I wouldn’t consider the M touch interface more problematic than the sensontronic. Both have control/power boards driving them and those electronics is what is problematic in almost any new appliance. If you have not try to look at both and see if you have a strong preference one way or the other with the interface. The main advantage of the M touch is all the factory programs are included. I also believe only the M touch wall oven offer a rotisserie option if that is important to you. I use the factory programs in my CSO and Wall oven - not so much with the speed oven. One thing you can do with the M touch that simplifies things is change the start up screen to default to the manual operating modes which removes one step probably for at least 90% of my baking/cooking needs. It also makes it more intuitive for guests to use the ovens. If I want a gourmet mode or a saved favorite or other - just tap the back button and you are at the main menu. Good Luck and enjoy your new appliances.

The M Touch has the steam option in it, correct? so you still need the CSO too? I guess if you want to cook for just a couple of people CSO is better that heating up a whole 30" wall oven?

it turns on the MW for, 1 minute is the minimum far as I can tell, I'd love to have it set to 30 seconds instead

You can in fact go into the settings and change the initial time that the button sets. We programmed ours for 40s, as that's the most frequently used setting in our household. It brings my kids' milk to the desired temperature.

The confusing bit is that any subsequent button press increases time by a full minute. So, I get cooking times of 0:40, 1:40, 2:40, ... Not a big deal, but certainly a little counter-intuitive.

The M Touch has the steam option in it, correct? so you still need the CSO too?

M Touch vs. Sensortronic vs. manual controls is all primarily about the user interface. Both M Touch and Sensortronic have touch panels. But for M Touch, the panel covers the entire display, whereas for Sensortronic it only covers areas on the side of the display. And for manual controls, you get old-school physical buttons/dials.

You can pick these control interfaces for any of Miele's appliances. So, you could have a dishwasher with Sensortronic, a SpeedOven with manual controls, and a CSO with M Touch. And yes, that means, if you want a steam oven, you have to actually buy a steam oven.

For any of the more complicated feature-full devices, I recommend M Touch. There are just too many options and it is hard to navigate with Sensortronic. And I think, if you only get manual controls, you actually don't get all the features, as there simply isn't a good way to access them.

We have Sensortronic for our dishwasher. It's a little tedious, but that's fine. We rarely change settings. So, having to do a bunch of awkward button presses once or twice a month is acceptable.

On the other hand, our CSO has M Touch and I am very happy about that. Sensortronic would be a major pain, as we constantly have to navigate through several settings.

Thanks for the clarification @M - Your kitchen can be a Miele Experience Center!!!

By the way thanks to you - I'm planning to get the Miele Speed oven over a 30" Miele Wall oven and then get the CSO which will go under the counter in the kitchen island and then two Miele Dimension dishwashers) - No microwave because I have the Speed oven that can be used as a microwave!

The dishwasher is like a push button thing - so does that mean it's Sensotronics?

The ovens - I have see what I said yes to!! - I think it's the Sensotronic - I should change that to M-Touch based on what you are saying.

Thanks for all your help in my decision making - on multiple threads that I have posted!

I find the sensortronic interface clunky. We’re going with the m Touch for the speed oven for the reasons touched on by others (complexity, etc.) and then the Direct Select (aka knobs) for our regular oven, as I don’t feel I need a program to use that.

The dishwasher is like a push button thing - so does that mean it's Sensotronics?

Is it an actual physical button, or is it a touch-sensitive "virtual" button on an entirely smooth surface next to the display? The former would be what I have previously called "manual controls". The latter would be Sensortronic. I suppose, for a dishwasher it really doesn't matter much either way. Functionality should be pretty much identical. So, it's mostly a question of what you think looks nicer. In my experience, it is very rare that I need to operate the controls on the dishwasher.

Yes, the rest of your appliance selection sounds wonderful. You'll be really happy with it. If my experience is any indication, you are likely to use your CSO more frequently than you'll use your SpeedOven. So, I'd make sure the CSO is the most easily accessible appliance. But that's just a micro-optimization. I think you'll love your new kitchen when it is done!

The plan/space for the CSO is under the island counter - so not very convenient?

Let me see if I can change the design some - but not sure I have space on the wall!

@Kristen I like your thinking the 30" wall oven doesn't need a program ro use - so maybe save some on getting the knobs! - I have to go back and see for the looks and see how it all fits together but like @M said it's micro-optimization!

