Autumn is indeed a beautiful season here in Italy; so welcome after the ugliness of summer! Sad to say, I haven't been able to enjoy it much; I caught broncho-pnemonia (probably during that visciously hot 10-day period at the end of July/beginning of August?) and have been stuck indoors. I hope I might be able to risk going out to my land next week, though I think I'll put off going to the city to the dentist, etc, for now; I think it might be wise to avoid public transportation for the present. So as of now I am way, way behind schedule, and don't know if I'll be able to dig those roses out for you by October, Melissa! But we can always "do" Plan B; that is, I send them to you.

Where did you get your Noella Nabonnand? I have 2 plants, own-root.which I got from Nino Sanremo,but neither one seems to want to grow. The flowers are so beautiful; maybe I just have a bad clone?

I was twenty minutes into an answer, hit the wrong button, and lost it all. I hate that. Bart, I'm sorry you've been sick, and on top of such a bad summer. I hope you're able soon to get back to enjoying your garden! I've just started thinking about my fall trip to Tuscany and haven't yet gotten in touch with Anna-Lyssa about it. I'm not sure what to do about your plants. I can pay for shipping if that's how you want to get them to me. I don't want to offer to dig them; aside from an increasing, probably age-related disinclination for heavy physical work, my elbow has been bothering me for some time now and I don't think it's a good idea to put it under that kind of strain. There's a reason my helper digs my holes. I'm open to solutions that save your body and mine. I gather we're both somewhat creaky: I know I am. I was thinking, if this works for all, of leaving after October 8, the second day of our local garden show, "Frutti Antichi" at Paderna, which I attend most years. As I said, I'll have to get in touch with Anna-Lyssa about coming. I do want to take a trip. We've been nailed down here all summer by the weather and the need to water. More later. Melissa

Next to taking photos, Melissa, your talent with words calls up pictures of your garden in my mind quite adequately, and I remember past photographs. I do think the 3 inches of rain (which here would be regarded as super-phenomenal) has saved quite a few of your plants. Since so much of our property is unplanted except for trees (and weeds) I sometimes wonder why you put in the hard work of ensuring that every part of your much larger property is planted. You mention your general "creakiness" and, with time and global warming advancing, I can't help but wonder how you will be able to keep it all up.

bart, I'm so sorry about your illness. It's wise that you're keeping yourself somewhat isolated and are (hopefully) resting. There is nothing more important than your health, not even the roses. Take care.

We haven't heard from Anna-Lyssa in quite some time and I wonder how she's doing, and how well her garden has fared since she last wrote. Please tell her hello and that we miss her posting here. I've posted when my garden has been a disaster and even took the pictures to prove it, and the support here helped me to carry on. We'd love to do the same for her.

Ack, I hate that, when I write a long, thoughtful post and then for one reason or another ,it disappears.

Thank you for your good wishes, Ingrid. Boy has this year ever been rough for me.

Melissa, I think the only option will be to send the plants to you. There's no way I'll be able to have them ready by October 8th; -that's in a week. I plan to see the doc tommorrow and will ask him if I can go back to work, but I know I won't be up for digging out relatively established climbing roses any time soon; at most maybe I'll be able to plant out a potted one, and a couple perennials,and I certainly won't be able to go out there on a daily basis to work; I'll have to get back into it very, very gradually. I also had to cancel and re-schedule several appointments due to this illness, so that's more stuff to recuperate. I've decided to get my hip replaced, too,so once I'm comfortable with the idea of running around again (or, to be accurate I suppose I should say "limping around", lol) going to see the surgeon with my DH to discuss that is going to be a big priority. This is just too dis-abling! besides the doc says that now the prosthesises are very durable...

Bart, good luck with your return to health. I wanted to say, I don't want you or me to wreck our bodies digging up plants, particularly not your body for plants that will ornament my garden. Not fair. It's possible that I may find myself in shape to dig, though. The shovel and I are not totally alienated.

