How about Perionyx Excavatus? They are more suited for warmer climates. I used to have some of them, mixed in with the worms I bought; but with time, they disappeared. I guess temps. was getting to cold for them and they just "dissolved" into liquid. They did tend to wander more than the EFs. They are quite beautiful though, with a purple sheen and such. Google the latin name or Hawaian Blue or Malaysian Blue to get an idea. There is one supplier that sells PE if you google it.

Most sources I see still do not recommend temperature maximums above 80 F for Perionyx excavatus, although you will occasionally see a mention that they can tolerate up to 90 degrees (though not perform well at that maximum.) In addition to that many worm composters think they are a nuisance to deal with, being inclined to leave the bin and wander even when the lights are on. Some people seem willing to deal with their habits but I think they might be a discouraging worm to start out with. I would research further before deciding.

https://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-photos/blue-worms-perionyx-excavatus/

http://www.happydranch.com/articles/Perionyx_excavatus.htm

http://www.wormfarmfacts.com/Blue-Worm.html

I doubt there is a type of worm that is built for super-high temperatures - in nature they'll just tend to stay in places where the conditions are okay for them (and lay cocoons to start the cycle again should they guess wrong).

Obviously indoors or somewhere that's temperature controlled will be better. If it has to be outdoors, my best suggestion would be to have a bin (more akin to a compost bin) that's open to the ground and partially sunk. Dig a hole - say a foot or so - directly into the ground and put the open-bottom bin in there. In the shade, of course. The idea is that the lower part of the bin would stay at average daily temperatures - or even lower because the ground underneath it will have a cooling effect. A bin kept damp will also have some cooling from evaporation. The worms would head down as it gets hotter above. Big layer of shredded paper on top to buffer temperatures. Hopefully worst case is that the adult worms die but leave cocoons/eggs and population starts over again; real worst case is you end up with a regular old compost pile. I don't deal with temperatures this high though - my issue is deep freeze in winter and the worms always come back. Obviously this solution may not work for your yard, but good luck.

do you have air con in your house. if so why not keep them indoors. from what i have been reading there is no smell from the bon/tower and you could all ways tuck them away some where discreet.

Thanks for these comments, advice and back-and-forth!

Armoured and Tipytoes, yes I have been Googling and reading this and other forums until my eyes have glazed over and think I'm ok on the design options, I may go to buy the materials today and start building a 2' by 2' triple wood bin tray stack. I love all the helpful comments but really *hope* the thread stays open to the species comments since I'm honestly most excited about that possibility. I haven't used AC or heat in a couple of years. I'm like the worms, if it gets hot I leave the house, if it gets cold, I find big covers to tunnel under.

Regarding the placement in the yard, will nematodes enter the worm composting habitat? The soil is teaming with them, and that would be a disaster to my containers. All my efforts go to preventing that. This is Florida and a different situation due to nematodes. They have left me cryin' in a corner promising never to plant anything ever again, more than once.

Kindest wishes

PC

Hi Parsley & Otis, thanks for addressing directly the other species' questions.

You are right, the ice water in the design is not something I can afford to do time-wise given my screaming babies (tomato plants) which are now mostly taller than me and only accelerating their growth. That is interesting that many tropical worms are not easily available here. There are enough micro-organisms here for fast-track rot-pile composting that it probably isn't such a big deal in Florida, except I'm sold on the worm castings being a superior amendment for my spoiled plants and am tired of attracting varmints or them digging up any kitchen vegetable waste I bury. I like containers where I can protect the process, just like the plants, so worms are a natural for me in that sense.

I don't know if there really are "native" composting worms in Florida, but I really doubt it at this point, since I'm sure it would be out there in all the comments. From what I can glean with Google, they are mostly E. fetida's naturalized in Florida with dubiously supported claims to have better genetics.

Regarding Perionyx excavatus, Otis, I cannot make heads or tails out of the random comments I've found regarding them being more heat tolerant in the links above and many more. The fact that they are tropical really is what makes them tempting. But I am a bit scared of them as a first-timer since the only thing everyone seems to agree upon is how they move fast and get out of Dodge in an accelerated manner, as Parsley also was quick to point out. I also understand they are considered an undesirable invasive by some so I need to get some experience before destroying the world by mistake lol!

That said, I am leaning to the African Nightcrawler now, Eudrilus eugeniae. I think a 50/50 blend of Red Wigglers and African Nightcrawlers might be the way to go and let them work it out between themselves who stays. I don't see a reason not to have a blend since I'm not going into business to sell purebreds. I just want them for my tomato plants and kind of like that I may even get increased activity in the vermicompost from the possibly different microorganisms these guys host. What do you think of that approach - is there a down side to mixing them?

Finally can any of you recommend a worm trap design to find my local composters? This is very sandy ground but there are occasional worms in organically rich areas. I'd like to lay out the most efficient bait trap to get a handful free and local and see what they are. Not just throw a pile of veggies in a hole if there is something better to suggest, because like I said this place is very worm poor. Along those lines, is another option to go to horse stables and see if I could make a friend enough to look for worms. No clue on what to do, but I'm up for it and probably could find something not too far a drive.

Thanks so much for all the wonderful guidance!

