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Rose Growth Rate

Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

Hello. I was wondering if anyone with more experience with own-root roses knew about how their growth spurts worked. I have about 70+ roses that I purchased last year around June-August, mostly in trade gallon sizes from Heirloom Roses.

After some hiccups with a couple of them dying, I now have a sizeable garden of roses that greatly vary in size (I understand that different roses are going to have different degrees of vigor).

One, "Blue for You", is the tallest non-climbing rose, at a height of nearly 6 feet and a width of about 2-3 feet after only one year.

Another, "Climbing Old Blush", is a monster, with shoots that extend up the front of my house at a length of about 10-12 feet.

Another, "Anna's Promise", is still the exact same size that it was when I planted her. She puts out new growth and buds just like all the other roses, but never gets any bigger.

The other 70+ roses are at varying degrees of height and width. The thing is that most of them put on most of their growth last year about 3-4 months after I planted them, but this year they seem to be doing nothing. I thought that the saying was that the first year they sleep, the second year they creep, and the third year they leap? It appears that they did their leaping the first year, and now they are sleeping going into their second year.

Maybe I'm just impatient, but I am eager to see them reach their mature size (I made sure that all the roses I purchased reached at least around 3-4 feet in height and width) so I can start pruning them into the shape I want (a lot of them have unruly canes or gangly growth that I don't want to prune because I figure they need all the energy they can get to grow an extensive root system). On average, when do own-root roses reach their mature size? Is the fact that they currently seem to be sleeping cause for concern if they are still putting out buds and blooming? Finally, is the fact that I am in zone 8b going to cause their mature size to be larger than the mature size that is typically quoted (something that I would actually be happy about?)

Thanks.

Comments (31)

  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    6 years ago

    Wow it would take a very long time to answer this. I'll try to touch on a few things. One is pruning, after winter when it's pruning time in Texas go ahead and prune. You do not need to wait for their mature size to be reached

    The size of a rose is dependent on so many factors. To name a few the type of rose wether or not it is grafted and what the grafted root stock is or if its own root. How far down you prune, how much water they get, how you fertilize and on and on. You could have a neighbor with the same rose as you do and there could be a sizable difference in growth. I have moved many roses when they did not grow as anticipated. Even after extensive research. It is tough to start with so many roses but others have been there done that. I can say that since you live in zone 8 expect the larger size when looking at the size estimates. Where I live in Illinois I tend to look at the shorter size.

    A lot of it comes with experience you will learn how different roses grow in your area. An example would be most Austin roses will grow much larger than the stated size. As you have time, look up your roses one at a time and read what others have said. You can google them on the internet or search on here above where it says search in gardenweb. I'll probably think of a hundred things yet so may be back. Anyway try to relax and have fun. Everything will fall into place eventually. At least you live in a climate where if necessary roses can live in pots till you decide where to plant them.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I'll have a lot of research to do, then! I don't even remember the names of some of the cultivars that I've purchased. I do know that I fertilize them all every week, alternating between MiracleGro rose food and fish emulsion, and water them after fertilizing them, so I probably spend more time on them than the casual gardener. Pruning is just something that I haven't done to them yet, and I need to get over my fear of harming them by pruning them when they have only been in the ground a year. Thanks, I look forward to your advice.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    6 years ago

    Take the above advice from an expert grower! I'm just a newbie, but I think fertilizing them every week is too much, especially with the MiracleGro. Size also depends on variety, so look them up on helpmefind.com to see the minimum height and increase it for your zone as suggested above.Young roses need to be pruned to shape, something I learned this year.

    That's a lot of roses. Keep the tags on them and write notes and do a plan showing where each is planted. My tags fell off my Hydrangeas and I'd be lost if I didn't know what I had where. Different types of roses need different pruning, so post what roses you have and someone can help, I'm sure.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I actually had a plan showing where each was planted, but I only used it initially to ensure that I didn't plant two similar colors next to each other (I wanted a rainbow of color). Come to think of it, I can name almost all of my roses by looking at them. One, Flamenco Rosita, is a spreading monster that could probably use some pruning right now. She's spreading to a diameter of 7 feet right now. I'll probably try to peg her (as it is the canes are spreading and bending downwards, resulting in many laterals sprouting along the length of the cane).

