lisa_adams3049647

Posting for Jin. Nutrient deficiency’s?

Lisa Adams
last year

Hi all! Jin has been totally unable to start a new thread, at all. She’s had over a month of rain. Her roses are showing some really odd foliage. We’re hoping someone can advise as to what these roses need. Thanks! Lisa and Jin


Comments (34)

  • Lisa Adams

    This first one doesn’t look like a deficiency. I’m not sure what those dark splotches are, though.

    Jin’s DA rose with odd dark markings. · More Info

    The next two are both of Heritage, I believe.

    Nutritional deficiency? · More Info


    Nutritional deficiency? · More Info

    This one looks different from the others.

    What nutritional deficiency? Jin’s found rose. · More Info

    I’m not sure if there’s multiple problems going on with the rose below. I’ve never seen this sort of thing.

    Sophy’s rose. What in the world???? · More Info


    Sophy’s rose. Nutritional deficiency, due to 6 weeks of rain? · More Info
    It’s surely due to the incredible amount of rain they’re getting for weeks on end. It’s obvious the roses need something, because everything is being leached out of the soil. Neither one of us knows exactly WHAT they need, nor what product to give them. And yes, it’s STILL raining there!

    Jin IS able to reply to posts, so she should be able to answer any questions, and reply to comments. I just hope these pictures show up! Thanks, all. Lisa

  • Lisa Adams

    Oh, she’s in Florida, btw. Lisa:)

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    I wish Sherry could pitch in. Looks like nitrogen deficiency to me.

    Lisa Adams thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • portlandmysteryrose

    I'm seeing nitrogen deficiency, too.

    Sophy's Rose: Okay, this is a long shot from a Portlander to Floridian. Ascochyta fabae? That ringed spot looks something like it. I've only seen this disease on beans but think that maybe citrus can contract it in FL? Carol

    Lisa Adams thanked portlandmysteryrose
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Nitrogen deficiency, but the second and third pictures look like they could use some ironrite.

    Lisa Adams thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Lisa Adams thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • malcolm_manners

    Second, third, and fifth photos are iron deficiency. Photo 4 is magnesium deficiency OR boron toxicity. Since the plant is potted, and considering the rain, my suspicion is that it is not due to a lack of iron, rather, to a waterlogged root system that has become compromised in its ability to take up iron. Mg deficiency is a bit surprising on a stem that young, so my suspicion there is boron toxicity, which would indicate a too-low pH. Or that could also be a result of poorly drained soil. Some concepts of recognizing deficiencies:

    Nitrogen: yellowing of leaves. Always the oldest leaves first, then moving UP the stem over time, as it becomes more severe. Veins are exactly the same shade of green as the leaf tissue in between.

    Iron: Yellowing of leaves, but with greener veins (just the vein itself; never with a border area of green to the sides of it). Always on youngest leaves first.

    Manganese: Just like iron, but the greener veins also have a border of green, so the green stripe is wider than the vein itself. Always on youngest growth first.

    Zinc: Just like manganese, but the leaves are much smaller than normal. Always on youngest growth first.

    Magnesium: Always oldest leaves. An inverted "V" of green at the base of the leaf. Then moving out on the leaf, may look rather like manganese (see photo 4 above).

    Boron toxicity (too much B): Looks exactly like magnesium deficiency. Only occurs in very acidic soil conditions (Mg def. is more common on too-high pH soils).

    Sulfur: Not commonly seen on roses, but possible. Looks exactly like nitrogen (general yellowing of the leaf with no varying color on the veins), but always starts on the youngest leaves first, and moves down, as it becomes more severe

    Lisa Adams thanked malcolm_manners
  • Lisa Adams

    Thank you very much everyone! Dr Manners, this is incredibly helpful! I’m bookmarking it myself, even though deluges of rain are an unlikely event for me, in S CA. It’s still possible that I could see something like this, especially in my potted roses. I’m sure many others will benefit from this detailed information, as well.

    I’m surprised Jin hasn’t commented on here. She may just not have had time to check this before leaving for work. My suggestion to her, was that she probably needed some quick acting balanced fertilizer, but I had no idea what “quick acting fertilizer” really was. I just don’t have any experience with this sort of thing. I’m sure she’s going to want to know exactly WHAT products to use to set things right again. Thank you all so much! I’m sure Jin thanks you, as well. Hopefully her Houzz situation hasn’t gone from bad to worse, in that she’s not able to post comments. I imagine she will see this this afternoon. Lisa

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Lisa, I saw your message this morning but I did not respond being at work. I just got home. Thank you so much for posting vthis thread for me. I knew what I was doing but as time passes I was second guessing myself.

