So contractor says the floor is uneven since its an old house. I replied, what was the plywood for then?? He replied it may have made the situation worse. But then he said it helped. It's very frustrating when you don't know what is the right thing they should be doing, and you know they keep overcharging everything and then you end up with tiles that look like this.

It is lippage. Very common but avoidable problem with LFT. There are leveling systems used to prevent such lippage but in many cases some lippage, under a dime's width, is acceptable yours looks greater than that. There is a complex formula that takes grout width and pattern offset into account for what is within industry standards.

There is radiant heating warmboard under this that they installed as well. Am I within my rights to tell them they need to take all this tile off, about 1,200 sq ft and redo it ? Will that damage warmboard?

It could also be the tiles which are not flat. But they should not have kept going.

the contractor charged you 4K for plywood to repair the floor?? then complains the floor wasn't level? (actually, Flat is a better word. you want flat for your floor)

please tell me he didn't apply that tile directly to the plywood.

any pics of the install? what is the manufacturers recommended grout lines? it should tell you on the box or on the site where you got them. go to install specs and it should say. looks like he did 1/16"?

need more info. but I would not pay him for this install. who did the tile work? tile people are supposed to level out your flooring before they lay the tile. if not, then they should use extra thinset on the shallower spots. these tiles are prone to bowing and lippage as it is,,,so any tile setter worth his salt would know before hand that your floors needed to be as close to flat as possible. even if it meant pouring a self leveling product.

With a good tile setter, you should be able to slide a quarter all across the floor without it getting hung up.

It's a bad job.

There is no reason the floor tiles should look like this. Yes it is common for a few to be off but you have almost every other one with something weird happening.

The tile installer needs to own up to not prepping and installing the job correctly.

I had a similar issue with lippage on a herringbone pattern with thin grout, problematic for LFT, it was made better, not perfect without damage to my radiant heat pad. Good luck.

If you do a total redo thicker grout lines will help often avoid the issue without a lippage system needed.

If I told you how much they have charged us for everything... :( They are renovating the entire house and there are sooo many things we would have done differently. I'm just tired of being taken for an idiot.

Beth, I found this picture I took at one point. Thoughts?

I think the plywood was put under the radiant heating

ok,,,thats fine. did they use mastic to set the tiles? ( did it come in a tub? as opposed to a bag of thinset mortar that needs to be mixed with water?)

man, i can already see the unevenness of the cement board. see where some of the corners dip down lower than it's neighbor? this all should have been remedied before they laid the tiles. You paid him big bucks to do this job. It's incumbent upon him to make sure the floors are level. he's making excuses for his poor work. I'd be in his face on that one. It would be different if he just came in and laid tile on an existing floor that he didn't touch, but he's the one that redid all of these floors! how can he blame you for floors out of level?? that's absurd.

Here is properly laid cement board. did he use thinset to set the backboard??

did he use proper cement board screws? compare this pic w/your pic. look at all these cement board screws. now look at yours. you want this backboard to be secure as possible. movement leads to cracked grout and cracked tiles. It almost looks like the screw heads on yours is not set deep enough.

the last thing that needs to be done is taping the joints. which we see he didn't do. you can actually tape the seams as you tile, but it doesn't look like he did this.

At least he left some gaps for expansion,,although they're a bit large.

I am surprised there was no leveling compound used over the Wonderboard and that the seams weren't taped. I am not sure that either of those things are necessary for a dry floor installation but both were done under my bathroom floors.

I just went over to the house. This is what they used.

2 problems. Someone tried for a random look pattern. Which left several situations where the required no more than 1/3 offset pattern was violated. That pattern created lippage. And the grout lines are too small to work with the type and standard warpage of the tile. The too small grout lines enhanced the lippage rather than helping to disguise it.

Who designed the tile pattern? Who specified the grout width?

My electric floor mat specs called for a floor leveler prior to mat and tile install.

thinset is fine. that's the only thing he got right. did you ask him if he used thinset underneath the cement board?

another ace in your pocket for you not to pay him and for you to hire an actual tile pro.

Nothing wrong with that thinset,it must be installer error.

