I'd try to edit this and clean it up, but apparently doesn't give me the option if I start it! AGGH.

Oh

My

Wow

What a big mix-up--I don't seem to be able to delete that post. Somehow it duplicated when it populated here. It's really only half that long! I'm anxious to see how the germination goes on many of these. It's also not as long as it looks, as several will be just a couple or so plants for container specimens.

Agastache Astello Indigo hybrid

Alyssum Royal Carpet

Amaranth Red Spike

Asclepias Tuberosa

Asparagus fern Sprengen

Baby's Breath Gypsophila elegans, red

Balloon Platycodon Hakone Double Blue

Basil Corsican

Bee balm Monarda Panorama Mix

Begonia Grandis, Hardy

Begonia Santa Cruz Sunset

Black eyed susan vine

Blue pimpernel

Calendula Pink Surprise

White Cape Daisy

Celosia Amish Cockscomb

China Aster Spider Chrysanthemum mix

Coleus Giant Exhibition Rustic

Coleus Kong Rose

Coleus Velvet red

Commelina Sleeping Beauty

Cosmos Double click

Cosmos Picotee

Dahlia Double Extreme

Datura Ballerina Yellow

Datura Blackcurrent Swirl

Firecracker Vine (30) Firecracker vine

Forget-me-not Victoria Indigo blue

Four o'clock Limelight

Blue Glow Globe thistle

Heliopsis Burning Hearts

Heliotrope Peruvianum/Marine

Hibiscus IDK

Hollyhock Black

Hyacinth Beans Purple

Hyssop Officinalis Blue Hyssop

Hyssop (agastache foeniculum) Anise

Joe Pye weed Eupatorium

Lady's Mantle Thriller Lady's Mantle

Laura Bush petunias

Lavender Munstead

Lobelia Crystal Palace

Marigold Oklahoma White

Marigold Vanilla improved, Hybrid

Moneywort Creeping Jenny

Nicotiana Alata Grandiflora

Oregano

Phlox Drummundi Promise Lilac blue

Poppies, red peony Papaver

Ruellia Mex. Petunia

Saponaria Soapwort

Scabiosa Fama Deep Blue

Stokesia Blue Star

Thyme German

Thyme Summer

Tithonia Torch

Tradescantia Shimmer mixed

Verbena Bonariensis

Verbena Mixed

Wild ginger Asarum canadense

I'm impressed. I keep changing my mind.

Oh just grow them all, Rebecca--how do you think I ended up with such a mess!? And we'll see what shakes out, I really hope the lady's mantles and Joe Pyes make it.

Where did you get your Laura Bush seeds?

I got mine at DianeSeeds. Dawn told me to get them from WildSeed, I think (Dawn?), but they were out. Diane's was the ONLY place I found them, and I wasn't going to miss out on them yet another year! :) However, I see that now Wildseed DOES have more

Looks like Botanical Interests have them too. Thanks! Like I need another seed catalog...or more seeds...

Yes, I just got some more from Wildseeds just now. I'm glad you brought it up. Dianeseeds sent a much smaller packet, and hey, I think I needed more than they sent. :)

Nancy, Okay, you need serious professional help. No one here can help you because we all are amateurs, but I think maybe you're growing going to be growing too many seedlings this year. Maybe. lol.

It is easy to grow too many when the seeds are small and you're starving for flowers. Then, actual Spring arrives and you have to find a place to put them all, and that's where the trouble and stress develop. We'll pray for you that you don't lose your sanity over all this.

So, when you figure out where in the world you are going to plant all these flowers, come back and let us know!

After you wrote your original post and hit the Sumit button, if you had left the forum and come back into the forum again, it should have let you hit the Edit button and edit your own post. Sometimes it seems like it won't show you the Edit button until you leave and come back, but maybe I'm dreaming that up. I'm running on a severe sleep deficit here since the pagers began going off in the early morning hours, but I know I've edited my own posts before---even just 1 or 2 minutes after submitting them.

I can get Lady's Mantle to sprout and grow, but it doesn't like something here---either our soil that is more slow to drain, even when well-amended, or our constant heat and sunlight, so it never lasts long.