I didn't mean I was thinking of taking off right after October 8th, merely that my (hypothetical) trip would perforce be later than that. It could be a week later, for example. I just wrote to Anna-Lyssa. It would be nice to hear how she's doing in any case: she's been silent on the forum recently, as far as I know. I miss her cheerful voice.

About 'Noella Nabonnand', my plant is grafted, and I got it from Walter Branchi way back in 2003 or 2004. It's the correct variety (there's an imposter in circulation, I don't know if it's in Italy). I also have a cutting-grown offspring that's not doing that well, but it's in a bad spot and this has been a bad year, so I don't know whether its condition is due to its being own root or to the poor site, weather, drought, etc. It would be worthwhile to look into whether others have good ownroot plants.

Ingrid, thanks. I agree that a picture's worth a thousand words; all the same, I believe in the power of words, and am always up to the challenge of finding the right ones. Aack, I forgot to add your message to Anna-Lyssa to my e-mail. I'll try to remember the next time.

Planting the big garden. I'm fortunate to have active strong helpers, including DH, who, though he passed eighty a while back, has a Rolls-Royce body (Seriously. His joints don't creak.) and shows no signs of wanting to leave the stage soon. Ditto my helper, who digs all the holes I ask, and they're many. I'm not very strong or very energetic, but I do have enough vim to amend and fill holes, weed, and do skilled tasks like pruning. So we're good to go for the moment at least. Anyway, what I want is an environmentally sustainable, beautiful garden. I like variety, I like to be able to wander around at length, I like the challenge of finding the right plant for the conditions, including my impossible garrigue area where nothing grows, or the thin soil over piled rocks: a very difficult site. I like the idea of improving the soil, increasing the quantity of biomass, raising oxygen production, providing flowers for the bees ("to set swelling more, and still more, later flowers for the bees,/ Until they think warm days will never cease,/ Till summer has o'erbrimmed their clammy cells"), providing a home for native plants and rare roses, especially the much-neglected once bloomers that do so well here and are so beautiful. I have beauty on my mind, very much. And health. Down beneath everything is an idea of harmony, synthesis, equilibrium: in my own fashion I believe I adhere to the classical ideal. A final note: while the garden occupies perhaps a hectare, the entire property is about thirteen hectares of mainly meadow and wood, so the garden is still only a minor part of the land.

Melissa, how lovely. I hope you carry on with hubby another twenty years.

Ahhh how sweet of you to care that I've been absent! After the dreary July-August torment to the garden I was swept up with visitors from home (my sister and active children!) and then a whirlwind at work.

The garden is recovering! I'll post some photos, but photos will NOT convey just how delicious it is to smell wet soil, and yes even mushrooms! in the air.

Most of the roses are not giving me much in terms of blooms but I don't care! I am just so happy we made it through this summer. A nice healthy cane with good foliage is enough for me!

And there are so many shrubs in bloom: Choisya ternata, osmanthus, the ivy....

'Souvenir de la Malmaison', 'Golden Celebration', orange and lime blossoms...

'Gartentraume'

Here is autumn looking very springlike. But look at the SOIL. it's not dry.

'Marie Pavie'

'William Morris', 'Lamarque'

'Prosperity' against a background of boxwood that SUFFERED NOT at the hands of the box moth.

No box moth this year!!!

And the big star of 2017:

'Perle d'Or'.... Perle d'Or has been blooming NONSTOP in a small pot.

I am obsessed with this rose. Every day it's a new work of art.

Right now, as I mentioned to Melissa (and she will witness this), I'm working on getting the two monster climbers under control on the garage (Lamarque & lady banks). Exhibit A:

I'm halfway there. SO MUCH FUN. Lamarque is now reaching around the front of the garage, which is DREAMY.

So much to do but so busy! I have to catch up on all the threads here, I have no idea what is going on in peoples' gardens.

Oh by the way, the two large trees in the slope (the one I wanted to train a climber up)... dead! To be cut down by the end of the month.

And here is Lamarque reaching around...

Oh one more VERY important rose related garden item:

HIPS.

Bobbie James.

Spectacular.

