At first glance that top pic looks almost like the Dorset Horn ruffles, but if you look close is there something amiss with the midrib on the right hand leaf? It almost looks as if each leaf is puckered....as if damaged by a virus or insect? Have you looked closely for RSM for example? Yes, I'm sure you have:-) I know greenfly can cause leaves to be distorted, it happens on my roses. Hope neither is true and it's just my magination!

As for the second seedling....is it variegated? I've seen pale leaves on other plants that have this pink cast on the undersides.

No doubt others will soon add their penny worth of ideas :-)

Hi Gill!

Now, you know I'm a super bug zapper! Only good spiders are allowed to visit my plants. But these babies are new and coddled.

That particular ruffled seedling is one of 120+ that germinated together. The rest are all normal. I'll try to capture a picture of the leaf you mentioned and add it here. Maybe your expert eyes capture something I don't see.

If you look closely, one of the leaves on the other one is speckled with a small amount of green. Not really variegation, but could very well be the start of a genetic variegation.

Hard to tell anything specific so early on because, as Pagan would correctly say, "Well, because they're new seedlings!" I still like to document these anomalies to see how they develop and to share the experience.

Maria Elena

keep them isolated, or at least well marked, they might well could be very special ...

Well, I examined it closely with a magnifier and all I can come up with is maybe that particular leaf got damaged emerging from its seed casing. The photo above is pretty much it and shows the first two leaves (1st leaves, not true leaves), which the one you mentioned is one of ... half of that leaf is missing! Oh, and what you see as "puckered" in the above photos is water ... We had a brief drizzle just before I took those pictures.

The next two leaves (1st true leaves) came in curled & facing downward. Here are snapshots of those two:

Here's another Bondyred seedling with a little bit of a misshapen 1st leaf, as well. They both had a piece of clear sheath left behind from their seed casings.

In conclusion, I have no idea. You mentioned virus ... I certainly hope not because that would cause bloom color demarcation lines to bleed, causing instability in natural garden breeding. I wish I could find out where this Bondyred came from. I received the seed from a friend, who received it from a pal. I have not been able to locate any information on its origin or genetics.

I'll be watching this one closely. Let's see what the next few leaves do. I'll keep you posted.

Maria Elena

Hi Maria,

If you maybe got those seeds from Alma recently I had sent her some not long ago. I went a bit nuts and bought 50 of the "Bondyred" seeds when first started buying Adenium seeds so have been spreading them around. I got them on ebay from a seller in Thailand called best_plumeria.

I have 10 "Bondyred" seedlings growing and they don't seem so show any strange leaf formation. I did let them dry out a little so my leaves are a bit yellow and unhappy.

I hope that gives you a place to start.

John

Hi, John!

Yes, Alma is my "adenium partner in crime." We sort of temporarily lost our minds and purchased tons of seeds, too. We swapped our inventory and shared them with others, as well ... Like minded folks here.

I received four Bondyred seeds and three have germinated, so I'm very pleased with that. Only this one has the odd curled leaves. If it's a genetic trait, it won't easily disappear. I will contact best_plumeria to see whether I can learn anything about this seed's hybridization crosses.

I'm really happy you joined us. Looking forward to updating you on their progress. I'd be curious to see who gets what out of these. Thanks for inadvertently sharing your seeds with me. I love that bloom and can only dream of getting even close.

Maria Elena

I wonder if my ko 10 is the one that has a cple white leaves?

They sort of all look alike at this stage, Alma. Unless you keep a germination record of what's in each cell (which I do), you're out of luck until the blooms come in ... maybe.

My advise is that you mark this one (& any other special ones) and document progress.

Oh all of them are marked, I just can't remember which it is without going outside to check! ;)

We did loose are minds, didn't we? Lol! Now I have to move all those seedlings to yogurt cups! This weekend! By the way a few of these babies are bigger then the Riona seedlings that I will be sending your way!

Maria Elena, look on my Oct 17th thread from starting seeds. I had an issue similar to yours. It is now all green. Lost all the white and pinkish brown

Yup ... I saved all my yogurt cups to reuse. Alternately, I just purchased some great terra cotta colored 2" plastic starter pots on eBay. The round ones were 50 for $11.99 and the square ones were 55 for $14.89.

Now I need to buy all the components to my mix and start mixing!

