Bsmith, take my advice with a grain of salt as I am certifiably insane when it comes to bulbs, but I would cram every square inch of available soil now (while everything is small) with bulbs. I would put lots of the really pretty daffodils (I like the doubles - Tahiti, Flower Surprise, Cheerfulness, etc.) towards the back in clumps with some hyacinth more forward in cute little clumps (pink festival is adorable). Then, all the crocus and muscari you can cram on top of everything. There are some very attractive muscari out there. Feel free to add the snowdrops, etc. Go wild.

The reason I say to go wild is the daylillies and the hydrangeas will not be competing with the bulbs that much as the bulbs wake up much earlier. They do have an overlap in growing seasons, but you can think of it as time sharing the garden. So, you can really cram a lot of bulbs in there - if that's your thing (it's obviously mine).

The only plant that I see competing is the lirope as that stays green all year in my area. Otherwise, the daylillies will come up as the last blooms fade and the hydrangeas will fill out and the bulb foliage will become a quiet green backdrop that will just fade away.

By the way, I assumed multiple things in this post - you are sufficiently northern (or southern depending on your hemisphere) to give the required chill for bulbs and your garden gets sufficient Spring sun to qualify as full sun (6 hours or so).

HTH and welcome!

haha you two have great answers ! I am in zone 8b so only a few bulbs actually return but narcissus are one that returns so I am would like to make a couple clumps of those. I hear grape hyacinth does well as well but that's about it for us.

But to be clear, the hydrangeas are my main concern. I don't want to plant bulbs if any way they will hurt the performance of the hydrangeas or crowd them or stall their growth or anything. I don't have a whole lot of room but I figure if I make three or four big clumps in between the daylilies and hydranges, I should be ok right ?

I have concerns about the size of the planting area overall and the types of hydrangeas you selected. Unless you picked a dwarf form, most bigleaf hydrangeas (H. macrophylla) will easily get to 6'x'6.......often larger in mild climates. That space doesn't look large enough to accommodate three, plus daylilies and an edging of liriope. And you can't just prune hydrangeas to keep size in check without sacrificing at least some, if not most, of the flowers. Just how large is that bed??

There is no concern about filling the open areas with bulbs........they won't bother the hydrangeas at all and will make a colorful spring show. But the hydrangeas may not be good for the bulbs - hydrangeas need plentiful water in summer when the bulbs are dormant and require/prefer minimal water. You may get some bulb rotting going on while keeping the hydrangeas happy.............

ok thank you. The area is roughly 5ft deep by 15 feet long. I know it is stretching it a little but I want the hydrangeas to eventually come together as one mass so I have them about 4feet apart right now. I am zone 8b and they are the bloomstruck variety, which they say would be 3.5heigh x 4.5 wide max. I was told if they do come out too far I can prune somewhat, I want them to grow taller as I have the porch above and plenty of height to fill in. The daylilies may stay and they may go, when the sun comes over the house it hits the front walkway for an extra 1-2hours more than the back area with the hydrangeas. The liriope would be right at the border edge, right up against the walkway as I can.

I have attached a small picture to show where I would plant the bulbs if I were to plant bulbs. The green is the liriope I will add. Since the daylilies die back i tried to space them out to be just on either side of the daylilies, the white is a clump of 5 daffodil, the blue are clumps of 4 grape hyacinth just in front of the daffodil. Would the bulbs be far enough away to not cause any rotting ? Also what would you recommend in the far back area that gets a little more shade, still a few hours a day and evening dappled though. I am doing white daffodil and grape hyacinth in the front if yall think it will be ok without being too close to anything else and competing. Look ok ? I know it looks crowded here but they are all different bloom times.

Gosh, it looks so not crowded. :).

What about a clump between the hydrangeas as well?

Gardengal - does she need to be careful about the type of bulb she purchases in her zone? I know for my family in GA, they can't plant everything because of the lack of sufficient cold in the winter.

Haha, yea i could do that actually. Now i have to buy more!

The bulbs I am getting are Pheasants Eye and regular grape hyacinth if that helps.

It kind of depends on location ;-) While I live in a very mild winter zone, there are no issues about what kind of spring flowering bulbs we can grow and no need for any pre-chilling.

But all summer dormant spring flowering bulbs prefer it quite dry in summer. Some are more restrictive in this manner than others.

I am zone 8b, coastal Carolinas

Can't make a direct comment to that :-) I am in PNW coastal zone 8b/9a and no chilling required here. Check with more local sources and follow whatever practices recommended for your area.

i am worried about having too many bulbs surrounding my hydrangeas and when the clump gets too large it will intertwine with the hydrangeas and be too hard to split them without damaging the roots of the hydrangeas ?

does only one flower come off each grape hyacinth bulb? this will help me figure out how many to order.

