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davidrt28

open thread - winter blooming shrubs, 2017-2018

davidrt28 (zone 7)
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago

OK, I'm gonna start it. This is open to anyone zone 1-10, it's fine if you are in California and want to post an interesting winter blooming plant we haven't heard about.

This is a new camellia, 'Dream Angel'. So glad I bought it, after the most cursory glance on the Almost Eden website. I wasn't even there to buy camellias. Here it is blooming in my garden yesterday, after all of the snow and nights in the low 20s we've had. Quite amazing...I was shocked to see it and glad I was perusing that part of the garden to look for animal damage.* One of its parents is the very tough C. yuhsienensis. I'm worried about whether it will be hardy enough to have foliar survival of a really cold, polar vortex type winter around here. But in a way I don't even care, it's just amazing it can bloom after the spell of weather we've been having. I've been looking for a camellia that can do that for a while. The last flowers of 'Survivor' were long since killed off.

* - Foxes, I think, have been bad about digging in odd spots this year.
Not sure why they are doing this - they definitely aren't after the plants, as they tend to dig not right next to one, but a few inches away...not even close enough to really affect it. But I still worry about it exposing the roots to cold so I cover the holes back up.

Comments (51)

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Dave, great! Good to know about another Camellia that blooms well in winter this far north. (or that far north! I'm farther LOL)

    'Kramer's Rote' is an essential winter bloomer and has bloomed every winter to some degree for me, including the polar vortex winters! It bridged the gap between the early winter Mahonias and the early spring witch hazels...I've had something in continuous bloom for many years now. Flower don't mind being covered by snow for weeks, or temps down to 3F. Truly a remarkable plant. The other E. X darleyensis I've tried are either harder to establish or more reticent to bloom, but I'm trying 'Furzey' now so we will see what happens. No blooms this year.

    Generally, given that I'm a "lazy" gardener, I'm finding it's best to let the tiny mail-order Ericas size up in a 1 gallon for a couple years, before planting them out. For the potting I used promix with sand added. 'Furzey' didn't die from drying out this year, which is a problem I have had with the tiny 3 1/4" potted Ericas from the PNW. Maybe you bought 'Kramer's Rote' locally, in a larger size, so didn't have that problem? Or are just a more attentive gardener than me LOL.

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    6 years ago

    'Kramer's Rote' was available at our local Home Depot in gallon sizes. Pretty inexpensive.


    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    6 years ago

    Ooooh, Sara, that's lovely!! I've been noticing mahonias in full bloom here and there in my area as well.

    Currently, although not known for winter blooms, I still have hardy fuchsias blooming. And a cuphea still going strong (no real frost yet)!! Sarcococca of course. And my Grevillea is budded up but hasn't bloomed.........yet.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
  • Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
    6 years ago

    I still have roses blooming! Also Hypericum, lots of succulents (the winter-blooming aloes are just coming on), Lapageria, Hellebores (of course), Camellias, and the Osmanthus are still covered with blossoms. But the big attractions here are foliage, especially in this weak December light. The Leucadendron, Cryptomeria with their plummy winter foliage, Poncircus in fall color, Libertia, Berberis, Ulmus procera 'Aurea' still has most of its golden leaves, and the yellow mugo pines are glowing.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Sara, I thank you, even though your talk of Aloes and Lapagerias fills me with jealousy LOL. Hate to show a pro-mild climate bias here, but a lover of plants has never truly lived until he or she has seen a large blooming Chilean Bellflower vine in person...

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    "'Kramer's Rote' was available at our local Home Depot in gallon sizes. Pretty inexpensive."

    I envy your fancy Northern Virginia Home Depots LOL. I've never looked for it, but I'm pretty sure I've not remotely seen any plant like that around here. Of that rarity and desirability. Only heaths I've seen were 'Springwood Pink',* et al. Though I did once find a Hebe in the bargain bin at the Aberdeen, MD, HD, and it lasted several years until the monsoon of Hurricane Irene drowned it. It was a super tough one with bland white flowers and semi-succulent leaves...maybe H. pinguifolia. Not labeled other than Hebe.

