Photos added

way back when I was a teenager and I used to install stero systems in my cars that were way too big. we used a sound deadening stick on film on the quarter panels of the car to keep it from rattleling. perhaps if you opted for the one you like best and it is still too loud. you can apply that material to the underneath where it will not be see seen because it is inside your cabinet.

None of that import sourced stuff with issues. https://www.rachiele.com/

I just bought a copper apron sink from Havens Metal.

Havens Metals

I wanted a specific configuration with a left rear drain. Both Havens and Rachiele are expensive.

I was considering Copper Sinks Online. It is less expensive than Havens or Rachiele but their specifications indicate they are a well made copper sink product. Their care and maintenance do not state that drying and waxing are necessary - a sure sign of a lesser quality sink. Here's a link to their website and you can see that their sinks are less costly but still have quality specifications and a living patina. As stated above, I wanted a specific configuration so I decided to pay more (a lot more LOL) for exactly what I wanted since I plan to die in this home and why not - my heirs will have to be content with a bit less LOL

Copper Sinks Online

Lower gauge is higher quality. My sink is 14 gauge but 16 is probably okay. I am not sure I would want a 17 gauge.

In my extensive research on copper sinks, I think I checked out every purveyor - even going back in the time for links to sinks purchase more than ten years ago. LOL

I would not get anything with a fake finished - i.e. the sinks that are artificially brown. With a natural finish, you have a living patina that can't be destroyed. If copper comes in contact with acidic food (i.e. lemons or ketchup), the patina will be lost and it will shine in those areas. Lemon and salt are classic ways to shine copper :-). The patina will return shortly. With an artificial finish, the finish can be destroyed.

I would also avoid a hammered interior as the indentations can cause water to accumulate and make it more difficult to clean the bottom.

If you like the weathered look of a copper sink with a patina - think of a penny - it's a great look. If you expect your sink to be shiny, then it's probably not a good choice because it would require a high degree of maintenance - and stay away from the artificial deep brown factory finishes.

Yeouch the prices!! I'm liking the $500 budget... my hubby would say no way to $1000+. :( :(

edit: looking towards the $1000 range now. He's not about to install a subpar product under a concrete sink. Too hard to change!

Those sinks are beautiful. It's confusing because all these companies call everyone else the "other guy" and claim their sink patina changes and heals- although you can always pick your patina. So hard to know. A few hundred is already expensive for a sink so I'm having to convince my husband (and myself) that I can spend the $$ on copper. So- best value for a long lasting piece is hard to find I guess.

I would go for a classic stainless steel undermount sink- it will last forever and be the workhorse of your kitchen.

The Copper Sinks Online are approximately $1000 for farm style and have a living patina. It’s still a splurge but not that more than the stainless equivalent. I am splurging on a few items that will be permanent like the sink. I figure I can easily change the faucet down the road

Any factory finish that isn’t natural is not a living patina so avoid the antique bronze type of factory finished as those can be damaged. I believe Copper Sinks Online has a natural finish

Copper Sinks Online does have a patina you can pick as well as recommends waxing. Not sure what to look for anymore.

I think you may want to consider a stainless sink unless you can afford to gamble on a $500 copper one.

I now budgeted in $1000. :)

edit: looking towards the $1000 range now. He's not about to install a subpar product under a concrete sink

Do you mean concrete countertop? what do you mean?

OCD=wax. No OCD=no wax. I’m in the no wax set. We also have wooden counters because if the counters are granite every “oops” makes them look damaged, while wood just looks used and loved.

As Jerry wrote, if you have a living patina, waxing is not necessary. The wax theoretically is there to protect the patina.

The differentiation is between a factory manufactured finish which can be harmed by use and a "natural" living patina which is not artificially finished to a specific color so that it changes back and forth - acidic foods will make it shinier where the acid hits but then in a short period of time, it will go back to the original unshined look.

Thanks so much all for all the input!! I found a coppersmith one that I love <3 and I feel like I'm going to love it! I understand about the waxing now- confusing with different ways to enjoy the copper finish- I want the changing colors!!

Great kitchen Gerry! I want a wooden (not butcher block) island top for that reason- it'll be nice and dented in no time with my 5 kids!

To clarify- I did mean concrete counter tops, not sink. Terms are swirling through my head lol- I want to solidify my kitchen design soon so we can get on our cabinetmaker's list. I'm second guessing everything! But that's another thread for another time.. :)

It's nervewracking deciding all this- don't want to throw down thousands (plus many many of our hours of time) and then have major regrets!!

Which style did you select and did you confirm with them that it's a natural living finish?

I'm going with an apron style 33" antique finish. Confirmed as a "living finish" - they explained that they patina using heat which will change with use just like a raw copper finish but I think of it like a "starter patina".

