It looks very healthy to me. SDLM's new canes often look like that...like purple aliens bursting out of the soil! I'd be excited if I were you - just look at those adorable buds at the end of the stem.

Are we looking at the same pictures? I see older normal looking leaves, and then at the top of that cane, some really strange growth. That chartreuse green new stems emerging from the axes of the newer leaves, some new leaves that are lacking any but their apical leaflets, and the faster the growth is coming, the closer the internodal distances are.

That growth is not normal. '

I disagree with Christopher that those are baby canes, they aren't. They are breaks where such breaks are illogical. And IMO they aren't adorable buds, but the symptoms of something that is either bad or terrible.

Is there any herbicide spraying being done in the area? Or any possible application of a complex fertilizer that might have growth stimulants?

If not, please contact your county extension agent tomorrow and ask him if there is commercial rose growing in your area and even if there isn't, see if he can send part of that rose in for analyses.

I've seen the exact same narrow leaves at the growing tip of my SDLM's basal canes time and again - especially when the cane appears during our warmer, arid months in summer...which would be the equivalent of spring weather in Arizona. It's like SDLM expends so much energy quickly producing a fat basal cane, the leaves are initially an afterthought...so they look very strange, like deflated flaps of purple skin! But when the cane reaches its full length, they will inflate and green up normally, the buds will swell and everything will march along happily. I bet SDLM loves that Arizona heat!

John, In your colder climate, do you see the very short internodal distances between nodes? And the difference in pigmentation of the leaves?

My SdlMs made sprays, not flower buds all along a stem. How about yours?

Ann, the "baby canes" to which I referred are the older stems, not the new growth. It's the term I use for the cuttings taken to make own-root roses, which were taken from outer tips and which will continue to grow as if they're outer tips, despite now having roots at the bottom.

I very much respect all your knowledge about RRD, but considering your growing zone, I'm assuming you're not very familiar with how Teas or roses with recent Tea ancestry will grow on new basal canes. My 'Perle d'Or' does this, as does 'Clodilde Soupert' -- two Polys with Tea ancestry. So does my SdlM, and my other Bourbon-Tea 'Mme Dore'. And so do my true Teas, and most of my Chinas.

It's as though these roses are programmed to put forth blooming growth, then grow further upon that blooming growth. Other roses put forth growing growth, then bloom when it reaches some predetermined size. It's along the lines of what I described when I commented on how I learned to deadhead 'Perle d'Or' in this thread. Every year, these roses will put forth candelabra canes that show flower buds before the canes have hardened, and before the leaves have greened. After the flowers fade, new blooming shoots form where you'd never expect them -- from leafless canes along the candelabra.

Another reason I'm doubting this is RRD is that there are no buds stimulated at the bases of the lower leaves -- just the top few.

Again, I mean no disrespect -- I just disagree.

:-)

~Christopher

Yep, it really looks just like the SDLM I grow. Towards the end of the cane, it starts to make buds - generally about three - at each node, and then there's a larger spray at the end. The odd coloring and distance between nodes is also what I see in my garden on basal growth. If given these pictures and asked what rose it was, I would have guessed SDLM.

I have grown teas for eighteen years until the moles and voles discovered how delicious their roots were. I also grow noisettes and chinas, FWIW.

I specifically didn't say it was RRD. There is a chance that it was an infection from earlier this year that affected undifferentiated apical meristem material. And that it's moving down the stem, not upwards.

I'm not sure what it is, but it's not what I;ve seen on my SdlM (climbing and regular), S de St. Annes, and the more yellowish one whose name I can't recall after midnight.

A certain French rose grower has suggested to me that Perle d'ore has a lot of noisette, and that's the bloom pattern I see on mine, more than tea like setting of buds.

Because there is a growing rose industry in Arizona, I would strongly suggest that this rose be looked at a lot more closely.

I'm trying to find examples of this "buds on still-red growth" in Teas or roses with Tea ancestry....

Le Pactole

Perle d'Or -- lower left

Lady Hillingdon -- upper right

Perle des Jardins

Clotilde Soupert

Mme Dore -- a bit late, but showing how they end up

This trait seems to have mostly been lost on Hybrid Teas, which seem to hold off on producing flower buds until the cane has reached some predetermined length, then leaves green up and flower buds form after.

