How old are the kids? The "kids nook" looks to me like a long hallway - what are the plans for this space? Is it going to have a desk and computer? I'm not sure I would enjoy working there with no natural light.

Do the kids each need a full bath? I'm not generally a fan of jack and jill baths, but two full baths seems extravagant (to my frugal mind). Or make a single bath opening to the hall, and put your little kids nook in the space of one bathroom, so they get a window.

The walk-in closets in the kids' rooms are not very efficient. You can't really hang clothes on two walls of an L - the corner gets lost. I think you'd be better off making them reach-in closets, to gain floor space in both rooms.

I would rework the powder room so the access is from the hall to the laundry room, not right into the living room.

The mast bath and closet are pretty convoluted. A much simpler solution would be to make the closet one long space from the bedroom to the laundry room, and the bathroom a long space along the garage wall. Moving the garage forward a few feet will allow for a window in the bathroom.

Speaking of laundry - why is it so big? With the closet in the hall and big windows, the laundry room doesn't look like it is set up for storage, and there is no counter space near the W/D or sink. Moving the washer and dryer to the outside wall will make it easier to vent the dryer. Personally I don't like a mud room/laundry combination, where one can come in from the garage and trip over a basket of clothes.

Great improvement.

One item: every full bathroom should have a window; any powder room that can should, too. No powder room should have a door that opens to a living where guests will congregate.

If you moved the entire master bedroom back a couple feet -- even with the back of the deck -- and tinkered with the interior design of the master bath, you could have a small window in the bath adjacent to the back wall of the garage.

You could then move the powder room by the stairs (or make that a coat closet instead of a powder room) by opting for a bath and a half alongside the garage wall: -- two powder rooms with your tub between the two powder room and you shower across from that between two huge walk in closets.

That would give you a lot more room for closet space.

Within the walls of the laundry, have you considered putting the washer and dryer and laundry sink against that out side wall with a row of windows above them? (base cabinet, washer, laundry sink, dryer, base cabinet) That way most of the interior walls between the laundry and the adjacent rooms could be solid floor to ceiling walls of closets.

You could leave room between the laundry appliances and that storage wall for a table or cart with wheels -- a table that could be rolled out into the garage or onto your deck or patio -- where you need it or against a wall if you want it out of the way. Something like this as wide/narrow/long as you need it with a top of your choosing -- something to match your stainless steel kitchen appliances or your choice of kitchen countertop.

https://www.rdm-ind.com/images/bench-a109p%20Wood%20Frame%20Casters.JPG

If you decide you don't need a three car garage, you could make the space between a two car garage and the mud room for a screened porch/sun room -- or just add a narrow screened porch between them as is or if you decide to flip your garage and access it -- two or three car garage -- from the right side. The screened porch/sun room need not be as long as either the house or the garage -- just a space for the kids to relax somewhere besides the deck.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Appreciate all of the input.

We have a boy and a girl, looking down the road to older and teen years (for us) having separate bathrooms seemed better.

AnnKH
Thanks for the suggestions on the master bed and bathroom, I totally agree :-)

We're tossing around the idea, of maybe turning the great room vertically instead to maybe allow more windows/light/and avoid walking right into everything as several have pointed out.

Do the steps go down to a basement or up to an attic? What's planned for there?

PPF Thank you! That is awesome and along the lines of what we're thinking! :-)

Judging by the size of the dining room table you must host large meals. The pantry looks to be inadequate for such undertakings. And it is a long long way from the garage to the pantry to put up groceries. Living on 4 acres means out from town and buying in bulk, so that stood out for me. Maybe you have bulk storage in the basement?

Jeremia, my sons are identical twins and the very best of friends. They rarely, if ever, used their shared bathroom at the same time. If you provide adequate storage and counter space for each child, they should have no problem sharing a bathroom. We just made sure they took turns cleaning it!

I'm sorry but is this a licensed architect? If so where are the elevations and how the house will be sitting on the land? Where's the basement?

This looks a bit too finished to be a rough done by an architect.

Sorry but while this isn't a fat roof, it's still not a good plan.

The idea of zoning, with bedrooms at opposite ends of the house, is a good idea. Your master bedroom, however, looks much to large and out of scale, compared to the rest of the house, and as others have pointed out the master bath area is a "start over".

Why is the kitchen located as far away from the garage as possible? This means humping groceries across the entire house, and dragging garbage and recycleables in the opposite direction. Why don't you reverse the layout and place the kitchen closer to the garage?

PPF's idea seems much more appropriate for your property and for proper solar orientation, assuming south is at the top of the sketch. If north is up, your interiors are going to be dark all day long.

I'd reorient the master suite in PPF's sketch so that the MBR looks out to the rear of the house.