    It rain here so much in May, daily sometimes through out the night till next day. This week it still rains but not like May. I feel my everything I did got washed out. I saw the symptoms and I used Ironite then I thought of nitrogen defiency which I used loads n loads of manure and coffee grounds. But in the end I knew I need to used Rose Tone ferterlizer for more help.

    I read an old thread:-

    Nutritional deficiency on rose leaves in West Coast Florida by Leigh Wilson Versaggi Architecture June 18 2015.

    I feel as if I was in same category as him. No matter what I did is not working. I end up calling Lisa. Told her all about it with pics.

    Should I put extra Ironite or liquid. The last two pics just threw me off completely. To me I could not tell btw phosphorus, potassium or zinc deficiency.

    After, I read the old thread on boron toxicity, I was very lost. I was so ready to email Dr. Manners, today Bec now I am hitting terrible twos with headache and lost.

    So, what should I used as ferterlizer? My pots has about 20 holes for drainage each. I just wanted to make sure it drains well. After googling so much I even though of root- rot.

    All my in ground roses are doing real well only my potted roses is going whacked.

    My pH is 6.8 and I mix with native soil, garden soil and manure( 1/3 of all) except for pots was just garden soil organic .

    Lisa thank you for the thread and everyone ' s help. I need to know what to put and how much. Yup, I am still lost and I just heard Thunder. Yikes, more rain.

    Vap, Carol, Shiela , Lisa and Dr Manners. Thank you for replying. Yes, I am book marking this also. What brand what type and how much roughly to put or shall I wait for rain to stop if it ever will. Magnesium will be add when I get to store tommorow.

    Jin

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Lisa , I wish I can hug you for what you did. You are so sweet and very special to me as my kids are getting so fond of you. Both say hello and sending their love...lol

    Xoxo,

    Thanks again.

    Jin


  • maryc_gwSoCA/USDA10

    Jin, Lisa, Malcom -

    I thank all three of you. This is the best presentation I've ever seen of this info and it is very much appreciated.

    Mc


  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    You are welcome Maryc, I am sure everyone is having issues with roses. We have too much rain and Californians have so little. I wish I can send some there. Too much rain and we just started hurricanes seasons. I wonder how much rain we got in May alone ?

    It is pouring outside like cats and dogs.

    Jin


  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Dr. Malcolm Manners your explanation of the deficiencies is so detail and easy to understand.

    How long does the chemicals take effect ? Also how do you protect your roses from deficiency . In another words I just curious how and what steps you are taking before, during and after the long daily, rainy season. So that I can learn how to do this properly.

    Also, do I need to put Epsom salt and Ironite in planting holes Bec I never did ? Just out of curiosity .

    Thank you so much :)

    Jin

  • KarenPA_6b

    Instead of treating each deficiency, perhaps it is healthier to just replace the potting soil medium for these potted roses with new good potting soil. That way the roses will have a balanced soil to start over again. I don't know if you get Espoma products where you are but I have good results with their brand of potting soil.

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Check this out Bec this gives idea looking at first glance

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.weather.gov/media/tbw/topnews/May_Spring2018_final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjMh7vnmdLbAhXJk1kKHeu1B-wQFjAQegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1JCCSMgN1r45P7_8oNEtez

    It is unbelievable. And a screen shot and a cutting from news.

    This is from news about a nursery south of me. Looking at those pots I think I will get bald real quick.

    Sinkholes are open in a lot of places in May. This is just a regular rain now we hit a hurricane season. I know a lot of Rosarians here knows what to do but I am facing this and not expecting the expect. My first year of roses and I am trying not to be a total failure but I love my roses so much to succeed.

    I wonder how is Cedemas, Jasmin, Pinkrose, SoFl doing ?

    Jin

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Karen, we do and I pretty sure we do. Yup, think I am going to redo the pots since I only have 4 done. I still got to pot more so I have to buy more soil next week and also to treat my 4 roses.

    Thank you :)

    Jin

  • boncrow66

    How often do you fertilize the roses in your pots? I fertilize everything That I grow in pots, including roses approximately every two weeks with Miracle Grow and it gives them all they need. If we have a deluge of rain I do a weaker solution once a week. This is just my option but I would think that with all the rain it’s not necessarily your soil in the pots that is the issue it’s just a matter of feeding them more often because they are getting depleted of nutrients faster with all the rain washing them out. I don’t use the Miracle Grow on my roses planted in the ground but I do use Rosetone and will use fish fertilizer once a month and this seems to help when we have a large amount of rain. Good luck and I’m sure your roses are going to be fine.