  • modestgoddess z6 OH
    6 years ago

    I also have Flamenco Rosita and it gets big

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked modestgoddess z6 OH
  • Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here are a few pruning links to get you started thou this is not the right time to prune yet. Paul Zimmerman has good down to earth rose advice.Introduction, Shrub & Hybrid Tea Pruning – Paul Zimmerman Roses - Introduction To Rose Pruning - YouTube

    Paul had a beautiful specimen of Flamenco Rosita that he lost to rrd. It was huge.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked Patty W. zone 5a Illinois
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I'm glad I don't have to worry about RRD, because from what I know it hasn't spread to my region yet, and all of my roses are own-root so I don't have to worry about infected rootstock. It sounds awful to have to trash a rose you've grown for years.

  • towandaaz
    6 years ago

    Super, I'm in Zone 8b in a dryer climate and I was just garden journaling about this summer. Many of my roses when into kind of a bloom dormancy over this past summer when the temps averaged over 93-95 degrees. The weather has just begun to shift here and I see a lot of new growth, new basal breaks, some nice blooms and many buds. Especially roses I received this past Spring. As part of what others have said, heat could be a factor, too. I'm noting this in my journal so I know what to expect in my climate when it gets hot. I wonder if you'll experience a growth spurt, too?

    I also have a lot of very young roses (1-2 years) and some of them really do come into their stride as they age.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked towandaaz
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    6 years ago

    I think it is great to watch them and let them grow naturally for 3 years or so before pruning. You're just getting to know each other. I think that does strengthen them. I'm talking about own root roses and not grafted Hybrid Teas. I would also back off on the fertilizing.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I do notice some new growth on a couple of the roses with the slightly lower high temperatures. Some that were beginning to languish in the heat are putting out new growth as well. Still haven't seen any new basal breaks yet, though.

    What exactly would happen if I fertilize too much? It was my understanding that as long as you provide enough water that there is no risk of burning. By the way, I bet I'm actually fertilizing less than it sounds like. I basically mix 5 tablespoons of MiracleGro in 5 gallons of water and give each of the roses about a quart of that solution. Same with the fish emulsion. I think it's typical to give roses more than a quart of fertilizer a week. I could be wrong, though.

  • User
    6 years ago

    Wow,that is so impressive that you got your roses to grow so fast; I'm kind of envious, lol<! Mine only get watered in their first year,get as much organic matter as possible, and get one dose of granular chemical fertilizer in spring,and they grow very slowly (my garden has no running water and I have way too many roses to be able to coddle them anyway). However,leaving "envy" aside, I do agree that it would be wiser to cut down on the Miracle-gro fertilizer. Chemical fertilizers should be used with parsimony, if at all. I think that Paul Zimmerman considers them a total waste of money,for example. I've found that since my soil is so poor my roses do benefit from their one dose, but this is just to tide them over until I finally get enough organic matter. Chemicals build up in the soil, I fear, and that is not a good thing. Organic stuff is a different matter. I wonder if maybe they have slowed down/stopped growing in part because you've built up too much chemicals in your soil..I think that one of the best things to use for basal breaks is alfalfa .This is very high in nitrogen and totally organic.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked User
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Ahh, but that is a common misconception about chemical fertilizers. The plants literally only "see" nutrients. It is true that chemical fertilizers won't do anything to improve the soil the way organic fertilizers do, but they "build up" just the same way as organic fertilizers.

    For instance, phosphorus in the form of bone meal is just as likely to cause a phosphorus overload in the soil as chemical superphosphate. Of course, since bone meal has less phosphorus per gram compared to the chemical superphosphate it is easier to overdo superphosphate but both will build up in the soil over time.

    The amount of MiracleGro solution doesn't sound like too much to me. The ARS suggests a weekly fertilizer program for "Mainline Rose Junkies" that involves alternating chemical fertilizers with organic fertilizers. Kitty Belendez, who is apparently a master rosarian with 350+ roses in her garden, also uses chemical fertilizers (in addition to organic ones, of course). That said, I'll probably cut back on the chemical fertilizers (not always MiracleGro, but whatever is the cheapest 10-10-10 or better fertilizer out there) to once for every two times I use organic fertilizers, only to build the soil some more right now before fall and winter hit (although my roses didn't go dormant last year).

    I do use alfalfa meal frequently. I just made and distributed a dry organic blend last week that had a lot of alfalfa meal in it. Hopefully when it starts breaking down it will give the roses a boost of growth hormone.

    I actually have a whole lot of roses as well (70+, I should probably count sometime but can't be bothered), so I don't really coddle them either. I do make sure I fertilize them frequently, though, and make sure they are watered a lot. It would definitely make it hard without running water, though.