I'd consider physically separating the garage and the house masses with a "utility room" knuckle or interior breezeway, so that the roof masses and wall massing are clearly separated and the proportions and scale of the exterior are improved.

Good luck on your project!

I wonder what the elevations look like, especially the roof lines along the porch, and that odd little jog by the garage. I also noticed there is no man door from the garage to the back yard.

Things I like:

• the passthrough window in the kitchen to the deck; the openness of the kitchen / family / great room; master access to the deck; the fact that you seem to have a Porsche and a 2 seater F1 car. ;-)

• Things I don't like:

• Missing windows on 2 sides of the kids' rooms; closets in the kids rooms look like a 2D design afterthought (why not slide door down a fuzz, and do a full wall of reach in, instead of awkward corner design?); corner pantry of shame in kitchen; and sadly the entire flow / layout and massing of the master + laundry area. Can you imagine standing in from of the washer dryer and having everyone need to get by you pr slam the door into you - and yet you have all this other space everywhere in the room that appears to serve no purpose???? and lastly that area behind the garage and around the side of the master has potential to be like a super unattractive siding extravaganza. HOWEVER - it could make for a great "outdoor movie night projection area"..

• One word of warning - be wary of all those pocket doors. While they are lovely to save space, they don't like constant movement and they don't "seal up" to block noise / moisture / smells all that well. They are better for more occasional use.

• I think you have some more work to do - but it's good to get your thoughts down on paper / try some things out.

PPF's quick idea is so much better! There is a logical progression throughout the house, there is a natural walkway across the back making the whole house seem more connected to the outside. Instead of a kids nook there is easy access to the stairs. There's even a way to create a sense of entry, without a foyer. Don't you need a guest closet? I don't see a guest bath in PPF's plan but none is better than the one in the middle the living room, door open to the front door and living room. Well, almost better.

Virgil Carter Fine Art

Thank you, all excellent suggestions and will pass them along to the architect!

jannicone

Thanks for the input, and I agree that the kids' bedrooms do need more windows as well and I'll take a look again at the pocket doors :-)

cpartist

Yes, licensed architect and this is a preliminary/rough draft floor plan to get us working toward where we need to get.

gustaviatex

Thanks for the suggestions I think we are going to flip the great room horizontally with the kitchen near the garage.

We are in town, so only 5 minutes from grocery store, etc. but will re-look at the pantry area. :-)

Walking from the car to the pantry is maybe something to consider, but not a big deal breaker. We've always had a walk from car to kitchen. You just do what you have to do. My friend is in a third floor walk up. The groceries manage to make it to the kitchen.

First you really need more windows on the south wall assuming the rear is south.

I wouldn't want to enter into the chairs of the living room. I'd want some sort of division between my living space and my entry space.

Where is a coat closet as you enter the main entry?

You enter the main entry and one of the first views is of the powder room door. Plus it's basically in your living room. Not the best location.

Is that an angled pantry room door? If so that is more what is done in inexpensive tract homes than in custom homes. I also think it will look awkward as it will close off the entry there to the kitchen. Plus it looks like where the pantry is will make the aisle there too narrow.

There is lots of wasted space between the staircase and the living room, yet the living room looks tight.

Getting furniture into the kids rooms will be difficult with that turn.

With both kids rooms on corners why are their only windows on one wall. This will help with cross breezes on those nice nights you want the windows open, or with bringing more light into the rooms.

In the master bedroom to go outdoors, you have to walk clear around the bed. Or if coming in from the hall, by the side of the bed.

The door in the corner like that appears to be a bit awkward.

The only windows in the master are on the back wall where the bed is. I again would want more natural light in the room.

The bathroom layout is bad. I'm sorry but that's the only thing I can say. The corner shower looks like something out of a 90's bathroom and doesn't make the best use of the space.

I don't like the two skimpy looking vanities.

It's like an obstacle course to get to the toilet in the middle of the night.

How will you get between the vanity and behind the tub.

It's an obstacle course to go from the bedroom door to the closet door because it's not a straight line.

There is lots of wasted space in the laundry/mudroom.

Do you want the laundry front and center as you come in from the garage?

Why a fireplace right at the end of the kitchen counter run?

There no windows in the master bath. Again windows make a space much more conducive to feeling "good".

The kid's "nook" will be dark without any natural light and certainly not conducive to playing or doing anything else except getting out of the space.

I agree with Ann that reach in closets in the kids rooms would be a better use of space.

Also agree that two children really don't need to have their own bathroom. I had one of each and they managed to share one bathroom. Heck all four of us managed to share one bathroom since we never got around to adding a master suite in our 100 + year old house. Just make sure there is separate storage for both kids.

I like PPF’s layout much better! I totally get wanting a master on the opposite side, it just wasn’t working for me with the garage and windows and such. Too close, too much wall, and the bathroom really needs some light if you can manage.