Skip a concrete counter unless you want the patina of your garage floor next to the patina of your sink. They etch and stain just as much as marble but without any of the natural beauty.

It sounds like more or less what I got. Mine wasn't delivered shiny like a new penny but already has a natural patina which was done at the factory but it isn't a fake factory finish so it will go shiny or dull as it lives.

Glad you found something beautiful and functional at your price point.

@sophie we already have concrete and I love them. We ground them down to show the rocks inside and then stained them black and sealed. No staining- they're awesome! Kind of have the look of granite. Love them (and the cost ;) )

Hi Ash, I'm looking into a copper sink. Can you please share the make and model (and if you don't mind) cost of yours and if you are happy with your choice?

Ours isnt going to be completed and installed til next year I can't vouch for it yet- I can say that it may have been a poor choice to buy one on eBay as it came dented. I was able to get a partial refund and my husband is going to fix the dent. So! Sorry I'm no help!

You have been help. Not only you responded, but as well told us where not to get ours from! Good luck with your Reno and thank you for responding! :)

I had a copper kitchen sink in my previous home. Loved the appearance but not the fact you can not put bleach in it.

Why not? The worst that bleach can do is make the copper shiny. It will get back to its normal colour in a short time.

Linda Ransom, that's only true for low grade copper sinks. We build copper sinks made from high grade American copper and bleach is fine to use in the sink, it won't damage at all.

Heavens Metal - Is it true that hard water can cause damage to the copper (turn green)? Do your sinks retain their patina as it was purchased (I understand that copper is a living finish)? I'm very meticulous, and although in love with copper sinks it's a choice I don't want to regret.

We've had our Rachiele copper sink for a couple of years now in hard water, No green. I believe Haven's sinks are similar, although I don't have any first hand experience. I wipe the sink after food prep to get rid of the particles, but that's about it--very low maintenance. I suppose if all you ever did was rinse the sink every day for a few years but not use it otherwise, it would turn green--no one uses a sink like that.

@Jorn - I think you have a misunderstanding of what a living patina is.

Copper sinks made by Rachiele and Havens don't have a factory finish and therefore the surface of the sink will change as it is used and various substances are applied - i.e. acidic foods like lemons or ketchup will make the sink shiny in spots because the "patina" will be lost in spots. It's equivalent to shining the copper because the patina is in effect a form of tarnish that occurs when copper (or other reactive metals like silver) are exposed to the normal atmosphere or come in contact with certain things. The patina will then return - i.e. the shine will disappear in a relatively short period of time but the "living" patina will NEVER have a consistent finish unless you polish it every day which is not what most people would commit to with a kitchen sink. One might polish the bottom of a copper clad pan but not a sink.

There are some sinks - but not ones like Rachiele or Havens - that have artificially patinaed finishes and those finishes will generally degrade over time because normal maintenance and contact with foods will wear down the finish. Typically those artificial patinas are the unnaturally dark brown finishes that you see on less expensive copper sinks - the surfaces of the sinks are also generally hammered because it can disguise inferior workmanship.

You will generally see that the care instructions of the inferior sinks state the sinks should be waxed to protect the factory finish and also often state the sink should be dried after use. The wax does protect the surface of the copper and preserve whatever patina there is for a bit until the wax wears off and the surface of the copper is again exposed to the atmosphere.

Theoretically you could wax a Rachielle or Havens sink to preserve the "patina" but most people who buy these sinks actually want the patina to keep changing as it gives them pleasure to see the surface of their sink change and deliberately bought these sinks for what they were. If you are a Type A personality who likes things shiny you aren't going to be happy with a living patina because to you it will look "splotchy" like the example Jerry posted of his sink. Others like myself and Jerry like that look.

Both Rachielle and Havens are expensive luxury sinks and in terms of my research are equivalent in quality - I don't want to open up a can of worms here but that's just objective reality. As I posted up thread, there are some less expensive copper sinks that are also high quality and have actual living patinas and not fake factory finishes which will degrade over time.

Copper turns green with exposure to extreme conditions and normally would not turn green in a kitchen sink. Copper roofs turn green - this green is actually called verdigris. I have read that sometimes small spots of green appear if a sink isn't used for awhile but that is easily wiped away. In normal use, copper doesn't turn green because it is being used.

You are the only person who can determine whether you actually can embrace a kitchen sink that isn't shiny in the traditional way or whether you will find it "dirty" looking. If the latter, go with another surface as you will be annoyed on a daily basis by the living patina.

Helen, thanks so much for your detailed information on this thread, I know the Houzz community greatly appreciates it! I truly enjoyed working with you and I hope you are really enjoying the new sink :)

@Alex Havens - I am still in the process of remodeling and Count Dracula is still in the coffin with his native Florida soil :-). I hope to maybe be able to move back at the end of September as I have been told that kitchen cabinets "might" be installed starting tomorrow.