The DirectSelect option for the regular oven is a pretty amazing deal. And helped make up for the cost of the M-Touch, plumbed steam oven :-).

Following as I go back and forth on the same issue with the big oven. One day I think it's not worth the extra money. The next day, I think maybe I do need 16 different bread programs.

In our household, I would prioritize ease of access in this order: 1. CSO (most commonly used), 2. large oven (simply, because it's otherwise too difficult to remove big and heavy items), 3. SpeedOven/microwave (only used rarely and primarily for small/light items).

But even if an oven wasn't perfectly located, that wouldn't stop me from using it. So, optimizing placement is firmly in the realm of diminishing returns, and I wouldn't spend too much thought on it. In particular, if relocating the CSO meant that it couldn't be plumbed, that wouldn't be worth it. I would absolutely prioritize the ability to install a plumbed CSO over its placement.

As for manual controls on the big oven, that's IMHO absolutely OK. I find I use it only if the CSO is already in use, I need the superior broiler, I cook something that splatters a lot, or I have something that is too big for the CSO (that hasn't happened yet). In all of these cases, I set one simple mode and make no further adjustments. Manual controls would be just fine for all of the above.

@M Will installing a CSO undercounter in the island be inconvenient to use?

It's about as inconvenient as using a range oven; plus, possibly the extra walk, if your island isn't right next to your work area.

Look at it this way, there is a reason, people put their microwave at the level of the countertops, and why they install wall ovens. They are easier to reach that way. But that doesn't mean that an oven that is installed below the countertop level is impossible to reach.

Personally, I'd have a preference for installing the CSO somewhere between countertop level and just below eye level, and I would put the microwave somewhere further away. But that's because I know that I use the microwave a lot less frequently, and when I use the microwave I interact with it a lot less than I might with the CSO. You might have different preferences. And you need to live with all of the different trade-offs that you inevitably have to make when designing a kitchen. So, we can't really decide that for you.

As always thanks for your input @M

Great comments. I'm getting Miele in 24 inch width -- oven and CSO, obsidian black. I was going with M touch CSO plumbed stacked above the oven, which has to be Sensotronic since there is no M touch in the 24 inch oven. I just found out that the CSO M touch plumbed only comes in the stainless steel edges. So, I could move the M touch CSO to my island where it would sit next to the induction cooktop. If I use the CSO and the cooktop primariy seems that would make sense. Of course, I'd have to make other adjustments. It's getting complicated. Given the more positive comments on the plumbed CSO and the M touch, I'm wondering if it worth trying to shift the CSO to the island under the counter. Or the other way to look at this would getting the the Sensotronic CSO (NP) and the oven be such a bad thing?

Get the MTouch. The CSO has so many options that you can set. You want a good menu system.

I'm not sure I would put the CSO under the countertop. It's much easier to reach when it's a little higher. But then, I'm also not convinced that a cooktop in an island is optimal ergonomics either.

If you want good feedback, post a floor plan. This forum can be brutally honest. But there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable kitchen designers here

Thanks M. Here is the kitchen floor plan. Miele 24-in oven and CSO stacked, 30-in Sub Zero, 36-in sink, and a counter work area 30-in depth, plus area at the island. I was hoping to get a hefty built-in cutting board in the island, which would sit lower. I'm 5'2" and like a lower surface somewhere. The space next to the stacked ovens has a flip up storage, probably for toaster, coffee gear, etc. If I keep this current setup and want the faces to match, I have to get the Sensotronic CSO and the oven. I've chosen obsidian black. If I want an M touch I can do the CSO but not the oven. Problem #1 is that the faces would not match although I'm told no one will notice. To get a plumbed CSO I have to get stainless steel and M touch. So now the oven in stainless steel but still in Sensotronic. Problem #2 I forego the obsidian black and the faces still don't match. There are no upper cabinets other than at the oven area. All drawers, no hardware even on the refrigerator. If I move the CSO, it would go to the left or right of the cooktop, This would separate the units given that the faces are not an exact match, and I could do the oven in obsidian black. It comes down having the CSO plumbed and having one M touch unit plus not having the faces match, or just going with everything Sensotronic and stacked and an unplumbed CSO. I'm sure this must be confusing to follow. All comments are appreciated. It's a new build so I think plumbing the CSO is no problem. I did read some negative comments that the plumbed version can have problems.