I don't see a guest bath in PPF's plan

Small box just above pantry.

PPF.

Holy smokes, you're awesome! :-D

PPF much better but still feels off on the exterior

Some thoughts with having only briefly skimmed the replies, some may have already been suggested: Your washer & dryer will become a dumping ground for everything when you walk in the door from the garage with the door opening that way. Better to have that part free for hanging coats, a place to set keys, bags, purses, mail, shoes, etc. Master bath definitely should have a window & the closet should be entered directly from the bedroom, not through the bath first. Ditto the advice about the front door not opening into middle of the living room. Don’t let anyone convince you to shrink the garage, especially w/ all that acreage. You can never have too big a garage & everyone I know who built their house regrets not making their garages bigger. Especially when they can’t even open their car doors in them & that’s without all the other stuff that normally goes in there.

I think we're going to run with several points of feedback from everyone and the awesome suggestions of PPF. :-)

We are going to lay turn it, align the bathroom along the outer wall, move the closet inward, etc.

We'll post another revision after we get our updates back. :-)

Thanks so much again PPF.!

We personally like the sideways garage if we can get away with not obstructing and re-laying out the master bathroom.

We'll have to give a little thought to bringing a little (character, I think) to the facade. Maybe dormers or row of windows along the roof or something.

We're also tossing around raising the roof line (only in the back of the house) or adding dormers for windows as well.

I was thinking the same about adding some windows, and it certainly needs some character.

Yeah, something along those lines I think adds a lot to the aesthetics and character :-)

Any thoughts or opinions on angling the garage and connecting via a breezeway or something?

I have not read all the comments, but my first thoughts are:

1. The entry right into a living space is less than desirable (to me)

2. You need to move that powder room. I don't understand having this huge laundry area, , 21' wide master bedroom, and leaving the powder room with a door right off living room area & sharing a wall with the coffee bar. And a pocket door, yet! As a guest I would feel horribly uncomfortable going to use that room.

When I work with a client from the land up we start with furniture layout in each room, how you will use the rooms throughout the day, the views you want, window and door layout, where you will sit, stand sleep walk, everything. Do you want the morning sun to wake you? Do you want to view the sunset from your living room? Do you collect art? It should be in an area that does not receive direct sunlight. Do you entertain? Where will people put their coats? Powder rooms need to be off hallways for privacy. Do you have overnight guests who may have difficulty with stairs? Do you like to open your windows for a breeze? Do you want the protection of a foyer from outdoor weather, from anyone ringing your doorbell? Think of everything. Then we join the rooms in a way that work best for the client. Once they are joined the house is designed is done. The exterior is drawn in the desired style to enclose the rooms. This is the opposite of how architects work which is why I employ an engineer and a drafts person to execute the drawing. Architect kept moving things to look they way they want the house to look on the outside. We live on the inside. The outside can be modified to work the way we want. We should never have to alter our lifestyle to live according to the architect's design. Start with your designer, then tell your architect he or she must enclose your rooms in your chosen style without alteration of windows or placement. An engineer should sign off on any structural concerns but if your architect won;t work with your plan hire another one....make this clear from the beginning. This is YOUR home. Enjoy the process but get what you want and plan for tomorrow's possibilities.

We should never have to alter our lifestyle to live according to the architect's design.

It's obvious you have no clue how a talented architect works. A talented architect works to make sure the client doesn't have to alter their lifestyle but instead of just drawing from the inside out and slapping something on the exterior, they work both the inside and exterior at the same time.

Additionally you stated that people live on the inside. I don't know where you live, but most people where i live, utilize both the interior and exterior rooms. Meaning their outdoors.

I'm sure you're about as talented as my "designer" was.

UPS store address, no license, no industry affiliation, no degree, no website, no Linked in, no portfoloio, and 2 ugly pictures. And the absolute most inane and wrongheaded comment ever from a pseudo professional.

We need emoticons here. I can’t roll my eyes back in my head hard enough.

It is one of the most amazing comments I have seen here on Houzz.

Troll.

Lol, so I’m going to keep going down the path we are headed and make some changes based on everyone’s input

And that ladies and gents is how McMansionism came into being. And the self centered naval gazing of a prize for everyone regardless of merit. The anti meritocracy

Am I missing something...?

Just the paragraphless nonsense in a sad attempt to spam.

Just the paragraphless nonsense in a sad attempt to spam.

Meaning Mint's comment or lack of comment.

Ok, yeah I saw that and just ignored it :-D

BTW: Don't get discouraged because it will all come together.

Cpartist

Thank you for the encouragement!

Not discouraged at all, I’m taking some comments with a grain of salt - while others have helped tremendously (laying the great room horizontally, putting the kitchen closer to the garage, etc).

