During colder weather, when we can stay very cold and very cloudy for days, the thermal mass doesn't build up nearly as much heat and, thus, doesn't keep everything at night. Still, even when your thermal mass of water freezes, it releases heat, so the plants have more heat than they'd otherwise have.

My greenhouse is attached to the ground with rebar. The rebar is just hammered into the ground, and then holes drilled in the baseplate (2" x 4" lumber) of the hoophouse fit over the rebar---so the rebar sticks up just slightly above the lumber. That was a quick and simple step in building the greenhouse that we were careful not to skip. If you've ever seen a neighborhood's trampolines go airborne and fly/roll across pastures in simple 50 mph wind gusts, then you understand why we chose to do something to help hold the greenhouse in place. We haven't had tremendous wind--of the lower end tornado type--since building the greenhouse, but it has survived wind gusts of at least 63 mph without budging at all. I suspect it would handle at least 80 mph gusts. I'm not sure if it would handle winds too much higher than that.

Seeds can be oddly uncooperative at times, but what I've found is that with veggie seeds and with annual flower seeds, there's not much that stops them from sprouting except for soil temperatures that are much, much too high or much. much too low. With perennial flowering plants, often there's a need for cold stratification or alternating warm and cold stratification, but it is easy to simulate those with wintersowing or with planting seeds in flats and putting them in the extra fridge to get the cold they need.

The Federal Standards for germination for some vegetables is fairly low and, without fail, I find that the purchased seeds I use normally exceed the Federal germination standards a great deal.

Sometimes when seed suppliers test batches of seeds, they observe a seed germination percentage that is lower than the Federal Standards. Rather than refusing to sell the seeds, most reputable seed companies that package their own seed will overpack, sometimes by more than 200%, in order to ensure you get enough seeds that will germinate. Usually they stamp "substandard germination" or something similar on the packet. Even in a case like that, I often get 100% germination from those seeds, even if they are more slow to germinate than usual.