Rosa canina

Love the photos! My "Eddie' Crimson" hips sadly all just dried up. Don't know why. I have nice hips on "Alba Maxima". Your hips are fabulous, Anna-Lyssa!

Oooooh, wonderful! Thanks for the photos!

Melissa is here! And what a generous guest she brought me four gallica! Among other things! :) Charlie is in love.

I dunno... if he were really in love, wouldn't he share the sofa?

Great photo!

Have a good time, you two ladies (and Charlie)! I'm so sorry I had to bow out; actually, I got re-infected and am once again on anti-biotics and cortisone; I could just scream from frustration if I wasn't so out of breath ,lol. But I was wise to go with my instincts...Hopefully some time in the future I'll get a chance to "re-do".

That IS a splendid photo. My DH once commented on how black-and-white film tends to somehow "work" really well for portraits, and I fully agree.

Bart I’m so sorry to hear that!!! We’re thinking of you!! Yes, Charlie wanted to share but Melissa really wanted to sit on the floor! He was real disappointed. ;)

I'm so glad I looked in on this thread, Melissa, and was able to read your wonderful comments on your garden; what a gift you have for writing. I think we share many of the same ideals, although in my case the cultivated area is much smaller. I feel great satisfaction that I have enough plants and trees to keep the bees happy, and they love my gently sloping birdbath where they feel secure that they won't drown. It's hot and dry again and they're very thirsty. My garden shelters many creatures although I can create this haven for them only with added water.

Anna-Lyssa, we're so happy to hear from you and to see that your garden is thriving. I'm amazed at how quickly everything grows for you. Your climbers are amazing. What a marvelous picture of Melissa and her adoring companion.

bart, I'm so sorry that life is not being kind to you at the moment. Your roses will have to take a back seat until you completely recover. Everyone I know who has had a hip replacement says they wish they had done it sooner, although at first it must seem like a daunting prospect. I wish you all the best.

Bart, You have a need for a redo of a hip replacement? I thought you were needing a first one.

No, Sheila, you are right, I need the first one! Thanks for you good wishes and thoughts, Ingrid and Anna-Lyssa. Actually in my case both the doctor and my DH (who is a brilliant physical therapist) were of the opinion that I should put it off as long as possible, given my activity (extreme gardening in conditions that are challenging both in the morphological sense and otherwise) and my character,but it has become clear that this isn't possible. I guess one of the reasons for putting it off is that the prosthesises don't last forever and eventually do need replacement ,though apparently since more and more "young" people are needing this operation they have improved the life-span of the prothesises. Another concern of my husband's is/ was that in the course of my activities I could risk just popping the thing out of the socket with a fall, or would logorate it by crouching, squatting, etc. So I have to get to work on improving my garden paths and mounting a railing on some steep steps. I've also been "practicing my moves"; that is ,how to do certain things correctly : kneeling on one knee, for example, instead of squatting,etc ,though this thing about squatting will have to be clarified eventually with the surgeon, since apparently my sister who had her hip re-done a couple years ago can squat away. I feel a lot better now that I've accepted the situation and made the decision; it's clear it's the only way to go. I can't walk well at all,and, as I said before, I think just dealing with the undercurrent of constant stress caused by living with pain is weakening my general health. What's got me worried mostly now is : when will I be well enough to get back to work, to make those paths and railings??? And I'm so far behind with planting out my potted plants; only have managed to get 3 done,out of 40 or so...Hiring someone is kind of off the table at present, for financial reasons. Also, I would have to find the "right sort" of person for this job; not an easy prospect.

Hopefully melissa and Anna-Lyssa will tell about their visit so we can all enjoy it vicariously. And thank you all for your kindly thoughts and concern.

I'm really glad to hear there was no infection related to hip replacement, Bart. My husband had a L hip resurfacing in Belgium with Dr. Koen DeSmet and is very happy with it. He can do everything and these don't dislocate and less need for redo needed. Good luck in any case getting all caught up before surgery. It's always something. Great you have PT in house.

bart, it's funny... when my husband needed a knee replacement recently, he was encouraged to do it sooner so that if he would need the replacement replaced, he might still be young enough for the later surgery. So there's certainly more than one way to look at it, and regardless of what you decide about the timing of the first surgery, I hope you will be very careful about fall prevention, and doing gentle stretching exercizes to keep you limbered up. An ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure...