Ha! We'll swap runts and see how the change in culture suits them. Mine are very healthy but didn't grow much over the winter due to cooler temps (68-72º F), but survived due to the daily highs (82-86º F). It's now warmer, with higher humidity, so they are beginning to grow again. All new leaves are double in size ... I did add a tblsp of slow release Osmocote per gallon to the mix when I repotted.

Please take note & isolate. Do not allow this one to cross breed in your garden. It will potentially introduce this genetic anomaly to all your future seeds. Gill's suggestion of a possible virus was right on point!

Response from Best_Plumeria, Thailand:

"New message from: best_plumeria (6,530)

"Hi.

This have happen with some seeds. This plant will have slowly to grow. No have perfect form when adult. Came from many factor, example fertilize, light etc.

In our nursery will throw this plant because can not correct this problem. Thank you very much."

Yet, no doubt, they are not pulling the seed. Now, I truly understand the importance of reputable (high integrity) nurseries.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Adenium-Obesum-Desert-Rose-Bondyred-25-Seeds-/401297536101?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

Once they begin to bloom, I'll keep my 3 Bondyred completely away from the rest of my collection (on the other side of the house). I'll determine then whether any is worth keeping.

This is a good example of a "lone wolf" ... a plant that cannot be kept with other adenium in order to prevent cross-breeding and passing off its genetic anomalies.

Maria Elena

If you are referring to me, my two, Neither of my two are the bondy red, one is one of the dawaski and the other is a Ko seed

I remember speaking to Robert from Luck Sumo / Living Sculpture Sanctuary about this. He said that he stopped ordering plants from even the most reputable sellers like Ko and Rinoa and sticks with seeds. He ordered on a very, very large scale and he said too many plants were coming with Tobacco Virus. I suppose it could transfer to seeds too if they are handled by an infected person. I believe he breeds his own now.

Alma, you lost me. I am sharing the information for anyone, in general, who planted the Bondyred seeds. Didn't you plant some?

I find the topic of genetic mutation in these very interesting and am looking forward to documenting how these develop in comparison to each other.

HWT, incredible! What is the purpose of issuing phytosanitary certificates, then? Who's regulating exportation against virus? This really makes me wonder what other time bomb I'm nurturing. Oh, well ... It was just a matter of time.

Maria Elena

Gotcha! Yes but mine are fine. My two that resemble/resembled your one are different seeds. :)

All the Bondyred seeds can carry the genetics for this deformation, which can show up in any seed. If a bee cross pollinates its blooms with another adenium in your garden, the resulting seeds can potentially carry the undesired mutation ... and so it spreads. Nobody wants that.

This is a very important issue. These plants are best kept completely isolated, with no other adenium around. If it self pollinates and produces seed, those are best destroyed.

A 3rd odd one just germinated ... a nice first for me after planting about 250 seeds (not all at once!). I guess if you plant enough seeds you'll eventually get one.

KO_Star of Silver Wings conjoined twins - They are clearly delineated and appear to be only joined in the center. Will share whether double root system before repotting in a month.

Maria Elena

Wow this is interesting how the bondy red seeds can carry some bad genetics even when they are growing normal. I will definitely keep an close eye on my seedlings.

Hey, John!

Yes, seeds are offspring and carry the genetic markers of their maternal & paternal lineages ... Just as we do. Some people are born with 6 toes ... a parent &/or grandparent had 6 toes, too!

In this case, it's excessively curled leaves, which may not result in a tree with good form. Reputable growers destroy the plants & seeds to prevent spreading the undesirable trait(s). I'm curious to see how this one will grow in comparison to the other two I have, yours, and any others that may be out there.

Absolutely do not (nor allow a bee to) cross pollinate this one. It will pass the trait to its offspring, contaminating the offspring of all plants it crosses with. The ones that look "normal" can potentially carry and pass on the trait.

In researching this topic, I learned that after so many years of hybridizing, many plants carry genetic mutations ... Just some traits are more aesthetically pleasing than others.

Maria Elena

Thank you for doing all this research will interesting to see how this all progresses.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I believe this deformation may be due to a virus.

Could it be the mosaic virus? Any other seedlings show same patterns?

No other on mine, just the one ... I have three.

Maria i think you are right i have some seedlings with crinkled leaves it was caused by the seed case being to dry. After i pick it off they all had crinkled leaves:×)