Thank you Gardengal! Sorry to put you on the spot there. :)

I've been eyeing Pheasants Eye for a while. I'm reading from Van Engelen that they tolerate more shade than other daffodils (good for inbetween those hydrangeas!) and are listed for zones 3-7. I've learned that zone listings are not hard and fast - call a good quality local nursery and ask how poeticus does in your area.

You might want to also consider some of the smaller, early blooming ones like Tete a Tete which is a welcome sight after a hard winter. If you are looking for more historic varieties, there should be something similar to extend your blooming season.

For the muscari, I'm looking at pictures online and I see what can be 2 flowers per bulb, but in my experience, they don't have a bouquet per each bulb. If you want an instant display, I would order more than you think is needed and plant closely. Muscari are cheap and you could fit 100 in there and still have room for many more. You can also plant a few wait for them to multiply.

Just an FYI but most narcissus do not require pre-chilling in warmer climates, whereas most other spring flowering bulbs - hyacinths, tulips, crocuses, for example - will require adequate winter cold (or pre-chilling) to bloom well.

Pheasants Eye is quite a late Narcissus. You could have daffs much earlier than those. I have February Gold which can be in bud by late January. Daffodils can take water in summer. They don't come from places with baking summers like tulips do.

Would it bloom later than the grape hyacinth ? I'm trying to match it with that bloom period.

If not what's another similar white daffodil, maybe even a white with pink cup ? Something ok do shade and will bloom with the grape hyacinth.

I think the February Gold and Tete a Tete are being suggested as in addition to the pheasants eye rather than a replacement. This would extend your bloom period. You can have bulbs blooming from February until May with just daffodils. We're trying to pull you over to the dark side. :)

Haha you're doing a great job. I am really set on adding some grape hyacinth though, would either the Pheasant eye or the tete a tete Bloom at the same time as the grape? I want the grape but I want something to bloom with it, that obviously will work in my zone as well, and I hear both thr pheasant eye and tete a tete will bloom fine for me. I'm just trying to understand the bloom times of both, and which works with the great so I can design my planting correctly

When you say bulbs, don't forget those that are less bothered by the need for cold. Lots of bulbs work on a wet-dry seasonality, but thinking..that my not work with the hydrangeas, which are gonna want water and lots of it.

And as hydrangeas like shade, a lot of bulbs won't like that either...but some moisture tolerant cyclamen, like perhaps hederifolium might mix well.

Is the area sunny before the trees leaf out? That would help a lot with traditional spring bulbs.

Tete a Tete will bloom well before the grape hyacinth which in my experience blooms quite late so the pheasant eye would be a good bet.

Just a note about timing - it's really hard to time things perfectly. I don't think anyone has answered your question about timing as some years, the bloom period will be compressed and everything blooms together and then other years it will be elongated and things that typically bloom together will just slightly overlap or be near misses. Also, the first year the timing is a bit wonky. Not saying impossible, just varies.

"After blooms have faded and daffodil foliage has died back, do not water. When the weather is warm and bulbs are in moist soil, they rot easily. Daffodils are not suited to mixed borders with other plants that require water during the summer or in low points where water collects. Daffodils in consistently moist summer locations should be lifted and stored for replanting in a new location in the fall."

"Daffodils need lots of water while they are growing. Water immediately after planting and keep them moist until the rains come. Continue watering for three weeks or so after blooming time; then stop watering."

"Daffodils need plenty of water during their growing season and like to be dry in summer."

"Water daffodils generously while the plant is blooming, but keep the soil relatively dry when the plants are dormant during the summer."

Yall are killing me ! Ha. To plant, or not to plant..

I will have to plant these bulbs 3ft away from the hydrangeas so close, but on top of them. I do water a lot now and we get good rain in the summer, but its very sandy soil if thst helps me at all ? I dont want to pull 100 bulbs every fall so I'm goin to have to decide on if I am ok chancing it.

I either have to plant bulbs or add nothing because any other spring bloomer will probably stay green and crowd everything else I have going on there durine the summer.. hmmmm

Hmm, you are saying 3ft away from the hydrangeas in order to avoid watering? Gardengal, do you think bsmith's should avoid daffodils near the hydrangeas completely? I'm not sure that's my take away from your post. Instead, I would understand it to mean that it's less than optimal to water daffodils during the summer n and I agree.