And instead of looking for the "right person" to help, could you look for someone who wants to learn about gardening, and roses? But perhaps that's what you mean by the right person... someone who's willing to learn what you know, and do what you can't?

Good luck and please take care,

Virginia

Anna-Lyssa, I think you'll eventually need to visit Melissa so that you can do her portrait for the book jacket of her gardening memoir. Best done in situ, yes?

You ladies are so sweet to take an interest in me troubles and your good wishes are much, much appreciated; thank you.. I'm going to Google "L hip resurfacing" to find out what it is. In any case hopefully my DH has found a good surgeon for the job,though we haven't been able to speak with him yet; I have to resolve these respiratory/bronchitis issues first. It sure as heck "always is something", lol!

"Someone who wants to learn about gardening, and roses" sounds to me like EXACTLY the "right person", Virginia!!!

What a lovely thread! I agree with Ingrid that you have an elegant writing style, Melissa. Your writing is so descriptive that I can see your September garden perfectly. I loved seeing your picture at Anna-Lyssa’s house. I enjoy having a face to go with a frequent poster. Most people don’t ever show themselves, but I occasionally do. I like the extra bit of human connection.

Anna-Lyssa, it’s great to hear from you and see what’s going on in your garden! I’m so glad you got some rain. Things are looking great. I hope that you’re getting lots of joy out of your garden again. I’ve finally learned that late Sum­mer is no time to decide how I feel about my garden. My feelings are just too tainted by heat, bugs, and general exhaustion. Unfortunately our hot season ends with a “grand finale” of burning heat, which we are currently in the midst of.

Bart, I do hope your chest infection is getting better. That’s no fun. I know exactly what you mean about not letting just anybody work in your garden. People pull out things that they think are weeds, that have taken you years to grow from seed, or do something else totally wrong even though they’re just trying to help. I don’t know if you feel this way, but I feel that having a helper involves a great deal of work on MY part. Most people don’t understand that. I can’t just send someone out there and say, “. Pull the weeds, Plant these things, prune these, and tidy up”. I have to feel well enough to show them what are weeds and what are precious baby plants. I have to mix up different mixes for different planting wholes according to the kind of plant and the soil conditions in that position. And I might as well be honest, I haven’t had anyone here yet, that I would have prune my roses. I just mean I have to be well enough to help them. I’m more tired at night when I’ve had a helper, than when I go it alone. I do love it, because so much gets done. Is this the way you feel about having someone come help? Virginia’s suggestion of someone who wants to learn would be perfect! Lisa

In years past, our Fall weather was more or less a match for Melissa's . . . now, not so much.

I took this photo at 11:30 a.m. . . .

Bart, the L was for left. The Dr Koen De Smet in Belgium was really good at Hip resurfacing.

Jeri,

I don't envy your 100F in the middle of October but I do envy your 21" of rain within the year...

Over here the weather is still June like with temps predicted to rise up to the high 70s and no rain in sight.. We've had a grand total of 6" of rain within the year..

I got back home Wednesday evening after tacking a couple of days in Florence onto my weekend visit with Anna-Lyssa. She's a wonderful hostess. We toured her garden and talked plants, went to Florence for the day and saw the Bardini gardens, which I hadn't known existed, and the following day visited the garden of the villa La Gamberaia, a garden that manages to be both solemnly magnificent and friendly. No one ever did grandeur better than the Florentines of the Renaissance. Anna-Lyssa's area is greener than up here, and let me add prettier, and the air quality is better (it could hardly be worse) and her plants certainly grow faster and more vigorously than mine. I went with plants and came back with plants, and hope our two gardens will both be the richer for the exchange.

