Jeri, a lovely bloom from Bloomfield. Some sources ID Bloomfield Abundance as Spray Cecile Brunner. Do you have the scoop on that story? Carol

Carol, hopefully jeri will share that story again - it is fascinating.

Meanwhile Jeri, could you post a picture of the entire bush, if you have one? i have been intrigued by this story every since I read one of Graham Thomas's books years ago, in which he spent a lot of time explaining the difference between what he (and everyone else in England) thought was BA, vs CB. All I could think of at the time was "thou protesteth too much", and "if it walks like a duck..."

Do you know if the newly re-discovered BA is in the Sac Historic Cemetery rose garden? I would so love to see a bush of it.

Jackie

A really lovely bloom, and it doesn't strike me as looking like Cecile Brunner.

Even after DNA testing several years ago demonstrated beyond a doubt that was was thought to be Bloomfield Abundance in England (and other places) was really just another sport of Cecile Brunner (now called spray Cecile Brunner), many major rose nurseries in the UK and here kept selling spray CB under that name. There was a huge controversy - many prominent English rose folks stayed in denial for a long time. I recall one of the major hybridizers saying that he remembered BA from his childhood, and his father grew it for decades before that (grew spray CB under the name BA). I totally believe that - the rose was hybridized in the US in 1920. I am sure it did not take long for it to be sent across the pond. Somehow, very early, it must have been confused with what we now know is a sport of CB. It must have been very early, for generations of British rose folks to know it as BA. The true BA became a "lost" rose. There are very good recent pictures of what is thought to be the true and re-discovered Bloomfield Abundance on HMF. It was re-discovered by Fred Boutin, whose CA found/mystery old rose collection formed the basis for the rose garden in the Sacramento Historic Cemetery.

Jackie

A fascinating story, Jackie! Thank you for sharing the details. I had heard there was quite a flurry of (heated) conversations about BA and Spray CB at one time. Even today, many Spray CBs continue to be double listed as both Spray CB and BA. Carol

Yes, "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" is a common human position. I hope that what appears to be the true BA gets back in to commerce, so I can grow one!

Jackie

Jackie, not at a nursery close to you, but Bloomfield Abundance is in commerce.

Bloomfield Abundance at Rose Petals Nursery

Thanks! Their web site says they can now ship to Calif., so I might try it. However, when I looked on HMF there are FOUR PAGES of nurseries which say they carry Bloomfield Abundance. Of course, 99.99% of them are still selling spray Cecile Brunner under that name. ARGHH!

Jackie

Pretty sure Rose Petals would have the real thing. But just to be sure, ask if what they have came from the Sacramento City Cemetery.

I have photos of the bush there, and will post them, if I can find them, but I think there's a map of the roses on the cemetery website, so you should be able to find it. (I could walk you to it, but . . . )

When I inquired about Rose Petals Nursery's Bloomfield Abundance two years ago, this is what Cydney told me:

"Bloomfield Abundance was obtained from Dr. Malcolm Manners of FL Southern College."

And Dr. Malcolm Manners obtained it from Fred Boutin at a Heritage Rose Foundation event. We will propagate this rose again for sale at the Sacramento cemetery- not this year because our plants need to grow.

Thanks for the info!

Jackie

Even without dna, I could well believe that the rose in commerce as Bloomfield here in the uk, is actually a Cecile variant - I took a picture last year of a 'Bloomfield' doing that classic Cecile thing where it proliferates to the extent that there's a whole new bud growing out of the middle of the first one.

That found rose certainly is a darling looker, even without the name.

And he was a delightful man, Beales. I was so sorry when he left us.