    * - which reminds me that I noticed many years ago some wholesaler was mislabeling a E. carnea as an E. X darleyensis; this was showing up at various nurseries. Can't remember the details anymore, but I bought one of these as the first heath I tried in this garden (had true E. 'Darley Dale' back in my NoVA townhouse garden) and it behaved nothing like E. X darleyensis.

  • Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
    6 years ago

    Well, David, I envy your acid soil and woodland conditions! Camellia, Ericas, Pieris, etc just curl up and die here....

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Yep, gardening has many trade offs. Why don't you try what those crazy Texas blueberry lovers do? Just pour a bunch of sulfuric acid on a corner of your garden...presto, acid soil! I'm sure the California Department of the Environment would love that! (no consequences in TX - fined millions and imprisoned for weeks in CA, probably...long live the USA LOL)

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    6 years ago

    Sara Malone (Zone 9b):

    This Camellia was blooming last week. But in all honestly, I am jealous of your ability to grow citrus!

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    On a completely serious note though...Sara, does your Lapageria die back in colder years? I seem to recall Polo telling me they didn't get as big for him as they do in downtown SF or Berkeley, but I could have misunderstood what he was saying.

    They are definitely worth mentioning here...one of the most superb winter growers, for people who can manage to grow them.


  • Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
    6 years ago

    They would do better in SF or Berkeley but it's all about where you plant them. Well drained soil, protected, morning sun, etc.

    I was at Sonoma Hort today. Looked pretty much the same as it always did, although maybe due to the circumstances I was looking with a more critical eye. The place needs a lot of work. I mean a LOT. The benches are all rotten, the structures in similar condition. Little maintenance has been done over the years (I shudder to think of the irrigation...). That doesn't take away from the beauty and wonder of the plantings, but it demonstrates what a project the new owner is taking on. And what the hell is permaculture, anyway?

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    " And what the hell is permaculture, anyway?"

    I know it doesn't involve very rare cultivars of rhododendron, that's for sure.

    Thanks for the report at any rate. I keep thinking of calling there but figure what's the point. The recent deep discount sale was clearly intended to reduce the stocks of rhodies and raise some cash for the new owner(s). I wasn't in a position where I could fly out there on a lark to get stuff before its gone forever. And I already have my Ericaceous hands full, anyhow. Hopefully various persons in the ARS Norcal chapter have most of the rare stuff in their gardens. Some wouldn't grow here at all, like 'Cornish Cross' but are commercially extinct cultivars these days, in the US at least. And in my opinion worth preserving somewhere on this side of the pond! As of my April 2016 visit, Polo was still actively making crosses. I would love one of the irroratum crosses he had made.

    PS, Sara - which Arbutus is to the left? Is that 'Marina'?

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    PS - bonus points to anybody who can ID the foliage and buds to the north (literally and photographically!) of my Camellia. It is winter blooming too!

    While hollies showed up as a kind of 'honorary winter bloomer' (they are also honorary conifers, based on how often amateurs post them to that forum) I wanted to post a pic of 'Sand Pond'. It has the largest, most luminous berries of any holly in my garden. I'm actually planning future hybrids with other large berried hollies - would hope to someday get a berry close to 1/2". The in-camera HDR kind of goofed up this picture but you can still see the berries are large. Maybe they are so shiny that they over-exposed the sensor LOL.

    Here is a 'Korean Fire' that I didn't even spot a couple weeks ago! Killed by the freezes. Had already started blooming way too early. Dave looks like you are seeing the same thing...that big japonica...that wouldn't normally bloom until March for you? You have older camellias than I do and a longer history of growing them up here in east coast zn 7.

  • bsmith0023 (z8b coastal SC)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Camellia ShiShiGashira just getting heavy..

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked bsmith0023 (z8b coastal SC)
  • Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
    6 years ago

    I forgot Banksia (ericafolia in this shot), Callistemon 'Little John' and Abutilon! (And David, yes that is A. 'Marina' in that shot of the Mahonia.)