After the weekend was over and Anna-Lyssa and Fabrizio went back to work I stayed in Florence for a couple of days,
saw the Uffizi and saturated my being with the Florentine Renaissance, with its
air of removal from our time and space, toured all the churches I could
cram in, then drove home. Month after month of high pressure systems have brought about some of the worst air pollution I've ever seen: a yellowish-brownish hazy glare all the way through the Po Plain from Bologna to Lugagnano. A month has passed since our last rain, and (how often have I said this in the last year?) there's no significant rain in the two week forecast. It's very dry. All the drainages are dry, the soil is dry; our neighbors' life-saving pond still has water, a blessing for all concerned. The plants are holding up. It's unseasonally sunny and warm, so that we haven't begun heating yet (I remember when Italy had a winter!), but still the days are shorter and cooler, so that the plants' water needs are less.

I have had an Iphone bestowed upon me and, DD having given me basic instruction in its use, spent some time yesterday taking pictures. But I don't know yet how to upload them and am also not satisfied with their quality, so it will be a while before photos appear. You camera experts, how does one avoid overexposure? Normal daylight (in fall, with a hazy sky) produces overexposed shots: a twinkly mass of undifferentiated foliage dotted with glaring blooms. What do I do about this? I solicit your advice! Drought and all, the mature roses around the house are putting forth a flush, and while with the lack of water the quality of the blooms could be better, that they're blooming at all is impressive, and the beauty is enough.

Hello to all: it's good to be back home. Bart, I'm sorry that you had a relapse, and sorry that we couldn't all get together. I hope your health is improving, and that you are finding a way forward about the hip replacement. This has been a hard year for you: I hope it improves. I look forward to you and me and Anna-Lyssa getting together one day. Nik, you have your own wearing problems with heat and drought and, from the position of my own experiences, I sympathize. This is a difficult year for us all.

I am loath to admit it, but mornings are good for something, and that is taking photos. Late afternoon often works, also, and overcast days are especially good here.

I am a Luddite, so don't own a smart phone; I need a new camera, though, since mine has black spot, and it's getting worse...

Virginia

Greetings from a bus on its way to Milano! I thought I’d post some photos from Melissa’s visit. :) let’s see how well I do on the mobile app today. Oh and it was such a lovely visit, inspiring and with poetry! These are from

our visit to Mondo Rose (nursery):

Rosa mutabilis was especially lovely

A kind of thyme was growing at the base.... Melissa do you remember the variety?

Ok so this will certainly lead to car sickness so here is one last thing from mondo rose.... rose hips mingling with dangling olive branches ❤️

Lovely and inspirational. More to come when not in motion.

In the rush of activities, I completely forgot we started the weekend at Mondo Rose! Which was inspiring. Always good to look at roses.

Melissa, as always, a wonderful thread which includes your delightful prose! I am catching up on reading and responding. I've been "lurking" while focusing on some medical and academic needs of my daughter's but have appreciated following the conversation while in various waiting rooms. It is so great that you and Anna-Lyssa live and garden within travel distance!

Anna-Lyssa, it's wonderful to read your comments and share in your garden adventures again! I was hoping that fall was bringing rejuvenation after summer's blaze. Lovely photos!

Bart, I am so sorry to hear of your reinfection, darn it! (See how nicely I censored my expletive?) Contagious bugs are quite viscous these days. Even common colds are uncommonly prone to go viral, so to speak. Please take care! The garden will still be there begging for attention a week or two or ten from now. Gardens are such squeaky wheels! Mine wouldn't be satisfied with even hourly labors. I tell it that what doesn't annihilate it makes it stronger. :-)

Wishing a quenching, healing autumn to all--Carol

I don't have any outstanding photographic skills but rather a few rules that I follow which produce the best results.

1. If at all possible shoot when there is no sun. Early morning ,just after the sun has gone down, cloudy days, when it's lightly raining - those are the best time for me in my climate.
2. If it is a sunny day, photograph subjects in areas that are shaded, under trees, near buildings etc.
3. If you must photograph in the sun, at least make sure that your camera is shaded.
4. Pay attention to the background. If your rose bloom is gorgeous but it's right next to dead, dying or diseased vegetation, you won't be happy.
5. If your camera is able to crop pictures, you can eliminate a lot of ugly or pedestrian things. Your audience will think your garden is dreamy because they haven't seen the weeds, bare dirt, hose, shovel, bagged soil, wheelbarrow and beautifully aged and rusty propane tank.

