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Do I need a fireplace?

13 years ago
We are thinking of taking down the fireplace in our home. We've never used it since we moved in this house 17 years ago. Moreover, it is in Southern California, a fireplace is really no use. But I was told a home without a fireplace will have a lower value when you sell it.

Comments (22)

  • 13 years ago
    As a realtor and a Californian (where it is OFTEN against the law to use a fireplace)....I would take it out of the home especially if you want the space for a specific purpose such as an entertainment center anchor to a room. This is expensive! Alternatively, a gas log fireplace is functional.....even if there is a power failure for many days (after an intense storm), you can still use the heat from that fireplace.....of course how cold does it ever get in SoCal?
  • 13 years ago
    As a fellow Californian - I would convert it to gas. At least that's our plan. As Anne mentioned above, No Burn Days have made our wood FP unusable on many days.

    We're in the bay area and probably use our FP a bit more than you use yours. I will say though that we use it for ambiance as much as for heat.

    I think it would be like taking out a bathroom that never gets used. The additional bathroom still adds value to the house.
  • 13 years ago
    I notice that my under 40 clients do not have any emotional attachment to fireplaces, and in fact they dislike them. Older homes in the Bay Area often require a approx. $10K earthquake retrofit, and these are the homes they are buying.
    I think the desire for a fireplace is from our northern European roots, and perhaps our frontier roots. Baby boomers have more emotional attachment to fireplaces in my experience. Therefore, if we are evaluating if this will "hurt" the value of the home at re-sale, I would say it probably will not.
  • 13 years ago
    There is also the "dual focal point" problem when a fireplace is in the same room with a large TV.
  • 13 years ago
    I fit the mold above Anne ;-) That said, I'm originally from a part of CA where we often DID use the FP for heat and power loss for a week wasn't unusual.

    When we shopped for a house, having a FP wasn't on the must have list. Ending up with one though has been wonderful and I now know I'll always have a FP in my home. Again, I realize that's just me.
  • 13 years ago
    Onthefence.....my confession: I adore my fireplaces. I used to have hot chocolate and marshmallow ready for my young children....to drink in front of the fireplace...on their own little table and chairs....after school on a cold and rainy or windy day. For me nothing evokes the warmth of a home like.....real fire.
  • PRO
    13 years ago
    I'm a contractor, a Canadian (so I've built half a dozen houses with wood burning systems) and I live in Palm Springs CA. My wife and I bought a 40 year old house here that has a very traditional fireplace. Cement block faced with brick.

    We burn gas not wood, that's a pretty quick decision. It definitely throws a little heat on the few nights of the year when it's ok to use it. We're in the process of re-inventing the appearance which, I'm certain will make our living room more attractive. I'd never think of getting rid of it. In our neighborhood, it certainly increases value by at least what it would cost to build. Back in the '70's, (I built my first house in 1978) such a fireplace would cost a few thousand in materials, and that again to build it. Today that number would be times 3 or more. ( $12,000 to $16000)

    But something that I would think about is the thermal mass or "thermal inertia" as some architectural types call it. There is a demonstration of energy efficient home designs done by schools from around the country, taking place in Irvine about now. At least one design incorporates "thermal inertia". Basically, if you lived in the middle of the Sonoran desert, would you rather be in a tent or a stone castle? One has thermal mass, the other doesn't. Of course, to take advantage of your fireplaces thermal mass, the house insulation system should wrap around it.

    Scandanavian countries have known all about this for centuries. Their 'tile' wood stoves are basically big chunks of stone and masonry with an integral fireplace that's all inside the house. The thing continues to heat (or cool, in summer) for hours, even days, after the fire goes out. They can also run the fire at full blast always. It burns much more efficiently when there is no air restriction. (more heat, less wood) The chimneys are cleaner, there is far less CO2 released and most of the heat is absorbed by the thermal mass.
  • 13 years ago
    Anne, I'll bet your kids still think about those afternoons with cocoa on stormy days! What you said about buyers of a certain age being drawn to FPs is interesting. The idea of a desire for a FP being generational had never occurred to me!

    Robert - great and VERY informative post. Thank you! We're lucky in that our FP is built a bit like you describe. It's in the center of the house with the firebox facing the living room and a brick wall with a small BBQ on the kitchen side. On the days that we do have a fire, the heat that radiates from all 4 sides is wonderful. I hadn't really thought about it but realized after your post that the brick probably helps cool the area during the summer.
  • PRO
    13 years ago
    And now that I'm thinking, in our house I've been removing the old floor coverings, such as carpet, pergo, and some tile. The house is cooler, not a lot, but enough to notice. Most houses here are built on concrete slabs and there usually isn't anything between the concrete and the sand under it, which is good, if you live in the desert, bad, if you live in Manitoba. In cold climates, concrete floors should be insulated from the ground so that the thermal mass acts in your favor, during the heating season. In hot climates, no insulation allow us to take advantage of the earths cooler temperatures. The carpet and especially the pergo, (laid on foam insulation blankets) were isolating us from the nice, cool, ground.