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Oh, that Banksia has me drooling! Thanks for the additional pics. You should try to find a Correa 'Sister Dawn', I think it blooms around the holidays out there.

  • Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
    6 years ago

    Check out Banksia 'Schnapper Point':

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Sara Malone (Zone 9b)
  • maackia
    6 years ago

    This thread is just plain cruel. Nothing flowering here. Lows will be pushing -20F next week, so I won’t expect much in the way of blooms antime soon. I do love the pictures though; they help me to keep thinking about gardening.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked maackia
  • sam_md
    6 years ago

    Happy Solstice everyone, winter is indeed upon us. Here are a few tidbits from Londontown Gardens.

    Unnamed camellia with many flowers spent and laying on the ground. The maroon color doesn't show up against the dark camellia foliage.
    Common witchhazel still holding on, this is late for this species.
    Wintersweet with its delicate prefume and wax paper petals.
    Elaeagnus pungens, don't recall the common name. This one is popular for hedging.
    Powder Puff Tree doing its thing. This one is strictly a conservatory tree for us.



    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked sam_md
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    A most excellent post! I have somehow missed ever seeing a wintersweet in bloom, in spite of it being one of the first plants I ever ordered from Woodlanders or Camforest. I can't remember which - they were both definitely the first nurseries I ever mail ordered from, though. I would have been around 12 or 13. Our naughty lab puppy pulled it out of the ground and it wilted, I think I figured it was dead. Didn't know any better back then. The novelty of a plant being described as winter blooming was very appealing.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Speaking of winter blooming plants: https://www.gofundme.com/AustralianNativePlantsFireFund

    What a terrible loss for California horticulture, but it's encouraging to see that they were able to raise some funds for rebuilding.


  • Heruga (7a Northern NJ)
    6 years ago

    Hey Dave, how do you get your daphne odora to survive in your zone and stay very evergreen like that? I know this plant is hardy to zone 7a right on the edge of your zone(and mine) and I'm wondering how you keep it thriving without cold damage. Do you have it in a protected place? Northern NJ temps are supposed to drop to 0 F this saturday night...

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    FWIW my experience with D. odora has been winter hardiness isn't usually the issue...and if you're actually in 7a that would probably be the case for you. (polar vortex type winters notwithstanding) It's keeping them alive in the summer that's the problem. They tend to die suddenly of root rot. This even happens inSeattle!

    Dave's garden has good wind protection. So that would help. Also, as is always the case with borderline BLEs, prevent winter morning sunlight from contacting the foliage.

    PS - know you were addressing Dave, but I have tried 3 of them over the years. They die after a few years. Next one, I might try on a mound of pure builder's sand. I want to get the new hybrid from NZ between D. bholua and D. odora. Should have hybrid vigor.

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    6 years ago

    Heruga: Good drainage is the key. They absolutely hate clay that stays wet for too long - at least in an East Coast 7a. Mine is growing with some dappled sun, next to a retaining wall, excellent drainage, and often gets quite dry over the summer. It also gets some protection from north and west winds. BTW, I'm on my second plant. First one died. This one is in a different spot and seems to be thriving. So you may have to try a few spots.

    I may go out and cover it with a large pot tomorrow though. Just in case.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
  • sam_md
    6 years ago


    Warm & Springlike here today. That sweet & spicy smell can only mean one thing, Hamamelis mollis.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked sam_md
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    yeah mine are just starting to bloom, as is my Prunus mume 'Peggy Clarke'. Shows that in spite of the cold first half of January, we have done a lot of catching up. In the polar vortex winter, my plum didn't start until some preposterously late time, almost April 1 IIRC. Going to Newark, DE, in a few days to buy a battery for my Kubota, and will see if the Camellias at Udel are starting.

    Speaking of animal damage, 'Dream Angel' was almost eaten up by lop-eared rats...but I got a fence around it in time. Should be ok. They usually don't attack camellias and I think there's a very specific reason they are going after that one.