I missed your question before, Anna-Lyssa. The thyme is Thymus longicaulis, which I recall as being commonly called "timo al pepe" in Italian, though I didn't find that name when I did a Google search. Remarkably for a thyme, it needs either part shade or some moisture; it creeps about agreeably under shrubs, and is nice to have climbing through prostrate rosemary. You can use it in cooking, though I prefer the dusty sweetness of regular thyme, which however has a hard time finding places to live in my garden. I really need to get a goodlooking clay pot and plant some there.

Ingrid, thanks for the guidelines. It appears that one has to shoot when the light is right. I understand what you mean about ugly elements in the background of photos! Some time ago, before the current iphone era, DD and I went around the garden with her smartphone and she obligingly snapped pictures for me. It was striking how the scraggly black locusts showed up in the photos; I had had no idea to what extent my brain edited out ugly and discordant notes when I looked at my garden. But the photos showed them all.

Carol, I hope your daughter is doing well. I'm glad we've provided you reading matter as you waited. Anna-Lyssa is a good distance away from me, but at least she's reachable, and it is wonderful to have another gardener to talk with and exchange plants with. I hope to see bart one day, too.

It's so dry here, and the forecasts are discouraging: no rain in sight anywhere. Our valley, where thousands of people live, flat ran out of water this year and had to be re-supplied from Liguria, and I'm afraid we're heading right back to that same situation. Of course I can't plant with the weather as it is, and since I put my back out a few days ago I can't do any work at all--I can't even stand up straight, never mind dig holes or lift watering cans, DH gets all the garden chores--and the weather is sheerly depressing. I made a substantial book order yesterday; if I can't do anything else, I'll go live in fictional worlds for a while. This has been a bad year all round: 2017, annus horribilis.

It really has been a pretty dang bad year in many, many ways. The drought situation here in Italy is indeed discouraging, to say the least! and here in Tuscany it hasn't been as bad as in other areas, either. But I'm glad that you two ladies-Melissa and Anna-Lyssa-had a good time and I hope someday to meet up with both of you. It is taking such a long time for me to get well ; I deeply appreciate all kind thoughts and wishes. Best wishes to you and your daughter, Carol.

I've found that Ingrid's idea of photographing when the sun is LOW is pretty brilliant. I don't have a decent camera and it's complicated to put pictures up on Internet ; sometimes our computer "reads" the camera's little card-y thingummybob (how's that for expert high-tech jargon,lol?) and sometimes it doesn't,and that's just the beginning; then you have to learn how to pick out the ones you want, re-size them,and finally try to figure out how to post them! It probably would be much simpler with an Iphone or at least a more modern camera. But I do sometimes take photos anyway and they do really turn out so much better without the blazing sun washing everything out into the "twinkly mass of undifferentiated foliage", as Melissa puts it.

Melissa, annus horribilis is a perfect label. I hope your back heals well and quickly! Back injuries are not only incredibly painful but truly debilitating. I celebrate that you and Anna-Lyssa are developing both a forum and a face-to-face friendship.

Bart, thank you for your thoughts! I'm sending good ones right back to you!

I think you three gardeners of Italy should indeed meet, share fine wine and indulge in all the delightful obsessions of devoted rosarians!

Carol

Melissa! A thyme that likes some shade or moisture?!!! Where do I get in line? Or, rather, where do I get online?

Off to find out,

Virginia

Carol, agreed! ;)

The weather is really lovely in Tuscany now, a mix of mists and sunny days and a bit of rain, some healthy wind....

We're starting to breathe again!

How are you all in California???

Virginia, about the thyme: remember that we're talking about Italian conditions, not those of South Carolina. We had an extremely hot but dry summer, so that the thyme dried up where it wasn't in shade. I suspect it would react differently in the steamy soup of a summer in the southeastern U.S.