I noticed the random pattern afterwards. Also, he didn’t use any spacers or anything that I provided from Porcelanosa so the joints are not uniform. He chose the random pattern

The house is supposed to be delivered at the end of this month. What can I do to make him fix this correctly?

point out all of the critical errors, including the substrate issue. don't sign off on anything and don't pay.

educate yourself on how this is to be done or else he will continue to tell you you're crazy and being too picky. If he doesn't know the proper layout for these tiles, or how to use spacers and use the correct ones for the job (1/16" is too small for these) then I sure as hell wouldn't let him redo it. I've already pointed out some of the substrate issues that clearly haven't been done correctly. You can bring that up to him as well as the incorrect tile placement and grout lines.

Hire your own tile setter who knows his shit. call him in asap and have him make a record of all the incorrect things (show him the picture) so you can then show it to your goofball.

get a full refund for this if it has to be ripped out and redone.

Constructive criticism

I'm sorry for your problem. You paid how much to get this done?? On top of that cost you had to pay an additional $4,000 for God only knows what.

You hired a professional. The pro's say you didn't hire the right professional. This board is full of people who hire a pro and then the pro isn't "good enough".

This is why my husband and I do everything ourselves. It seems like the trades are full of hacks and thieves. If you happen to come across a "real" pro he will have his choice of jobs and can charge whatever he wants, leaving the average home owner shit out of luck because no average joe can afford his prices and if you can afford him, by the time he has an opening on his schedule your out dated kitchen will be in again.

Or a water leak

"What can I do to make him fix this correctly?"

Sit on the money you owe him. Make him choose between the expense of a do-over vs. the cost of his lawyer and the damage to his reputation.

Joseph, how would I handle this if he’s hired by our contractor who is remodeling our entire house. Our remodeling loan specifies that he’s our contractor and the bank pays him after inspections.

House was supposed to be delivered in November and we’re almost in February. Which means we keep having to pay for rent elsewhere. We’re in NJ. Is there any way I can pressure them ? I feel like if I make them redo it they will take their sweet time and I’ll keep losing money :(

I guess I want to know what means I have to apply any sort of pressure

I see SNOW out the window...........

Why on earth does anyone want tile in a great room, in a cold climate with snow? You can put radiant heat under real deal hardwood. Oh..... yes all of the above equals bad tile job. You must talk to the bank. ASAP. Your loan contract will specify that they are paying. Call the BANK. The bank will sit on the money owed the contractor, you can only pray.

rainshivers:

A lot of this is posturing and bluffing. If you've already complained to him that you're paying rent, he knows you're anxious to get in. I like Jan's idea.

Jan, it was my husband’s hill to die on!

ill contact the bank. Thanks

I think that maybe this thin plank tile will fall out of favor because of the difficulty in laying this format and the problems with lippage and uneveness. Part of this is inherent in the tile itself which is why it has to be set so specifically.

Palimpsest, are you able to figur out if he used any particular pattern?

Those tiles need a tile setter who knows how to work with them and so many have no idea.Talk to the bank they are the ones releasing the money after inspections.

Rip it out, get hardwood, and don't repeat the mistake. Before you talk to the bank, ..............................get hubby on the same page.

I don't see a pattern, which is generally what you want with a wood floor done with shorts--you want a wood floor to look random. But with the tile you have to avoid a 50% overlap so generally you have a layout pattern of some sort.

Years ago there was a planked floor in a wood look that was layout out in a 1/3 overlap running bond (Like subway tile almost) in a completely rigid pattern throughout the room and it was very obvious and the homeowner was not happy. It's tricky and difficult to get it looking fairly random but not being so random you end up with the lippage and uneveness.

I haven't used this format particularly in a wood look because of issues like this, it's a difficult format to work with, I think. (And I suppose I like my tile to look like tile, but that's just personal preference).

That doesn’t make sense to me Jan. Put hardwood because he didn’t install our tile correctly? Not sure I agree.

It doesn't ( to me) make sense to have a "faux" wood tile, almost guaranteed to be a more difficult install than a real deal wood in almost any variety in a true four season cold winter climate. I'd not take a second chance with these guys.