  • cedemas

    I feed every 3 weeks as per Pam Greenwald's recs. A handful of chicken manure, a handful of rose tone, and some fish emulsion mixed with rose food with more for a big bush and less for a little bush. I am not 100% organic. I also spray with iron.

    Since we've been getting so much rain, I've been using a little extra. My Belinda's Dream is the only one who is suffering now. Her leaves are good color but when she blooms she drops leaves. It's either a lot of leaves and no flowers, or a lot of flowers with few leaves. I can't seem to find a happy medium with her. I had no idea she would be so difficult. She was supposed to be an easy rose for FL. I will say that the Belinda's Dream plants at the nursery looked awful after a few weeks. So it isn't just me. I don't know what Nelson's is doing to them but I can't duplicate it.

  • boncrow66

    Jin you also could do a slow release granulated fertilizer in your pots with all the rain you’re experiencing. I really don’t know if I’m telling you the right thing but I do know your potted roses could use some food so to speak. After Hurricane Harvey dropped 50 inches of rain on me and my roses in the ground sat in standing water for over a week I added several bags of composted cow manure and rose tone to my soil and that seemed to help them out and they look great now.

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)

    I have been having the same issues with rain here. I've learned that the potting soil needs to be really aerated so I mix half lowes jungle growth with half miracle grow potting soil (not garden soil) I add more perlite to this mix especially in the bottom of large pots. Make sure the pots drain really well with lots of large holes. They have to get watered daily this way most of the year but when the storms and heavy rains come it pays off. You can still add a little compost to your mix but not too much. When roots are waterlogged they are literally drowning and cannot take up nutrients then we see deficiencies.

    You will need to repot every few years because the soil compacts/ breaks down over time which prevents air to the roots especially when waterlogged. I have slowly been moving stuff into the ground because its easier.

    During H. Irma my yard looked like the photos of that nursery with pots and roses submerged in water. Most of our property drains well but not all of it. Living near a river doesn't help either lol.

    Home Depo sells large bags of perlite which is much cheaper in the long run than buying the small bags.

    I also want to add, different climates may require different potting soil mixes. What works in a very wet climate might be death in a hot dry desert. In a desert climate you might be able to get away with a potting soil that is denser or have water crystal in it etc. If we do that here and get extended rain then our plants would drown. I've lived and gardened in many different climates. I've always had a lot of potted plants so have learned to adapt accordingly.

    ~Sjn

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Okay, I get it now. I just pot my plants two weeks ago. No, I did not put any ferterlizer at all. I got my DA roses like in March and just 2 weeks ago I pot them. I got Rose tone and put some with Ironite. No, I did not know iabout feeding them every 3 weeks. Which will make this my 3 rd week so I better feed them.

    No, this is my first pot of roses. I just walk threw my backyard with any rain to check the leaves and all. Think, I am ferterlizer all the roses again. Yes, I did have fish emulsion and I have not used it but I will tomorrow morning. I also have perlite. I think I better redo my pots again or mix it with potting mix. I was told to stay away from Miracle growth because of the fertilizer inside which says 6 months or 9 months or 12 months. So, got Kellogg's brand garden soil. I did see jungle soil and what Karen said . I was told jungle and Kellogg's were basically the same thing by HD . I try to buy jungle in Lowe's but they were sold out in spring since everyone was doing gardens . I followed Dept of agriculture just to do native soil mix with manure but I decided to used organic on top of it. I don't know how it went hay wired but I am sure I can fix it over my weekend.

    I was afraid to used fish ferterlizer Bec of the rain. I have not read the instructions but you have to mix it with water n water is last thing I want to give roses.

    I also bought liquid ferterlizer. By Miracle Gro .

    But now I know more thank you .to everyone for helping me.

    Jin

  • boncrow66

    I think you will be pleased with the results you see from feeding your potted roses, it really does make a difference.

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    @ Boncrow66,

    Yeah, the pots were temporary and I did not research but I do know they handle differently. That will buy me more time to do my grounds. The garden soil was left over from my raised bed. I used it since it was sitting there. I also know Rosetone is time release but not sure it was washed away or still there which I am doubting working slowly. I just was too afraid to buy liquids or non organic Bec knowing me inexperienced I am and mostly will burn the roots. So, I am second guessing myself a lot. I am rereading all and reading instructions from ARE and googling on DA website again.

