Do you have drainage holes in the bottom of the cups? You should have, to be able to adjust the moisture

if not.. just slice the bottom edge of the cup with a razor blade ...

i used water bottles ..

i actually rooted these in doors in winter ... in gallon milk jugs ... then potted them up like this.. then into the ground in fall ...

you might want to work on that potting media .... looks too peaty for trees ...

ken

no no, I was wondering how long they will be able to stay in a cup that size, ya know, before the roots need more room? And what size pots would be the next step up. Isn't there a standard that say a plant nursery would use for trees?

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. This time of year, I could just plant them in the ground, wait until they are the size I want (mostly just giving them as gifts), then dig and pot or B&B, right?

This is already getting to be a lot more work than I want to do.

FWIW: Ended up potting up a few and donated the rest to a local nursery. The nursery gives away small trees to children when they visit the nursery, so this turned out to be a good idea and I don't have to start a nursery in my back yard lol.

This whole thing started when I wanted to bring some seeds home so I could have one for the yard but got a little out of hand when they all sprouted.

Gotta learn to control myself. :-)

if you cut holes in the cups.. a good sign of time to up pot.. would be when the roots grew out the holes .. eh??? .. or in the case of my SEE THRU pots.. well .. bazinga ...

the other alternative.. as with any potted plant.. is to simply tip the plant out of the pot.. and use your god given eyes to LOOK and see the status of the roots .. eh ...

you mocked yourself.. so i hope you dont mind.. i rolled with it .. lol .... otherwise.. please forgive me ...

most of us feel.. that the industry standard.. is to leave them in each size pot.. about a year too long.. so that by the time they grow to sale size.. the roots are so screwed up.. the only way to succeed is to perform major root surgery.. and cut most of them off ... rotflmbo ....

ken

np ken,

I did have a drain hole in the center of the bottom of the cups but I also set a disc of landscape fabric in the bottom so dirt wouldn't wash through. I don't think I'll do that again but it seemed like a good idea at the time. :)

I read that Gleditsia triacanthos is known for developing a large tap root, so I was a bit concerned about how long I dared leave them in small cups. I feel it was good that I immediately transplanted the ones I kept because the tap root was already following the bottom of the cup, looking for a place to go. I think the fabric kept it from finding the drain hole.

Mixed my own for potting. 4 1 1 + dolomite. And used some free pots from nurseries I visited on my trip. The bark was coarse leftover after screening and had no way of grinding it smaller. I used a peat based potting soil instead of straight peat to try to even it out. Drains nice. They'll hopefully be in the ground by next year but if those nursery standards are correct, I can wait until they're 1" caliper lol. I was going to keep 4 but had extra dirt. ;-)

Planted one directly in the ground in the front yard. I once heard trees grow from seed in the wild without any help, so I thought I'd try this radical new idea. 8-))

BTW: Ken, what did you ever do with all those cloned conifers you rooted and potted up?

Planted the other 9 in the ground.

With over 2 months of growing season left, I figure they can make roots in the ground and establish a tap root rather than filling a pot with roots and overwintering pots under hard to control extreme conditions.

The 24" tubes should protect them from the big 3 (mice, rabbits and deer) over winter and I can cage them next year, if they survive and start growing above the tubes.

Most were located on wild land where there was consistently moist, loamy soil with water table a few to several feet below the surface. So hopefully watering needs will be minimal under normal weather conditions.

Lets hope for snow cover to protect them from winter kill. :-)

Checked on the Honey Locust planted out in the country, they are doing fantastic. Had a badger dig along side one but didn't hurt it so I filled the dirt in again. They are all at least 12" to 16" tall!

Didn't get any pics but the one in the front yard is similar and about 12" tall and is growing as a twin leader. I think the milk carton top let more light in maybe but not worried as I'll trim one off if it survives the winter. Top of the round tube is 12" exactly.

how do you know.. it was a badger??? .... lol....

Just a guess. Judging from the size & type of the dig and the available animals that would do that. Badgers like to dig for gophers in my field so I know they are around. Could be wrong.

Don't know what the ones in the country look like after several weeks of dry weather.

The one in my front yard is over 20" tall now but it gets watered regularly.

Put a standard 4' tube that I bought from the soil & water conservation office on the tree. This tree was completely covered with snow all winter and little green tufts are coming on all bud locations. I don't think it knew it was winter. :-)

I don't know how well tubes will affect how this species of tree grows. Gleditsia t. has a way of branching out on all main and secondary buds so there may be branches to trim, this fall, that grow up inside the tube. There was one that grew up, from lower down the trunk, along with the main leader last summer, that I pruned last fall.

The tree is 24" tall now with only that one branch that was cut.

All the maples I've tried tubes with grew straight up as a single leader with no side branches. Almost like they were competing with surrounding trees. We'll see. :)

Noticed the Gleditsia triacanthos (honey locust) level with the top of the 48" tube this morning.

3 days later:

Removed the tube today. There were only 2 branches that tried to 'follow the leader' up the tube but they only made it between half way and 2/3 of the way to the top. I removed them bc they were originating very low on the trunk, one was from the same branch location as the one I pruned last year.

It's very flexible after being supported by the tube all season, so we'll let it harden off more the rest of summer with a stake supporting it. Just under 5 ft. tall with many branchlets on the trunk. The trunk diameter near the bottom is ~3/8".

The Honey locust went to 6-1/2 ft. and appears to be slowing down for the season. The lower branches/leaves, that were inside the tube, turned tan/off white and fell off.

(A deer bit the trunk, hard, so I removed the stake and put the fence on. Fortunately, the trunk was strong enough it only damaged the bark and that's almost encapsulated already).