We sent our suggestions (based off everyone’s input) to the architect, and he’s going to make some changes and updates to the layout. :-)

And that’s just it - play with it as much as you can now. paper is cheap :D. You’ll get there, and I’ll be excited to see the final plans when you do.

dsnine


Thanks! :-)

Heck I could paper my powder room (and probably the upstairs hallway) with all the paper versions I did of my house.

Cp, I came across the various plans for my dad's house, and I was thinking of papering a room -- or two! -- in their house with them. Doing the bathrooms is a great idea!

Jeremiah, you're going to have a fine house when all is said and done (oh, it will never all be said and done, we always have something to say lol!) Keep on going.

-The master bath layout is a mess. The corner shower, stand alone tub, and vanity locations are all wrong.

I agree with this. The bath is large, but it could be so much more efficient ... and you're already concerned about light. This is all do-able, but I'd toss the whole bathroom and start fresh.

On the positive side, I like the connection between the bathroom -closet - laundry - causal entryway.

-The "kids nook" is just a hallway.

What do you anticipate the kids doing in this area? You could have to-the-ceiling bookshelves (or closets). Possibly desks. But overall, I think you'd be better off skipping what's really a wide hallway /incorporating this space into the bedrooms.

-Having the front door open in the middle of the living room may pose
issues.

You're hitting on all the things I was going to point out. You want a place for a table so guests can drop their keys and purses ... depending upon your geography, you may need a coat closet for guests.

You have all that empty space between the sofa and the stairs ... but your entry isn't welcoming for guests. What if the door moved over to the right?

-The laundry room seems disproportionately large

It is large, but if it's also a mudroom, it might be worthwhile.

OP, what activities /storage do you anticipate this room supporting?

I'd definitely move the washer /dryer to the exterior wall. This will allow the dryer to vent directly outside ... cheaper to build, safer in terms of fire safety, easier to clean the vent.

Still not crazy about two bathrooms for two kids but maybe that's just me.

Well, it's me too. It's an unnecessary expense and more cleaning to be done. Two kids should be able to share a bathroom without undue stress -- boys, girls, doesn't matter.

I would rework the powder room so the access is from the hall to the laundry room, not right into the living room.

Yes, this is an absolute necessity. I'd also consider a larger, more comfortable powder room. Imagine Grandma trying to get in there with her walker. And pocket doors are great choices for doors that stay open most of the time ... but not so good for doors that are used frequently.

the passthrough window in the kitchen to the deck

That's a nice feature! Be sure you have a "landing spot" or ledge outside.

Missing windows on 2 sides of the kids' room

Yes, all three bedrooms could use additional windows on a currently blank wall. Natural light from two (or more) sides is always more pleasant.

Note that you have the ability to have this ideal natural light in the rooms where you'll be asleep ... while your main living areas are pushed to the center of the house and have smaller /lesser light.

Walking from the car to the pantry is maybe something to consider, but not a big deal breaker. We've always had a walk from car to kitchen. You just do what you have to do. My friend is in a third floor walk up. The groceries manage to make it to the kitchen.

Sure, it's do-able ... but you have the opportunity to avoid this chore. Why not use it?

My daughter and son-in-law briefly lived in a third floor walk-up. They were so ready to leave that apartment.

We personally like the sideways garage if we can get away with not obstructing and re-laying out the master bathroom.

If you go with a side-entry garage, do put thought into your guests' arrival sequence. It's easy to design a layout in which your guests will have to park on the side of the house /won't have a view of the front door as they leave their cars. Side-entries are bad -- not by any measure -- but you need to think through the parking /steps in arrival.

Other thoughts:

- Check on the cost of a two-sided fireplace before you commit to it.

- Will that large dining room table always be that large ... or will you be able to remove leaves? Note that with the table as it's currently laid out, it blocks the way to the garage entry and master bedroom ... you'll have to walk around the end of that table multiple times every single day. If you're talking about the table being this large just occasionally when you have people over, it's okay ... if this is going to be an everyday thing, it'll drive you nuts.

- At both the dining room table and the island, you have squished in an unlikely /uncomfortable number of chairs.

- I'd cut down the size of the master bedroom. It's bigger than my (perfectly comfortable) family room. A room this size won't feel comfortable -- imagine squinting to see the TV on the wall across the room.

- How about simplifying /reducing the size of the garage entry /master with something like this? It's still quite large ... it gives you a small window into the master /not really enough ... and you can still have an exterior door between the master and the back patio.

Following

Great advice happening here!

following ... similar to our layout and we are soon going to break ground (waiting for the weather to cooperate)

Our new revisions/changes: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/floor-plan-updates-again-dsvw-vd~5206825