:-)

~Christopher

Ann, take a look back at the thread I linked where I talked about my 'Perle d'Or'. Scroll down past it, and look at the pictures Ken Wilkinson posted of his Hybrid Tea 'Dr. John Dickman' in the same thread. Your thoughts?

:-)

~Christopher

In my opinion, the Noisette your friend sees in 'Perle d'Or' is really the meshing of Multiflora clusters with Tea cymose inflorescence. The result is the Tea pattern of holding buds, but the buds are more numerous and smaller in size. It does resemble R. moschata in that way, and it's true that all yellow Teas today derive from Noisettes, but the most recent ancestry in 'Perle d'Or' is Tea and Multiflora. That the blooms remain rather upright rather than facing outward when they open hints more at Multiflora than Moschata, since the blooms on the latter do nod a bit upon opening. In my mind, it's just two different roads leading to a similar destination, so I understand the comparison.

I suspect this thread will be updated by the OP when the blooms open, so we'll all find out then. But for now, I'm still holding to this being within the realm of "normal" for SdlM and others.

:-)

~Christopher

"I suspect this thread will be updated by the OP when the blooms open, so
we'll all find out then. But for now, I'm still holding to this being
within the realm of "normal" for SdlM and others."

I concur. I too have seen a healthy plant of 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' do this.

Thank you, all! Since it is still questionable, and taking into account that it grows pretty quickly and will bloom in no time with our warming weather, I will let it bloom. And will update this thread later.

We sprayed nothing around it and the bush is pretty much in the center of our property. I read this forum a lot even though not posting often and learned this thing, no pesticides around roses. Well, truth to be said no pesticides at all anywhere :) I can definitely attest that the warmer it is more SDlM likes it. The feeding was regular, nothing special or different from last year. Some Dr.Earth rose fertilizer, that I made tea of to have it in a liquid form for a good start.

We do have rose plantations around here in Arizona, but they are pretty far away from Phoenix valley. And seems like there are not that many rose addicted people in my neighborhood... Still keep fingers crossed!

When I saw the third picture I said, " Uh oh." I'm sure you'll keep an eye on it.

If you decide to wait and see, you may want to spray the plant with something like Wilt-Pruf. This would smother any mites (if present).

I frankly haven't seen this appearance in either of my two SdlM at any stage of their growth, and thought that this looked suspicious, but I'm no expert and the majority agrees it's nothing to worry about. I very much hope they're right.

Little update. It slowed down. Leaves look exactly the same way as the shorter branches... maybe it IS SDlM?

I'm still sticking to my thought that this is just a vigorous candelabra coming as the first from-the-roots new cane on a finally-settling-in rose. When the blooms fade, don't cut the cane back to the first set of five leaflets. Instead, leave the spent candelabra, and see what happens. Some of those leafless canes will sprout growth buds where you didn't expect them to be, and this cane will be the beginning of your rose's future framework.

:-)

~Christopher

Thank you, Christopher. I kind of leaning towards your and John opinion too. Now it looks like the same rose. Almost :) and I definitely won’t cut it back. I always appreciate your advise. They always work!

I think you’ll find there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this plant. It’s not typical for ‘Souvenir de la Malmaison’ to perform this way, but neither is it unheard of.

I’m happy to update further. Had first flower from that candelabra and it looks and smells identical to the plant! Happy dance! Even my husband started following its life lol Please forgive the mess on the background.

I posted on the Rose forum, but thought I would ask you guys too whether this is normal or RRV.

I have this weird thorny growth on otherwise healthy Mystic Beauty which is a sport of Sdlm.

That looks more troubling to me. It might be RRD, it might be growth coming from a damaged cane/bud, or it might be the result of herbicide damage. If you could take pics of from where that shoot is emanating, it would help.

:-/

~Christopher

I agree. Definite red flags. Another photo or two as suggested by Christopher would be really helpful. Carol

Thanks so much guys.

It was hard to get in there but here are the lighter green thick new canes from which the weird growth is emerging

Here is the weird growth today. Starting to elongate and unfurl.