    "I'm worried about whether it will be hardy enough to have foliar survival of a really cold, polar vortex type winter around here." Came close to finding out LOL. It had only mild damage from the January cold spell, which is encouraging. Got to about 0F here.

  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    Daphne perfume princes started opening flowers in late december and ongoing till now late february in spite of frost and snow - slight lily of the valley fragrance. Growing in mostly coco coir and planted with rootgrow fungi. Also watered with Microveda Farming activated bacteria to promote soil and plant health. This in South East Bulgaria on the Balkans in what would be a USDA cold hardiness zone 7b.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    Daphne Perfume passion in full flower taken just now. As mentioned above, a slight lily of the valley fragrance.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • User
    6 years ago


    Chimonanthus Luteus in December about to open the flower buds.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Chimonanthus in full flower just now. Nice hiacynth mixed with spices fragrance.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • User
    6 years ago


    Hamamelis Aurora in full flower now. Very nice freesia fragrance in the air.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • User
    6 years ago


    Hamamelis Rochester in flower in early December. A very nice sweet green tea fragrance.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked User
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Nice pictures - just so you know, you can put up to 10 pictures in a single post.

  • sam_md
    6 years ago

    Winter Jasmine @ Tidal Basin, Wash DC


    Below is Chinese Paper Bush, in this case flowers slightly fragrant.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked sam_md
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    As usual I am a least a couple weeks behind - though less this year than most years because we've had such a crazy roller coaster of temps.

  • sam_md
    6 years ago


    C. japonica 'Korean Fire' blooming today @ Scott Arboretum.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked sam_md
  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Late February blooms.

    Gov. Mouton


    Spring's Promise

    Helleborus

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    My 'Korean Fire' is just starting to open, assuming weather forecast pans out it should look like that just in time for the cold spell we are supposed to get next weekend.

  • Embothrium
    6 years ago

    That sweet & spicy smell can only mean one thing, Hamamelis mollis.

    Looks like H. x intermedia to me.

    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked Embothrium
  • bsmith0023 (z8b coastal SC)
    6 years ago
    My favorite winter/spring bloomer
    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked bsmith0023 (z8b coastal SC)
  • sam_md
    4 years ago

    Evergreen in full bloom today in Wash DC. Can you name it? Tell us something about it.



    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked sam_md
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Easy! Sycopsis!

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Something about it? It would have been better if it had been pruned to avoid that split trunk LOL. Although it's less likely to cause a problem than with some other plants, probably, I imagine this family being very strong wooded. (hence the common name of its cousin Parrotia)

    I will be planting its 'second cousin' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodoleia in the garden this spring. Like a somewhat showier version of the above. I wanted it to size up to being 3/8" caliper. However I will ground layer a branch cuz even tho I have the supposed hardiest one, it may not be hardy enough.

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    4 years ago

    Claiming my bonus points two years late. Lonicera fragrantissima. Mine's just going over for this year. Starting to leaf out now.

    Just spotted tiny buds on hardy fuchsia Mrs W P Wood.


    davidrt28 (zone 7) thanked floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    HAHA floral! They're in the mail even though you are slightly off: it's Lonicera X purpusii.

    Sam btw there is a striking planting of winter jasmine at National Airport, in bloom on the last day of January as I returned from a business trip. In a few years it will probably be removed when some moron-in-charge realizes they are "not native".



  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    4 years ago

    Damn, should have checked. Maybe half points?

  • sam_md
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    So we're calling the above Chinese Fighazel or S. sinensis. Interesting how dense it grows, I don't see this one in the wholesale trade. I'll take this over Ligustrum any day.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    "I don't see this one in the trade. " between Woodlanders, Camellia Forest, and sundry PNW retailers like Forestfarm I would say it has been broadly available for the last 20 years, one just had to know where to look.

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I have a Sycopsis sinensis as well. It seems to be quite hardy. I think I got it from Forest Farm, years ago.

    Here's my Daphne odora this spring. It seems to LOVE this spot. Fragrance is amazing and intense.







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