I always have and always will buy Laura Bush petunia seeds only from Wildseed---they brought the seed to the market in the first place and were the only source for so long and I want to reward them with my business for seeing the value in a petunia that thrives in our ridiculous heat long, long before any other seed companies did. I remember when you only could get the original violet-colored one, and then they kept working with it and came up with the white and pink ones, which they then sold in a formula blend that is not currently offered. You might get solid pink, splotched pink, partially striped pink, etc. from the formula blend. I did get the white and pink ones occasionally when the violet ones reseeded themselves (and I suspect Wildseed did as well), but they just kept working with them until they could make the white and pink blend available to the public via seed rather than us having to let the violet ones reseed and then hope for the best. Now they only offer the original violet LB and the pink LB most years.

When they are out of seeds, if you'll just be patient, they'll have more again soon. Since they grow their own seeds there on the farm in Texas, you will not necessarily be able to buy their seeds year-round, but once they've done the harvesting, cleaning and packing (and germination testing), then they'll be available again---at least until they sell out for the year. That's one of the things about supporting local or regional seed companies who grow their own seeds---versus folks who buy seed wholesale from someone else. (It wouldn't surprise me if some of the other companies now selling LB petunias are buying the seeds wholesale in bulk from Wildseed.)

You really only have to sow the seeds one year, unless you want to add more to a new area. Mine reseed abundantly all over the place every year, so they can be invasive and I don't care. It is easy enough to yank out the excess volunteers, or to dig them and move them to a new area.

Dawn

Botanical Interests website shows the formula blend available. Since I can probably get that here and not pay shipping, I may have to do that. I'm a 'riot of color' kind of gardener, which probably translates to 'sloppy' elsewhere, lol.

I knew you were very loyal to them, Dawn--which is why I just ordered from them when I saw they had them back. :) Last year I waited too late and missed out. And then showed up to the SF too late and didn't get any of YOURS!

My concern with lady's mantles were that it would be too hot here. And my plan was that I could keep them going in the shadier parts of the back yard, dappled before 10 and then heavily dappled shade the rest of the day--but with plenty of mulch. Well give it a try. My friend in Utah grew it in a dry arid Utah in zone 5, and it grew well for me, in the shade, in Mpls zone 3/4. It was a true perennial in Mpls. No self-seeding stuff. Well, I'll give it a try. It makes such a lovely shade plant, with or without its springish flowers.

Yes, I was TRYING to tell you I needed professional help by posting that bit from luvabasil about slowpoke's counseling her for her manic depressive fit about the coons and gophers. Cracked GDW up. Well there's nothing to be done for it now. Maybe I'll just have to bring any seeds I actually raise to the SF. Otherwise, I'll just have to get back to you on that. . . . :) And partly, I just wanted to see how easy or difficult they are to grow via various means--WSing, Grow cart, direct. . . (so like in case I ever might want to grow them.) Made perfect sense to me at the time.

:)

Next weekend it looks like we will be up in the 50s, so I think that's a good time for me to start my early WS seeds, especially stuff that needs stratification or spring bloomers. Help me out here. Morning glories and moonflowers, since they have that hard seed coat? Pansies, maybe? Snapdragons? Bluebonnets? Lavendar? Foxglove? My heat lovers I'll wait until February to WS, as that worked well last year. Those will be Cape Daises, tithonia, cosmos, bachelor buttons, iceplant, gaillardia, blanketflower, gazania, marigolds, calendula, rudbeckia, coneflower, celosia, zinnia, and painted daisies. Unless one of you tells me any of these should be started earlier. I guess I'll determine what I'm growing this spring by what makes it in the WS containers!

No help from THIS rookie. I planted all that needed to be stratified/perennials this first go-round, but just goin' off what I had read.

I could send you what I planted, if it would help you organize your own stuff. . . but a few of my decisions were capricious or flimsily-based. And I'm still undecided about some of the second-round ones, and will likely divide some between WSing, the grow cart and/or direct sow, to see how they do best.

You could help me sort out what needs stratification...

Check my message on FB. .

