Personally, I would never use Orthene either outside and especially indoors (it stinks!). But that's just me. I try to stay away from toxic stuff. If I get a bad infestation, I'll try some safer treatments, but if its out of control, the plant goes in the trash.

You really need to be careful about runoff. If you read the label, runoff will contaminate water supply. Children and pets have to be kept away.

You can use any systemic by following the directions on the label. They work the same as they would on dirt plants. I have used systemic fungicides and use the same directions given for ornamentals.

Jane

Jane, don't you think systemic fungicides are toxic? If contact poison is the need go to ivory soap instead. an ounce to the gallon. Only ivory or dawn. Most have degreasers and will do harm.

Harvey, I only use copper fungicides. Copper is a natural element. I use it when I can't get good control using foliage. I also use copper on my citrus and fruit trees. Safe to use.

Jane

Jane, after a quick google survey, it showed that copper fungicide is harmful to people and animals. Please be careful...

Come on Harvey, anything can be toxic in high doses. Copper is in your multi vitamins . Its a necessary element for growth and health in all life. But if you drink a undiluted bottle of copper...well I guess its could be toxic. But so is anything else.

Maybe read a little more about how effective copper is used in many skin conditions including cancer. It is a natural Earth element.

I always follow label directions. I do not drink the solution, but have no problem worrying about it contacting my skin or plants.

It is quite an effective fungicide and is used in municipal drinking water.

It works well on most orchids except dendrobiums, which it will kill. Plants can become resistant to it over time. So it is best to not overuse.

The systemic version is slower to work but is quite effective over time. I only use oil and copper sprays on citrus. They work without the toxicity.

Neem oil is quite effective killing sucking insects such as scale. It stinks so best used outdoors. If plants are infested with scale, oil sprays are probably the way I would go.

Jane

And there I was thinking somebody was wanting to go trekking in some jungle looking for orchids, LOL.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/toxic-metals/more-metals/copper-faq.html Copper is potentially toxic. Be careful. Read the link.

Anything in excess is dangerous. I grew up with copper pipes as did most people. We carried pennies, wore copper jewelry . However, anyone working in copper mines face the same risks as coal miners. I am not exposed to those risks.

Orthene is a poison. Its use is banned in Canada and Europe. It kills bees and other beneficial insects. It is quickly absorbed through the skin and lungs. It is toxic to birds, fish and invertebrates. It is linked to cancer and other nervous system problems. Frankly, I believe it should be banned for use on food crops as its active life is 15 days. For this reason, I buy organic vegetables.

Copper is not an insecticide, it is a fungicide. Just like what is used in pools and water pipes. It does not harm bees. I don't have to worry about my dog nor my grandchildren.

As I stated, any plant infested by insects which I can't clear up using safe methods go in the garbage. I believe healthy, vigorous plants can withstand most insect attacks. Fungal problems are usually caused by growing conditions, poor air circulation, etc. Can be a problem growing orchids outside in Florida or other humid areas.

We all choose how we want to grow our plants and gardens. I like to keep my house and grounds free of chemicals which endanger wildlife and domestic life.

Thanks for the link,

Jane

They all need to be respected. Orthene included. But that does not give a free pass to copper. In the form of fungicide the studies conclude it clearly is dangerous. It is far different than water running through copper pipes. It needs full respect just as much as orthene. This thread is asking for the use of a systemic insecticide. Not a fungicide. I have never heard of safari insecticide. Google says it is a systemic. Othene is an effective poison systemic and answers the question of the thread, not which fungicide. Which is not used to kill scale.

Can we address the scale problem.?

A big part of my presentations /lectures on orchid culture revolved around disease problem and how to address them. I tried hard to get growers to analyze their problem and adjust their growing patterns and environment (if at all possible) to avoid the problem in the first place.

Scale infestations happen where they have a favorable environment. Scale really like wet/soggy plants, crowded growing areas, lack of air movement, low light, overfed plants with weak growths, areca, sago and other palms, mango trees and other host plants nearby your orchid growing area can and do provide a continuing supply of scale to migrate to your plants. If you have infected host plants near your orchids they need to be treated as well or dealt with (removed).

I usually suggested to go ahead and spray and always wear protection, read and confirm to label directions and spray on a not so hot or windy day and stay upwind of the spray. As I have also been guilty of not having the perfect growing area at times, I would, instead of spraying chemicals, remove plant from pot and use a firm spray from water hose to physically removed scale from plants and then repot them.

Most important (after spraying) is to review your growing area and figure our WHY you're getting scale in your plants.

Many times bringing an infected plant to mingle with yours will also spread scale, it is important to check all new plant acquisitions and verify they are clean.

There are orchid plants that can be used as the canary in the coal mine, in that they would likely be the first to get scale. Encyclia tampensis ( a florida native) is one of these canary plants with regard to scale. If you get scale it will likely be the first plant that gets it.

If you grow plants outside, check and address the area for other host plants that may be infected with scale. Scale require multiple treatments if orthene is used, due to different stages of scale, 3 treatments 10 days apart should address the current batch. The long term solution to at least minimize scale events, if you have a reoccurring problem, is to resolve the environmental question.

Very well said!

Thank you, Ben

Jane

Thanks everyone for their input. My growing conditions are not ideal, but I have optimized them as best I can. Florida humidity and insufficient airflow are big contributors to my scale problems. My cattleyas were my late mother's collection and many of the plants are 30 years old. Tossing them out is not an option for me. I've been using manual removal methods, alcohol, soap, etc. for years, but there are so many plants I can't keep up.

Jane, thank you especially for addressing my specific questions about the systemic.

The one question I still have has to do with runoff. Not from my original treatment of the plants, but from subsequent watering after the plants have dried from the application. Is that runoff dangerous?

Many thanks!

Not with orthene. If you eat tomatoes non organic you already have exposure to orthene. Not just tomatoes but many veggies. Do not get oil based orthene. Get powdered or granulated. Add it to your fertilizer. Spray throughly, leaves and roots. It will kill on contact plus it will stay with the plant for 2 or 3 weeks. I would repeat it weekly for 3 weeks with a big problem.

Pls review the orthene label before making any conclusions.

http://cues.cfans.umn.edu/old/mnla/orthene.pdf