You said...... "It was my husbands hill to die on" Was it your choice to die on the hill as well?

The only application where this fad makes any sense to me is in a tropical climate that demands a tile everywhere, all living spaces. Faux wood tile, unlike actual wood, will eventually be looked back on as a "remember those faux wood tiles.......?!" Bet me on it

If i needed tile in a true four season climate, I'd pick a forever ...............like slate. An actual TILE : ) pretending to be nothing other than what it is.

I'd add that the slightly rustic look you wanted in your tile, is out there in ABUNDANCE in pre finished hardwood flooring, even engineered. A far less arduous install btw

I see. I think it’s a matter of personal preference in that case. He absolutely wanted tile, I agreed only if it was wood tile. i had slate at our old apartment btw and loved it. But that’s nether here nor there, I still have tile that wasn’t set down correctly, regardless of if the look of it isn’t to everyone’s liking. :)

Regarding the pictures above, although I find them beautiful, I wouldn’t want hardwood in my kitchen. Which would bring us to needing tile anyway, and i really dislike square tiles.

The GC owns the job. If his sub messes up, it’s up to the GC to solve it. Buy a copy of the TCNA manual. It’s cheap. And it’s the tile setters bible. Let him argue with that if he balks at replacement. Or a certified inspector.

As long as you were not the one to specify the random pattern with skinny grout lines, you are good. If that was you, as it often is, then you own the job. You cannot act as the job designer and specify things without understanding the consequences of those specifications.

If you use LFT for the redo have the contractor insist the layer look into leveling systems designed to minimize lippage. My tiler used ATR. http://www.flooringsupplyshop.com/tools-109/atr-tile-leveling-system-596/atr-tile-leveling-system-300-pro-spindles-2176.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA4vbSBRBNEiwAMorER_NpJr_dkjPsuFdrK063L4cUi7OcMYz12lL3KxhptXpnuvwI-hPVCRoCkXkQAvD_BwE

Check out THIS thread and scroll to the bottom to Bill Vincen'ts thread for a different perspective on wood look tile. And see his bottom picture where a leveling system was used. It takes a skilled setter to install wood look and actually make it look similar to real wood.

Sophie, he took everything upon himself regarding pattern and grout lines. I actually provided this from Porcelanosa that he didn’t use.

Then hold the GC’s feet to the fire. Hire an impartial inspector if need be. But the threat of that and having him walk across that floor barefoot should be enough.

Those are 1/16 inch spacers so providing them would be an indication that you wanted to use small grout lines, maybe smaller than recommended. But in the 2nd picture you provided above, it appears that the tiles are butted together with little or no spacing ... ?

Jellytoast, he said he installed with little or no spacing to mimic real wood floors.

UPDATE: talked to contractor and tile guy. It got heated when he basically said I was being unrealistic to expect it to be flat. I said I showed the pics of the job to some pros as well as to my bank and he cooled down and said he’d tear out the tile in that section and redo to see if problem is fixed.

thank you everyone. Will update once it’s redone.

Homeowner hiring tips for tile:

The best thing anyone can do in the future is Insist on a contract with a detailed Tile Scope.

"All tile work installed must adhere to and meet Tile council N.America TCNA , ANSI, IRC specifications, and all MFG instructions."

and think hard about supplying the tile itself, some people think thats the way to go or a way to avoid a possible markup but it tangles you up in liabilty/blame. The idea here is to have maximum undebateable documented recourse when it flops like this poor OP is dealing with. You will scare many average GC's and tile hacks right out the door and thats what you want. @OP double triple question everything under the tile job as well as repair and everyone moving fwd. Do not settle. You have A GC issue in poor subbing decisions.

Excellent post Tundra Finish,we could use more like it.

Bill Vincent's pics from the post that I referred to above appear to be a random pattern with 1/16 inch grout spacing, and it looks pretty darn good. And pretty flat.

"Jellytoast, he said he installed with little or no spacing to mimic real wood floors."

What he produced in no way mimics a real wood floor. It would be one thing if he could pull it off, but he dropped the ball, as did your GC for not being aware of (or caring about) the type of work his sub is capable of (or not capable of).