    Thank you so much.

    Jin

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    Jin, with all your reading I'm sure you've read that you can feed liquid fertilizers weakly weekly! That is what I've done with all my tropical plants and it's worked great so I've done that with my roses and so far so good. It's best to apply the liquid fertilizer when your roses are wet actually. That helps avoid root burn. Kellogg's makes many potting mixes. One I got last year in place of Eco scraps was a disaster. I think it was basically wood. I always add a lot of perlite to my mix. If you have a lot of pots I'd be happy to p.m. you with my mix, but it probably isn't worth it for just a few. I changed my mix a bit this year and everything is doing fantastically even with tons of rain.

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    I totally forgot I also used miracle gro in -ground used for my raised rose beds and I just saw a bag untouched in the shed. But I did not used any miracle grow for the pots. I used straight Kellogg's n manure half n half thinking DA loves manure way too much ( I put put more of that like 60-40)

    2 tablespoon to gallon of water of fish emulsion. And 1 tablespoon of bath salts to same 1 gallon of water. I read the manufacturer sites and watch videos

    I have most stuff except bath salts which I will be picking up later after work and tonight I am going to feed my roses. It did not rain last night but heard Thunder all night. Thank goodness.

    Redoing my pots on Sunday. Thanks :)

    Jin




  • lyannastarknola

    Can I piggyback here and ask what's going on in the first picture?

    Jin/Lisa, Thanks for the question which led to such informative answers! Saved!

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    I would not know but I thought it was Black spot but it is not acting like one.

    Jin

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    The first pic is so weird. The black spots are gone. The leaves are back to normal. No black spots and I only did fish emulsion n bath salts.



    The sun is so bright so I took a few pics. I never spray at all. So whatever that was is gone and I am so relieved. Thank you everyone for helping me. This week no rain and if it did was only slight showers.

    Sunshine State ;)

    Jin

  • lyannastarknola

    SAME! They just went right back to normal after a week or two. This happened on my currently spotless Zephy, Angel's Camp Tea, and Lamarque, totally different roses in totally different spots. Whatever, no harm no foul I guess, but I was panicked at first and now I'm just curious.

  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Me too. I thought it was BS . Then no yellow around it. It stay just like that. Then it is gone. I Google and found nothing. Yes, I panick too thinking it was worst kind like Downy or something. It vanished just like that.

    Jin

  • Perma n’ Posies/9A FL

    I had the same thing happen to one of my roses when I moved it. I also googled and the best explanation I could find matching the dark splotches was “environmental stress.” Mine has also cleared up now. Maybe stressed by a sudden and massive increase in water?

    Maybe someone else (with more rose years than myself) has seen this before, and could confirm for us?

  • Grace Yu
    Everyone with the black spots! I am having the same issue with my potted Olivia Rose Austin! I ended up cutting some foliage off earlier because I thought it was black spot, but it looked nothing like the pictures online- only like the picture posted here. What should I do? How did you guys get rid of it?
  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)

    Grace, this is not BS. I have BS on my medallion and Queen Elizabeth. First it is black spots but they are always accompanied by a yellow coloring around it. Then it will turn yellow and fall off.

    This stays like that. Still same leaves and then gone.

    I was very puzzle by this and this is what I think. I could be wrong but could be right. Due to heavy downpours of rain. Maybe it got bruise. And the bruise was repaired by the rose immunity...I don't know.

    I agreed with Perma n Posies, environment stress and it repaired itself.

    I can't find marks like that on Google or anything.

    I try to post a pic but Houzz won't let me. I found 2 leaves but it looks really healthy but deep inside is markings. You can't tell Bec the leave also became dark green.

    Jin

    I just saw that one leave in first pic . It is very dark green colour. It is still there. The pic that I just posted 5 hours ago.

  • Grace Yu
    Plumeria,

    I see! That’s what I was thinking, but I wanted to just make sure. Now I regret picking out those leaves, but so thankful my doubts left some on. It’s gonna rain heavily again tonight and the following week... geez. Hope my poor plants recover from the environmental shock. Perhaps they were suddenly taken aback by the sudden change in weather, the crazy midge/aphid problems and etc etc. Thank you! I’m gonna do my best to aerate the soil and try to keep them on the dry side. Think I’m gonna give them some extra Epsom salts, too!
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