Rebecca, I love the formula blend---you can get all sorts of pink/white color variations so it is always full of surprises. I do love BI seeds too. They, along with Renee's Garden Seeds, have my favorite seed packets of all time. One of these years I am going to decorate a Christmas tree with nothing but seed packets from Renee's and from Botanical Interests. Central Market has a BI seed rack at the front of the store, conveniently placed near the check-out area, year-round and I'm always and forever standing there and looking at the seeds on it, even when I do not need anything.

I miss Larry (Slowpoke), his marvelous sense of humor and his gardening knowledge, which is wide and deep. He still pops in here occasionally, but not as often as he used to. He has a lot of family in poor health and he looks after all of them. He's such a good good guy. Luvabasil hasn't been here in a while. I'm not sure where she disappeared to, but I miss her as well. She had such enthusiasm for gardening!

I know you need help. Heck, we all need help. If there were a Gardener's Anonymous group for addicts, we'd all be candidates to join, except, as Jay often points out to us, our gardening addiction is only a problem is WE think we have a problem, and clearly none of us do. It isn't a problem to be this obsessed with planting and growing stuff, right?

Rebecca, Morning glories and moonflowers will sprout quickly and easily if you just knick the hard seedcoat a little (not too deeply) with a paring knife and then soak the seeds in water for 24 hours. They grow incredibly quickly once they sprout, so there's no reason to nick the seed coat and soak them until you're past your average last frost date because they grow too quickly and too rampantly to start indoors in cups. I grow pansies and snapdragons from seed with no special treatment---just sow in the soil-less mix in flats and they'll sprout just fine. Bluebonnets do fine with just normal autumn planting that exposes them to alternating rounds of warmer and cooler, and drier and wetter, weather. They sprout when they're ready---some will sprout in November, some in December, and others not until March or April. I suspect it relates more to soil temperature than anything else. Bluebonnets are unique in that they are somehow pre-programmed, by Mother Nature, to not all germinate at once. So, if you sow seeds now, a certain percentage will sprout the first year, and then more the second year and the rest probably the third year. This is a survival mechanism since the are wildflowers that generally have to survive on whatever rainfall Mother Nature gives them. By sprouting over several years' time, they increase the odds that at least some of them will sprout and grow in a year with favorable weather and will, thus, survive long enough to make seed to ensure their species survives. Lavender is slow to sprout and very slow to grow and exhausts my patience, so I don't bother sowing it from seed. Anything that is too finicky or too slow or just persnickety in general got crossed off my seed-starting list eons ago and lavender is one of those. When I grew lavender from seed, I basically sowed the seed and forgot about it, while keeping the soil-less mix lightly moist (not too wet or the seeds will rot over the long germination time). I think the ones you listed for winter sowing in Feb will be fine.

Think of stratification as our attempts to replicate what these seeds need in nature. In most cases, stratification is important for perennials and some biennials, but not so important for annuals. I hope that helps.

Dawn

Dawn, after you all were talking about lavender before and how slow it was, I'd crossed it off my list, too--but since I HAD a packet here, thought I'd throw it in the mix. I can't very well just throw a seed packet away, right? :)

I HAVE seen Larry a few times here, but of course, since I'm new, hadn't gotten to know him when he was very active in the forum. Yes, I loved the posts I read from him from then.

Dawn, this sounds crazy, but the only way I've gotten morning glories and moonflowers to sprout is to WS them. Not even nicking and soaking worked. The seeds just didn't sprout in my soil. Same with sunflowers. I know that's not the way it's supposed to be, but my garden should be named It's Not the Way it's Supposed to Be.

Oh, that was the question I forgot. Columbine. Have had trouble sprouting it.

Columbines are another that need to be stratified. I've never once ever tried to grow them, but a healthy good one is beautiful. When I was five, my GM and GP had sweet peas and columbines and several other things in their little flower bed. I guess because THEY didn't especially love the columbines, I never did, either. Poor columbines. I felt bad about that. They're beautiful if cared about and in half-way fertile well-tended soil, but the bloom time is short--and they're not that attractive for the rest of the summer.