;-)

Beautiful progress. What are you using for stakes there? I have a roll of 5ft chicken wire and some tree seedlings I need to protect. What is that around the base of the trunk?

Thanks!

The stakes are ordinary, plastic coated, garden stakes, sold almost everywhere, including Menards. $0.99 :-) I like the 5 foot. because I can drive them into the ground a foot and use 4ft. chicken wire. I used 4 ft stakes this time bc I was out of 5 ft. It works.

Chicken wire won't stop small rodents so I put a plastic 'tree guard' at the base. The slots are less than 1/4" wide and from what I understand, mice can't get through something that small. I had a few of those here that I bought a few years ago and they have good ventilation. Supposed to protect from weed whackers but I don't have that problem. I've also used plain white tree tubes, cut to 6-8" tall, during the summer for this.

The Gleditsia triacanthos is pretty much standing on it's own. I still have one stake and one tie bc it tilts a little too much to the north. Lower stem is at least 5/8" dia. although I didn't measure it.

eta:

The deer chomp wound has completely encapsulated. :-)

It's on it's own! :o)

Today i let it go completely. Second season since starting from seed.

Was very spindly this spring. Staked it with 2 garden stakes and stretchable nylon material. Later this season reduced to one stake.

So don't let anybody tell you that a trunk has to be of a large girth to be able to support the tree.

This one is exactly 3/4" dia. at 6" above the ground with little taper and 5/8" abh.

I just did what I was told here and let it bob and weave with a stretchable tie and the stake one foot away from the tree. The tree would actually blow all directions but only so far.

8 ft. tall. Current wind SSW @ 14 mph. at time of picture.

Looking SE so a crosswind right to left.

Amazing how it can blow over near 90d when the wind gusts heavily and return to normal position when the wind dies down. Almost like it has a spring inside. :-)

7-24-22 Update:

Gleditsia triacanthos.

Still not producing thorns.

Looks good. I planted one in a "wild" area from a seed from a slightly thorned parent, but no thorns. It grows well in an area where many trees I've tried do not -- rocky, heavy, poorly-drained clay. Difficult to dig even w/a heavy digging-iron.

Thanks, beng,

These like moisture, it takes all the extra water I want to give it. It's in a slight low dip where rain runoff collects, but porous soil. It's not too far from the street and neighbor's driveway and these are supposed to be somewhat salt tolerant. One of the reasons I put it in that location.

It wasn't staked this spring, but trunk wanted to bend will all the lush new growth. :-)

BillMN-z-2-3-4 Are you looking for thorns? If you are then there are a couple options. Most places sell inermis, but a lot of eastern Europeans will ship the thorny seeds. Alternatively, Sheffield's or F.W. Schumacher got in a bunch of thorny seeds. I bought them. They were good but didn't germinate quite as well as those I got off of Etsy.

Naw, really don't want thorns.

I was told by some that's what I'd get with a tree started from seed but it hasn't happened and that's good.

You can see remnants of thorns on the branches (little bumps).

I have a hawthorn planted out back when I want thorns. ;-)

Fair enough! I think the tufts of thorns produced by Gleditsia triacanthos are stunningly beautiful. I don't think I have a lot of company.

P.S. May I ask, from where did your take your cutting? I have heard that if you take a cutting from higher than about 15 feet (generally not thorny up there) it will not get thorny after it's been rooted.

I collected seed for this one from a honey locust tree in northern Illinois.

I've never done cuttings so I can't tell you about that part.

They're so easy to start from seed and so fast growing, I don't know if I would mess with cuttings.

Oh, and I wouldn't have minded thorns, I was fine either way. :-)

7-12-2023:

My fault, I wasn't paying attention, but you can tell by the last picture of my Gleditsia Triacanthos tree from seed posted above, due to vigorous growth last season, the top 1/3 of the tree began to take a lean or bending over at the top.

By the last part of August, it dawned on me that wasn't just a 'branch' leaning over but the whole top of the tree. 8-23-2022:

After several attempts to stake/splint the tree with my 5 ft. step ladder (with DW holding it of course), I realize I needed to get higher, much higher, if I was going to make the tree 'perfect' lol. That tree has got to be 18 ft. tall maybe 20' after straightening it up.

My new neighbor brought his 'Little Giant' safety ladder over and with him holding the ladder, we managed to get high enough to be able to get things back to almost perfect. There's a couple/three feet at the very top not attached to the pole, but it appears to be stiff enough to stay upright, hopefully long enough for the tree to adapt to its new direction.

By Fall I'm hoping to take this all off.

:-)

8-22-2025;

Update.

After a couple of years, and various kinds of methods, trying to get this tree to stand somewhat straight up, I learned one thing, DO NOT give this tree all the water it wants!

Last year I cut back on watering and of course, we had just enough rains, that it grew robustly anyways but some improvement on the amount of growth

.

I put the stake and tie on at the start of last season, because it wanted to lean towards the street and my next-door neighbor's driveway (NE).

Toward the end of season last year, a windstorm 'unhooked' it from the tree and I just let it go thinking it would be fine now, and it was, other than the main trunk was still flexible enough it demonstrated a 'bow' from the bottom up to the branch forks at the top, of several inches.

This spring I reset the stake and nylon cable and plan to leave it on at least the rest of this season.

The trunk is 'getting good girth' (say that 3 times fast) and cut some branches to balance it out, so I expect finalization of this project this Fall of next spring.

if anything, with the cable, it leans a little west to allow for some 'spring back' once released.

/////

Funny beng.

Last year was the first time this tree 'finished out' at the branch tips, during a dry spell. Generally, like you said, the tips don't harden off completely and about an inch freeze off, only to start again at the next bud, without issues.

Say.....aw, never mind. ;-)