Totoro, that looks decidedly suspicious to me. I can't cite technical reasons like Ann or Christopher can. For me it's more a question of overall pattern matching after encountering RRD all over Dallas and in my mother's garden. There's something about the haphazard, sinuous, contorted growth along with the elongated foliage, reddish color and extended skinny sepals. The candelabra shots at the top of this thread look odd but purposeful. The growth on your plant looks confused. I hope Christopher and Ann can give you a more definitive diagnosis and details, but if your plant were in my garden, I'd quarantine it at the very least.

So sorry that my replies are all ones you don't want to read! Maybe another forum member will point out why my observations are out in left field. Carol

It's hard for me to tell for sure from just pictures, so I'll ask you to evaluate it for yourself. Note the prickles -- are they noticeably different in shape, size, and abundance on those canes as compared to new growth elsewhere? How about the sepals -- the questionable growth to my eye looks rather more "spider-y" than I'd expect. Do you see all three buds growing with equal vigor at each point? I've noticed here that sometimes that happens if the central bud is knocked back by Winter damage, and the two side buds are no longer suppressed, but then the central bud recovers. In those cases, however, the side buds are "ahead" of the central bud, and there's a noticeable difference in vigor among the trio. Looking at your pics, it seems you've encountered this before, because I see a few areas where more than one bud produced growth, looking like the central bud's growth was killed by Winter. Here, when that happens, I just prune that back to where only the central bud is growing -- when more than one new stem emanates from the same area, I find that none ever amounts to much, and I'd rather the growth start again lower down.

Honestly, if I saw that, I'd cut that whole cane back to the base, even if it seems extreme. Then, I'd wait, and if any new growth looks the same as that weird growth, I'd remove the plant entirely. I can't put a finger on it, but something's not right. It might be RRD, in which case there's nothing you can do. It might not be RRD, but something weird is going on. Maybe the cane above that point had some severe damage, and the rose is slowly self-amputating it, directing resources to that new cane. But....hmmm....I'd be worried.

:-/

~Christopher

Thanks so much. Folks on the rose forum are worried too. One person said that the thick canes arising from a thinner cane was also typical of RRV.

It seems to be greening up and develeping buds today, but I agree it is very thorny and sepals look stringy.

Christopher, have you had luck with being able to save the plant by just removing the cane at the base? I

I did, once...but failed a second time. RRD hit three roses here. 'Yellow Sweetheart, Climbing' had just one cane and was limping along, so I removed it entirely, without even trying to save it. 'Mme de Sevigne' had it on the tip of one cane, so I cut it back to the ground, but later symptoms appeared at the base of another older cane, so I removed it entirely. 'Marie Pavie' had the tip of one cane showing symptoms at just one point, so I cut that back to its origin on the main "trunk", and two years later, no symptoms have reappeared.

Based on your last photos, I'd assume RRD, and cut it back severely, then sterilize your pruners with rubbing alcohol. Throw the infected branches in a garbage bag and leave for trash pick-up. Then wait and see if any new growth shows similar symptoms. If so, you'll have to remove the whole bush. Sorry....it sucks. RRD just drops in from the sky randomly, but the key to saving the others is catching it early.

If you're comparing yours to the pics earlier in this thread, here's the difference -- those pics show an unusual amount of growth that, individually per shoot, is otherwise normal. Your pics show a few points of growth that, individually per shoot, is abnormal.

:-/

~Christopher

Totoro, Christopher's advice is absolutely spot on and detailed as always, isn't it? .I'm glad you've received helpful Rose Forum responses, too, but I'm so sorry that you must deal with this situation. I'm impressed with your vigilance and wish every gardener, home owner, landscaper and nursery were as on it as you are. Early detection is vitally important. Wishing you all the best with your containment and recovery work! Please keep us updated if you have a chance to do so. Carol

Thanks so much everyone for your advice ans patience. I will cut out the half with the RRV and see if I can save the other cane.

Thanks so much to everyone for your advice. A new cane grew from the spot where I cut the infected one and looks fine so far. Will continue to monitor

I hope you got it in time! I'm thinking of you. Vigilance is everything these days, isn't it? Vigilance, continued vigilance and more vigilance. Now, it's time for a relaxing cup of tea. Have a lovely Saturday! Carol