I have clay and lots of daffodils in my perennial bed which might have had me forget the soaker hose overnight (2x? Oops!) after a record rainy Spring in 2016. After I watered, it always seemed to rain (like I had a magic power or something!). I saw a marked difference between the perennial bed performance this Spring (2017) and the bed next to the sidewalk which is hotter and drier. The sidewalk performed much better. However, I wouldn't say the perennial bed's performance was catastrophically bad. Still got lots of blooms. I'm inclined to say plant closer to the hydrangeas than 3ft and see what happens.

Oh no sorry I meant that wrong. The place that I want to plant my daffodils would be 3ft away from the hydrangea, not that the watee goea out 3ft from the hydrangeas. I use a hose so I could keep the watering to only 1ft outside the hydrangea.. so I won't "water" the bulbs while watering the hydrangeas, although it will still get rain and whatever seeps over from watering.

I think I'm going to do it though, I've got another place that I know will be fine, this was just an area of concern for me.

Now.. I am going to make clumps of pheasant eye, tete a tete and grape hyacinth. What's a good quantity of bulbs to plant together in each clump ?

GG all I can do is say what my experience is. We have precipitation pretty evenly distributed all year round and daffodils thrive in mixed borders. The wild daffodils of Wordsworth's poem grow on the edge of a lake in an area with some of the highest rainfall in the country.

Obviously, I have no knowledge of gardening in the US but do you think it's possible that some people are irrigating more than necessary? In the same way people are persuaded they need to buy in soil they are persuaded they need to be constantly watering?

I'm not actually that keen on grape hyacinths. I've always found them a bit and uninspiring. They are ubiquitous in older gardens here. The leaves can become a real mess and they spread like crazy.

bsmith, it seems that you want to get this bed organised and 'finished' but in reality gardening is a continual process. You could have many different ideas before your Hydrangeas reach their maturity. You don't have to get it permanently set out right now. Try bulbs. Try annuals. Try some cheap perennials. Nothing says you have to keep the design for ever. In fact for many of us designing a bed and then leaving it alone forever would defeat the whole point of gardening.

Yes, you should probably consider the smaller woodland perennials. Like woodland creeping phlox (p. divartica), trilliums, low growing ferns, heuchera, tiarella,golden wood poppy (stylophorum diphyllum). These are much better suited to a woodland constant moisture sort of situation than most bulbs.

In fact, I can recommend you look at sunlight gardens for some more ideas. They have a lot of that sort of thing, you can choose the shop option and select moist soil and your light condition and you should be set. I'd stay with low growers.

And floral, oh yes, there's so much wasteful use of water, though I tend to see it more on lawns. There were lawns that I would pass on the way to work, which you could count on daily (or several times a week) to be running water down the street, because the sprinklers had more than saturated the soil. I didn't tend to see it on beds, but I'm sure it does happen some there too. Remember, if a little is good, a lot has to be better, right ? :)

I'm a control freak and I like my plants to be mostly able to deal with the weather as it comes, so I use a lot of natives, or even plants from drier climates. I also hand water only as needed. In fact, though I gripe about watering, I think I probably derive pleasure from doing it. I certainly don't do it too much though (lol, because I'm essentially lazy too).

floral, you are right I do want to be 'finished' and every time I 'finish' one area I move on to the next, then I come right back full circle to the first spot and adjust it again ! haha its a process that never stops !! I love it, but once you add one thing here, you want one thing there and then you have to adjust one bed to accommodate something new and then you happen to see a picture of an amazing plant online and you have to have it so you add it too !

dbarron, I will look up those plants you are suggesting today but are these spring bloomers? I am looking to make this space a 2 season area. summer will bloom with hydrangeas, liriope and daylilies so now I am trying to figure out spring. The only reason I considered bulbs is because I have nothing for the spring right now, my hydrangeas will be woody so I need something to fill in the area and dont want something to stay all summer and have the area look crowded with so much stuff in it. that's why im torn

Many of the woodland species are spring bloomers. I think if you use that site it has a checkbox for that (and you can read descriptions too).

Bsmith did you make a determination?

Oh I'm doing it !! I forget the type I picked out I'll have to look in find out. But I found one of these bulb planter thingies so it should make it a little easier. I figured I'll plant them in different areas and find out what areas produce and add more the next fall

Yay! That's exciting- nothing more fun than new plants and garden. Will you keep us updated with pictures?

Have you already bought the bulb planter? If not I'd save my money and spend it on more bulbs. A trowel works fine. Or a spade if you're planting clumps. A planter's handy if you're doing hundreds.

I haven't bought it yet and i aee ir now.. now I'm not buying it, more money for bulbs!!!! Hahaha