    I used to imagine a model to help understand passive heating and cooling systems. The model would be a glass bell jar like structure, but with a pet friendly door, and adequate ventilation for same. Inside would be a pile of rocks, or masonry products, maybe a small wading pool, and a few comfortable places for a dog or cat (cats especially) or even a reptile, to relax. Outside the seasons would change. I'm certain a year long observation of the animals behavior would help any designer decide on thermal mass size and placement in a structure. Sometimes the animals would leave, other times not. Adjustments needed.
  • 13 years ago
    Sadly, if you have a fireplace built since the mid eighties, CA required an insert. The insert destroys the radiant heat coming from the fireplace, and by extension the whole fp radiant /warm experience. As a fp connoisseur when skiing I seek out OLD giant fireplaces such as the one at the Awhanee in Yosemite, in order to have the full "intense radiant heat" and thermal mass experience!
    So, perhaps the younger generation (under 40) has experience with only the insert type fireplaces and they don't know how awesome an older fireplace experience can be.
  • 13 years ago
    Robert, isn't your desert chilly at night? I have seen a "full house fan"....OMG I was so VERY impressed. You open windows at night, turn on the (gigantic) fan, and it pulls all the hot air out of the house and into the attic in 15-20 minutes. Much less energy than AC. Your thoughts?
  • 13 years ago
    As a Realtor, my younger California clientele is VERY interested in this type of home....right home....wrong location....it would be a hit in NorCAL or SF bay area
  • 13 years ago
    @Robert Pollock At least whomever bought your home probably deserves it. Think of your clientele as an elite of a different sort. Children's bedrooms downstairs are a problem though from a safety point of view. The house sounds wonderful, truly wonderful. But look at houzzers too: the idea that granite should be wasted on a kitchen counter disturbs me greatly, but I don't get any kudos for saying that around here.
  • 13 years ago
    Robert, the "reverse floor plan" with bedrooms on the lower darker, cooler, floor, especially on a hillside...well....I do not understand the resistance to this but it is definitely there! Here I am in Northern CA, and I have to tell Architects sometimes that people just HATE going downstairs to their bedrooms. Belmont and San Carlos CA are full of these type of homes, but always a tough sell......You are "right" about why you want to do this....but people BUY homes EMOTIONALLY, and later on try to JUSTIFY LOGICALLY....
  • 13 years ago
    If it is just one of those factory built fireplaces, I would get rid of it. I think most of those end up looking like cheap eyesores (that would be a deterrent for me as a buyer).

    However, if it is a site built masonry fireplace, I would keep it.
  • PRO
    13 years ago
    Ramona; Your concern about the kids, or anyone "downstairs" is unfounded for two reasons; Code requires emergency exits, usually about 2'wide x 3' high (6 sq. ft.) in all rooms where getting out might be trouble, like basements, but in the house described above, the foundation was a slab on grade to the 'downstairs' was actually grade level, and the living area was up, on the second floor. All 17 windows were wood framed opening casements because they look good, seal very well and operate.
  • 13 years ago
    Never remove a firepl. Why would you. I live in so cal all mylife. There is a lot of times to use it,in the winter. It makes a room very cozy, on rainy days and will give a room a glow at night. I suggest you light your firepl. Add big logs on a grate. Have a black only screen. Add basket fill with wood place on hearth. Do you have a mental? If not add one. Maybe it's the look of your firepl you don't like? Can we see it. If you have mantel add tall candle sticks to one end a mirror over it. Hung low. Or a nice art piece. Big. Don't do small items on your walls. If used Brick might want to update by white washing it. Google to see how too.
  • 13 years ago
    Anne I cannot believe as a a Realtor you would suggest taking out a firepl. which would be a huge job. Unless it's a free standing type.
  • 13 years ago
    Yes adding gas log would solve a problem. Parts of Cal like LA. Has no fire wood days, but not that often.
  • PRO
    13 years ago
    last modified: 13 years ago
    I agree with Travis. As a Realtor in California for 30 years, a fireplace adds value to a home here. It doesn't mean you shouldn't remove it, but you should know that it may impact resale. Many buyers won't purchase a home without one and a "real" wood burning FP that's been grandfathered is a huge asset. In many parts of California you can't get a permit to build one any longer.
  • 13 years ago
    Transinventors.....I will take a photo of I one that shoukd be removed and you will understand. In this area small kitchens in the 60's havw a "fireplace bbq" IN THE KITCHEN. They impede all expansion of counters. Veeerrryyyy expensive. Yes it is the Silicon Valley.....
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