Our neighbors rave about our endless summer hydrangeas, and we do, too, to each other, and this year, they did indeed bloom from May 1-5 through the end of October. I cannot believe it myself, since almost all of OK says, "Hydrangeas don't do well, here. I'd say the only problem for me is to get those soaker hoses lined up around them, as I have had some bacterial problems due to overhead watering/rain. (I was diligent about keeping the bacteria-infected leaves cut off--and it only took 5 minutes a week), but the answer for them seems to have been the shade, plus my consistent occasional fortification with leaf mulch and a bit of peat or compost. In fact, I'm going to spend some bucks to buy 5 more Annabelle hydrangeas for the backyard--the only concession I will make this year to "$$ on shrubs." Hydrangeas are one thing a lot of folks have trouble with in OK. And ours have the same heat to put up with. But they are in full sun for about 2 hours in the morning, then in heavily dappled shade the rest of the day. Since I've been fighting the mostly shady yard problem for 30 years, first in Mn and now here, I'm tuned in to that. I became an hosta lover up north and had 18 different varieties that were my babies. But down here, not a chance. They're like filet mignon or creme brulee to deer. And so are daylilies. I think daylilies are undersung heroes, especially with the varieties that are being developed currently. They're are some spectacular ones, ones that are even tempting me in terms of picking my battles with the deer. If your Mom doesn't have deer, I'd encourage you to check into the daylily, hosta, and BEGONIA world out there! I could so easily be an absolute addict of begonias, daylilies OR hostas.

Smack in the middle of town, so no deer to worry about. We think hostas are just ok. They don't grab us. She's just tired of begonias and impatiens.

Yes Kim!!!!

Rebecca, I understand about plants that do their own thing despite what we think that ought to be doing. I think every gardener has at least one type of plant that behaves bizarrely in their garden.

I do think that morning glories and moonflowers just behave that way sometimes. I had trouble getting them to sprout in the soil here the first few years, though I have no idea why. Admittedly, it was awful red clay and we were in drought, so maybe the soil, even though I was amending it every year, just hadn't reached that right point yet. Now, and you just have to laugh, they reseed everywhere with wild abandon and have become a royal PITA because I want a few dozen morning glory plants to grow along the south and east garden fence of the front garden and enough sprout to cover every square inch of the garden in morning glories. They sprout irregularly too, so I am yanking out MG volunteers literally every single week of the garden season. I've never grown them in the back garden for fear they also would run amok back there, but this year some Grandpa Ott's popped up back there, perhaps planted by the birds, so now I am sure I'll be yanking out millions of them back there too. It baffles me that they were so hard to get started in the early years and now you cannot stop volunteers from sprouting and growing to save your life. And, in that same way that tells you plants have their own minds, we have had Milky Way and/or Blue Star morning glories pop up in a crack in the concrete near the garage for over a decade. They get no irrigation, no food, no care, no compost, no mulch and no relief from the hot summer sun beating down on them and the concrete---and they come back every year and grow like mad. I guarantee you if I had built a bed for them back there and tried to grow them on purpose, there probably wouldn't be a single one there. These are plants that know their own mind.

Nancy, Hydrangeas do not do well at my end of the state---we are just too hot and too dry for much of the summer most years, but your soil and weather up there is very different from mine. There's a lot of plants that grow really well in eastern OK that don't grow well in other parts of the state, and I think hydrangeas are one of them. It isn't really the 95 degree days or 100 degree days that get them down here, but in those years where we have a lot of days over 105 in combination with little to no rainfall, you can just see the life leaving the hydrangeas even if you're doing your best to keep them well-watered. I started out with a lot of hostas our first year here, and the deer taught me they were deer chow, so we have none now. Daylilies do great here as long as they are within the fenced garden where the deer cannot reach them. Crinum lilies are an unstoppable force of nature down here and they don't care how hot and dry it gets. They bloom in the worst of the heat. Will they eventually wilt and die back to the ground if we are hot and dry for months on end? They will, but since their root clumps are the approximate size of a Smart Car, they surely do not die, and I've never had deer eat them either. The crinums will just sit there dormant and wait for better weather so they can green up again and regrow. I have had crinums in the same spot for over a decade and need to dig them up and divide them but don't even know if it is possible at this point---it might require the use of a backhoe or some other form of earth-moving equipment.

