Narcissus is the correct botanical name - daffodil is just a common name. Therefore, ALL daffodils are narcissus :-))

Narcissus are not all that fussy about winter chill requirements and virtually any type can be grown in zones as high as 10 without any need for prechilling.

Ahhhhh ok thanks !

Actually, while gardengal is right for the Pacific Northwest, her information is not entirely true for the southeast. There are a great number of daffodils (narcissus) that will simply disappear after a few years of growing in our climate. They don't get adequate chill time during our winters, and that is the problem. "Garden Bulbs for the South" by Scott Ogden is an excellent resource for learning the varieties that will do best in your area. In general, the divisions of jonquilla, triandrus, and cyclamineus are your best bets in our heat and humidity.

Interestingly, all the sources I consulted about bulbs appropriate to very mild winter climates confirmed that narcissus bulbs would grow well even in zones as high as 10 without prechilling.

" In an article written for beginners (“You Don’t Have to ‘Get Over Them’,” Florida Gardening, April-May 2006), Sara Van Beck offers the following advice.

“Florida daffodil culture is similar to the rest of the South — no summer irrigation, no mushroom compost (soil that is too rich or too wet leads to bulb rot), and proper fertilization based upon soil conditions.

• “Do not pre-chill your bulbs.
• “Plant October through December (pointy side up!), spaced apart three times the bulb’s width.
• “Deep planting (6 to 8 inches) provides a more even soil temperature and root space for large tazetta bulbs.
• “Mulch with chopped leaves, pine straw, or mini pine-bark nuggets.
• “Overplant with drought-tolerant annuals.
• “The location needs full sun through mid-March and summer shade (for cooler soil).
• “Water from October 1 until April 1. Daffodils require fall-winter-spring watering; drought causes poor blooming.
• “No herbicides (sandy soils let chemicals percolate too fast and reach the roots).
• “Daffodils are not fertilizer dependent, but love potash, and prefer a neutral soil pH. You can lightly fertilize in the fall and right after blooming with a low-nitrogen fertilizer. No slow-release fertilizers.
• “Do not plant next to heavy feeders such as roses and daylilies — summer watering and fertilizer will rot daffodil bulbs.”

I guess my question would be that how does a narcussus/daffoldil bulb know where it is planted?? If they grow perfectly well here without prechilling in my very mild zone 9 climate, why wouldn't they grow equally well in any other zone 9 climate?? It is sufficient winter chill that is the issue, nothing else.

Do you know of any white varieties, maybe with some yellow in the center, that may do well in 8b, coastal SC ?

n.triandrus and tazetta varieties

Gardengal, they bloom the season following when planted but most won't come back. I rely on bulbs that Old House Gardens say will grow reliably in my area and no one else. I have wasted $$$$ by relying on descriptions from others that were nothing more than overselling.

If the bubs don't return then there must be something else limiting their growth. My winter climate is also very mild - see my zone designation - but ALL spring flowering bulbs do exceedingly well here. In fact, just north of me but still bordering Puget Sound with its very moderating marine influence, is the most prolific bulb growing county in the country. More bulbs - primarily daffodils, tulips and bulbous iris - are grown in WA state's Skagit Valley than anywhere outside of the Netherlands!! These are commercial bulb fields!!

Why then do all these bulbs grow, thrive and return so well in my zone 8/9 without any prechilling or digging and storing, etc. and do not in a similar winter climate?? And why do so many other bulb growing authorities indicate that specific selection or prechilling are not requirements in mild winter climates?

There is something off in that equation :-))

Some do very well for me and slowly but surely they're naturalizing. But for me, 2/3 of the ones I bought classified as suitable for z9, are not. As you say, there are other factors that enter the equation. I just wished that early on, before I dropped oodles of cash, the info would have been easily available (or available at all) to me. W/o getting into specifics, I can say I planted 20+ z9 varieties but only 6-7 are reliable and thrive.

A reason I'm posting here is so that if another Houstonian gardener reads this, they'll get into daffies w/more sober expectations. IOW, bitching can be purposeful, sometimes, ha.

Your PNW climate is not at all like ours. That's the reason...when did you last live in Texas?

I realize that! And there is really no need to be snarky.

That's why I said it has to be something other than the mild winters/lack of winter chill that restricts growth in more southern locations. The zones only reflect winter cold temperatures and a zone 8/9 winter in the PNW is not going to be any different than a zone 8/9 winter in Texas or Alabama or Georgia. The winter temperatures are going to be very similar........that is ALL the zone designations are based on. Therefore the need to prechill in southern climates yet not in mine cannot be valid just based on winter temps.

So please explain to me what is so different about your winters that limits bulb growth? And why do so many other bulb growing resources indicate that narcissus selection in the south is NOT a critical factor?

Gardengal, IDK. I try to be careful about stating my experience is particular to my area and the importance of looking around local gardens vs. relying on sellers that just want to move bulbs. Many of these guys do not elaborate on the other factors to which you allude. And maybe research is up to the gardener, not the seller.

I actually feel it's more the hot humid summers, and how fast our summers come on, versus winter chill. I can see that with some of the later flowering narcissus in particular.

Most sources I see rate bulbs as 9W/7S (like that) as heat limits. Being 7 myself, I've always seen poor performance in some (but not all) of the tulips, daffodils, alliums, and the like. There really is a difference.

I've lived in the north myself (for a few years only) and it's quite different even being in z5 and midwest still. I have never gardened for more than a few weeks (relatives houses) in the Far West or PNW, but having visited, I have some feel for how lucky you guys are being able to grow almost anything.

Of course you may feel that way with the way some plants respond to our summer heat and sheer solar output. There's a reason our climate rating is humid subtropical (lol...and it means I hate the outside air about now).

That would be a reasonable assumption if it were not for the fact that most spring flowering bulbs are summer dormant and should therefore be immune or unfazed by high summer humidity.

It really is a bit of a puzzler, as I can find nothing in any research or bulb resource that would explain this.

Dormant doesn't mean immune...in most cases that indicates they are from a region that doesn't have much moisture available at the time of dormancy (otherwise there would be no need for dormancy to have evolved). It's just a theory...but...

Can you explain to me how high summer humidity - an atmospheric condition - can impact a bulb that is buried 4 inches or more in the ground? I am not seeing the connection.............

It's moisture that the bulb isn't adapted to during it's dormant season. You are aware that higher humidity can cause flowering in plants (example is barometer bush, rain lilies)?

Is it difficult to understand that a plant could have issues with more moisture than it was adapted to deal with? Many species of bulbs (Tecophilaea for instance) will rot if much moisture occurs during their dormancy.

Perhaps there are plants that are adapted to drier dormancy periods and react unhappily to more moist climates.

And do you suppose that higher atmospheric humidity might aggravate conditions underground, causing moisture underground to be retained longer, and thus exascerbating the bulb's distress?

It's also true that the soil temperatures warm significantly more than more alpine areas (which are often where most bulbs are native), we have no nighttime (or little) cooling to offset daytime heat.

High atmospheric humidity does not necessarily translate to a moisture retentive soil - the two are not directly related.

Would you then argue that drying potential is the same given 20% humidity and 70%?