PC

I don't know what kind of nematodes you have or whether they're harmful to worms, but most times I've heard them referred to in vermicomposting context, they were considered good - killed other nasties. In fact some wormheads try to get them to add to their bins. But entirely will depend I guess on the type.

Here are several neat videos of ANCs: http://vermicomposters.ning.com/video/video/listForContributor?screenName=3r1mido9g918m

Hi Armoured, yes, you are from the North and it shows but you're right about it depending on which one! There are good nematodes and bad nematodes, and best ones. The best ones kill the bad ones! The bad ones are three deadly words 'nuff said:

Root Knot Nematodes

Thanks Otis for coming back. It looks like our posts crossed as I was on line over an hour before finalizing my post above about the ANc's. Price is the same high pricing facing me with the red wigglers if I can't figure a free way or trade, which I probably will. I'll look at the videos and, yes these are most promising to me at this point. Thanks for giving me more confidence since I keep getting the feeling I should do what everyone else is doing, even if they live in places where the ground actually freezes (Imagine that!).

My Best

PC

The best way to find local compost worms is to look in a local compost pile, and a horse manure pile is just compost from the worm's perspective. You might find in leaf litter around trees as well. Never heard of a worm trap, just a shovel or pitchfork. I'm lucky, the worms show up in compost on their own. Or unlucky, because the ground freezes.

(Gone pitchfork worm prospecting to see if it works miracles here)

I went to my compost which is actually a sorry place since it only gets a half pound a day. I tried the pitchfork trick (thanks) but got nothing. Then I went to a natural place with accumulation of leaves and there was no luck either in or under the leaves. Finally I dug to the lowest level of my raised bed which had a bottom layer of black cow and decomposing oak leaves. Nothing. In both 'wild' cases the sandy soil has too low moisture capacity for starters. So it is as I though on my place. I'll have to try other places but am not holding my breath unless I find someone with an established composting moist area where worms were probably introduced, intentionally or likely by something random.

It was worth the try ...

PC

Worms (the segmented, composting kind) eat nematodes! I think armoured may be thinking of the "beneficial nematodes" that are for sale that eat annoying critters such as fungus gnats, which some people buy to add to their worm bins. But of course there are zillions of kinds of nematodes that we might consider good, bad or indifferent depending on how they impact our interests. Anyhow, they are definitely on the menu for composting worms.

I have never designed a worm trap for the outdoors, as I pretty much pick them up with my hands at will when I find them. I know moisture availability is a big factor in whether worms are accessible or whether they've gone somewhere to hide, so it may be that a fast-draining sandy soil means the worms have to hide out a lot of the time. Worm hunting after or even during a rain may be one option. Manure piles retain a lot of moisture so they may be good hunting even if regular compost piles are not. If you can find a wood chip pile that has been sitting a while (some municipal wood chip piles qualify) that is another place to try.

Corn meal is well known to attract worms to a specific spot in a worm bin; I wonder if some corn meal in an outdoor pile would have a similar effect? Of course, outdoors it would probably attract all kinds of other life as well...

Uncle Jim's Worm Farm, probably the most prominent worm seller in the US, has a facility in Florida, although they are based in Pennsylvania and that's the address they use for everything. I bought my red wigglers this time around from Uncle Jim's, and was surprised to see the package arrive with return address in Florida. They may ship from one or the other location seasonally. They have ENCs as well as red wigglers, but not the other tropicals.

I know what information overload is like; I think at a certain point it makes sense to stop pre-reading and "optimizing" and start experimenting!

Thanks for that Parsley. It's been two or three days since Vermicomposting crossed my mind as something I'll do, and today I'm already shopping around for materials to build a worm bin (Unless you think the "Worm Factory 360" I can get second hand would be better than three or four 2'x2' trays lined with 1/4" 23 AWG hardware cloth).

I don't want to experiment much as this is an add on. I will have to get into it in time to do that. I need success so the project doesn't become a pile of junk taking up space that could've been. Then, I just may get hooked!

Thanks for all the very helpful tips you've offered me, and that includes the cornmeal (or corn fines aka starch I wonder if they'd prefer more) which I grind fresh dried myself. I don't think I am too slow though. Two days is pretty fast turnaround, from being clueless to lifting the hammer, isn't it? LOL! I'll try to cut to the chase now with the only pending question being whether a mixture of ANCs and RWs would have a down side as that is where I think I'd like to take the plunge. The logic is if one species out competes the other, good for me, unless I'm missing something since many people take pride in having 100% and nothing less of red wigglers. If they are reasonably matched the RWs may take over in winter and the ANCs mostly in summer. Advice on that point, Parsley or anybody?

Thanks for all the help

PC

Just a thanks again for all those who helped me. I'm really enthused now that my African Nightcrawlers are bought and scheduled to arrive very soon (!!!), so I've got to make the bin tomorrow. The plan for now is to build them up until I can get an answer from anyone on the wisdom of combining red wigglers with them. Knowing that, I would like to go to the bait shop and buy 30 E. fetidas if all other sources fail and throw them in one big happy family if that's sensible while things are roomy and building up, feed everyone, sit back and watch what happens.

Best

PC