Speaking of hungry deer and the lengths they'll go to in order to eat....a friend of ours a couple of miles north of us had to release two deer from the hog trap (these hog traps are not big enough for the deer, but try telling the deer that) the other day. I guess the bait in the hog trap was too attractive to the hungry deer, they crawled in and couldn't get out. That happened a lot in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, but hasn't happened since. I guess the fact it is happening again shows how much the autumn/winter drought has hurt their winter food supply.

Kim, lol at the cartoon.

Dawn

Rebecca, I got the Botanical Interests Laura Bush petunias seeds from Stringers.

I can't grow lavender and columbine well from seeds too! My lavender seedlings just slowly wilted one by one. I still have some of the seeds in my fridge that I'll probably try again this year.

I do have a few columbine plants that are still surviving in my front yard. Hopefully they'll bloom next year. I bought the seeds last year because I saw the columbine blooms in Stringers. I also spotted quite a few columbine plants while I was hiking in Redbud Valley Nature Preserve in Nov.

Kim, love the comic! Haha

Since H/J asked, here is my herb list *=new to me

1=WS, 2=WS&INDOORS, 3=WS IF POS, 4=WS, ID, DIRECT, 5 INDOORS, 6=DIRECT, 7=ID & DIR, 8=SUCCESSION P=ALREADY PLANTED ?=SHOULD I BUY?

1 Agastache rugosa Korean mint*

2 Alchemilla mollis Lady's Mantle*

2 Arnica chamissonis Arnica*

2 Astragalus Astragalus*

7 Basil Cinnamon

7 Basil Dark Opal

7 Basil Genovese

7 Basil Italian large leaf

7 Basil Lemon

7 Basil Lime

7 Basil Purple Petra

7 Basil Thai

7 Basil, Holy Tulsi

P Bee Balm Balmy Rose

P Borage Borage

2 Calendula Calendula, Resina

7 Catmint Catmint

P Catnip Catnip

1 Ceanothus integerrimus Red Root*

2 Chamomile German Chamomile

5 Chervil Chervil

4 Chives Chives

1 Chlorogalum pomeridianum Amole, soap plant*

8 Cilantro/Coriander Bac Lieu*

8 Cilantro/Coriander Slow Bolt Cilantro

5 Codonopsis pilosula Dang-Shen*

1 Coix lacryma-jobi Job's Tears*

P Comfrey Comfrey

7 Cumin Cumin*

7 Dill Ella dill

7 Dill Mammoth

5 Fenugreek Fenugreek

2 Feverfew Feverfew

4 Greenthread Greenthread (didn't grow last year)

2 grindelia, gumplant grindelia, gumplant

5 Gynostemma pentaphyllum Immortality Vine*

1 Hyssop Hyssop*

4 Isatis indigotica Woad, Isatis*

5 Kalmegh Kalmegh*

P Lavender Unknown

5 Lemon Balm Lemon Balm

5 Lemon Grass Lemon Grass

5 Majoram, Sweet Majoram, Sweet

1 mullein mullein*

5 Nepitella Calamint

? nigella sativa Black Seed

2 Oregano Greek

P Oregano Italian

5 Oregano wild zaatar

5 Papalo Papalo

6 Parsley Evergreen Parsley

6 Parsley Italian Parsley

2 Peppermint Peppermint*

5 Savory Summer

2 Savory Winter

5 Schizandra chinensis Magnolia vine*

2 Scullcap Mad dog Scullcap

5 Sculpit Sculpit

5 Self Heal Self Heal*

2 Soapwort Soapwort

1 Spilanthes tooth ache plant

1 St Johns Wort St Johns Wort*

2 Thyme Thyme

1 Valarian Valeriana officinalis*

2 Wormwood Wormwood

2 Yarrow White Yarrow

? Boneset Boneset

? Chamomile Roman

P Chives garlic

? Curcuma domestica Turmeric

? Gaultheria procumbens wintergreen

? Ginger Edible ginger

? Pennyroyal Pennyroyal

P plantain plantain

? Pycnanthemum muticum SHORT-TOOTHED MOUNTAIN MINT

I will buy plants at Cherry Street from Duck Creek for: Other thymes, Rosemary, maybe sage, tarragon and whatever else he has that I can't live without. I will grow herbs in pots if I don't have room. The flowers is where I've gone overboard!

Edit: And I went to great lengths to make columns which GW just eliminated all my spaces.