  • boncrow66
    6 years ago

    You are so close to The Antique Rose Emporium they would be a great resource for you and would be able to assist with growth rate and size.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked boncrow66
  • ValRose PNW Wa 8a
    6 years ago

    Too much available Nitrogen can burn plants causing scorched areas on the leaves as well as root damage. If your not seeing scorched damage, you are probably not damaging your roses with fertilizer.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked ValRose PNW Wa 8a
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Yeah, it is pretty close by. Checking out their mature varieties of roses would give me a good idea of how big mine would get of the same variety.

    I have occasionally seen scorch damage on a handful (maybe 2-3) roses before, but I fixed that with extra watering. I guess I'm not doing damage to the vast majority of my roses with fertilizer. Either way, I am still going to lower the frequency of chemical fertilizer use for now.

    I have some granular slow-release fertilizer as well that I haven't used since I've read that young own-root plants don't like granular fertilizer (Heirloom Roses won't even warranty plants that you use granular on). When exactly is it safe to use, then? They're all 1 year old.

  • BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
    6 years ago

    There are many points for discussion here, but I just wanted to add that if a rose has six feet of new growth, it can well be considered established, and you should feel free to do some rather substantial pruning. Every plant establishes and grows at its own rate. Not pruning first year roses is a good general rule. But if a rose has already become huge regardless of age, some pruning may be beneficial to generate flowering canes.

    I have Blue for You coming next week. I'm encouraged that its vigorous for you, since I'm in Texas too. Does it bloom well and hold its color?


  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Mine's only seems to bloom at the top of her monster basal canes (they are what is reaching near 6 feet). When I saw those basal canes coming up, I couldn't bring myself to cut them short to encourage bushier growth. I imagine she would have bloomed all over if I had trimmed those basal canes short. She is starting to grow canes near her base now, though, so the bare legs look was only temporary. The color, as is typical for roses, is more true in cooler weather (a lavender-blue). When it is hotter the color is closer to a pinkish-purplish color. That said, she's in full sun, so perhaps if you plant your's in an area with afternoon shade you might get blooms that are lavender-blue.

  • BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
    6 years ago

    Thank you very much, Superteeth. I'll plant her in a pot in morning sun to see how she does. Most my mauves and purples turn magenta or pink at various times, too.

  • User
    6 years ago

    Sorry,Superteeth. In comparison to my roses, yours DEFINITELY are coddled, lol!

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked User
  • barbarag_happy
    6 years ago

    In addition to helpmefind.com, the Antique Rose Emporium website is a great source of size information for us warm-zone growers. Wish i still lived in driving distance of ARE.

    We are very windy here (coastal SE Virginia) so I stake any really tall growth on my roses. I'm not worried if I don't see a lot of top growth; some roses need to make a lot of root growth first.. I also remove the buds during the 3 to 6 months the new own-roots are in pots.

    It is striking how different classes of roses seem to develop; my two tallest both have lots of hybrid tea genes (Beverly and Dark Desire) and the two smallest are a China and a Bourbon. And the modern shrub roses are all over the map, depending on the parents.

    The biggest surprise I've ever had is the miniature Sweet Chariot which quickly grew to be five feet wide! And I put in a border of Peach Drift and had to remove every other one.

    Sleep, creep, leap is the most useful saying in rosedom. Especially with own-roots.

    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked barbarag_happy
  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Bart, yes, I guess you can say I coddle them. I definitely spend more time on them than the casual rose grower. Just one thing I'm not good at is catching blackspot before it starts defoliating the roses. I luckily caught it making a reappearance about two days ago, and am starting a spraying regimen.

    Barbarag, sleep, creep, and leap is what seems to be off for me. What my roses are doing is varying wildly between varieties. I'm sure most people would have shovel-pruned my Anna's Promise by now, what with her not doing anything her entire first year, but I just can't bring myself to do that to them.

  • User
    6 years ago

    One year of doing nothing is no reason to sp a rose,IMO

  • DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
    2 years ago

    Superteeth -- I'm wondering how your roses are doing now, three years after your post -- and if you have any pictures to share? Any hard-won wisdom and advice?

  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Hey Deborah, I've gotten a couple more roses now, bringing the total to close to 100 roses. I've lost some over the years but have a lot of my original collection that I posted about 3 years ago. For the most part they do get really big, a lot of them even bigger than the estimated sizes that are listed on sites like helpmefind.com (which I use a lot as a resource as far as mature rose sizes). I guess that has a lot to do with having a longer growing season than most (not as long as yours though!)

    I will say this as far as rose wisdom goes: I now know to pay attention to the growth habit of a rose before buying it. If the growth habit isn't upright and bushy (but not overly so, wider than tall doesn't work in a rose bed with a lot of roses in it), then I probably won't be interested in it. There are specific roses I have in areas where I want climbers. Trying to prune a climber as a bush doesn't really work.

    Also, it's not a huge deal if my roses don't go dormant in the winter, freezes don't kill them in this zone (there was even a huge cold snap this February in Texas and even though temperatures dropped to as low as 8 degrees and some of my roses died to the ground those were all own-root and came back from it really quickly). I was always really worried about the fact that my roses didn't ever go dormant even as colder weather was approaching. This information is obviously zone-dependent so if you do live a colder zone it's a good idea to hold back on pruning/fertilizing as colder weather approaches.

    Another thing is that it's very true that prepping the soil where you're planting the roses is far more important than how you feed them afterwards. For the most part I don't feed the roses all too frequently but the soil they're in had a lot of time put into it. The holes were dug deep and wide, and plenty of organic matter was mixed into them.

    Another thing that I don't think some people realize is that they should really let their roses do their own thing until they do reach their mature sizes or close to it. They want to grow to their mature size, pruning too much before that (other than removing dead growth) is probably more of a hindrance to the roses than anything. That goes back to one of the things I pointed out earlier, trying to control a rose's growth habit is a losing battle, and if you want to put a rose in an area that needs a smaller rose, don't keep chopping back one that wants to grow big. Find one with similar characteristics that has a smaller mature size instead.

    I don't really take pictures of my roses and I do have some weeding to do in my rose bed, but I will post back here with some pictures...eventually. I will definitely keep you in mind though! Just want to get the weeding done first, it looks shameful as-is!

  • DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
    2 years ago

    Thanks, superteeth. One thing I've learned -- if I wait for ideal conditions to take my photos -- I will never take photos! Your garden HAS to look better than mine. Deer came through again last night. I might literally have to give up on roses if I can't find a way to deter them. It's too expensive and heartbreaking to have this keep happening. Maybe I can start a "go fund me" for a new house with a tall fence...


    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Superteeth: Thanks for your original report of OWN-ROOTS Blue for You being 6 feet tall, vs. Anna Promise doesn't grow much. Anna Promise is a waterhog and died in my zone 5 through a dry winter. What are your TALL and VIGOROUS own-roots? Your report of which are vigorous and which don't grow much help cold-zoners like me a lot. Thank you.

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Thank you, Superteeth for taking the time to write about your vigorous own-roots, much appreciated. Hot Cocoa was loaded at nearby rose park, zone 5, with more blooms than leaves, very impressive. I grow Belinda's Dream (grafted on Dr.Huey), very vigorous in 2nd year. Midnight blue, Flamenco Rosita, and Easy does it are on my wish-list.

  • Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b)
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Strawchicago, no problem! However, I have a Belinda's Dream grafted on Fortuniana, which is supposed to be the most vigorous rootstock (I'm sure it generally is), but the own-root one is a lot more vigorous. It's really odd. Ivor's Rose is great, one of my favorites. Especially if you give her as much room as she wants to grow. Mine is about 8 feet in diameter, and still throwing out longer and longer canes! Kind of a spider-like rose, but great blooms and a nice tea scent.

  • DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
    2 years ago

    @Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) - I hope you find some peace and motivation in the coming weeks. I imagine that must be hard to want to garden and not quite have the wherewithal to actually do it. Grace to you.


    @strawchicago z5 - I know my zone reports don't help you, necessarily, but my own-root Hot Cocoa and own-root Munstead Wood just planted in June are superstars right now boht in terms of vigorous growth and buds. I'm so impressed. Also think I'm going to love April Love -- planted in a pot in July from own-root, and is covered in buds, lots of growth. Basically, I'm impressed with all of my Heirloom own-roots, but Hot Cocoa and Munstead Wood are a cut above (but Jacqueline du Pre and Koko Loco are not far behind...).


    Superteeth (Elgin, TX 8b) thanked DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago

    Deborah: Thank you for the info. on vigorous own-root. Agree on Hot cocoa and Munstead Wood as own-roots. Will look up April Love, Jacqueline de Pre and Koko Loco.