I know Montreal used to be Zone 4 so perhaps you could check on the Montreal botanical Garden website to see which roses have done well for them. They have a list but I'll see if I can find.

Thanks Krista! Mortimer is one I was thinking of. I had L.D. Braithwaite that is zone 4 and I can't remember it ever being killed totally to the ground.

vaporvac - I wonder if there is a zone 4 in UK? Would make you think they would test a few in Canada or how can they say they are hardy to zone 4? I'm off to see about Montreal...

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/montreal-botanical-garden-trial-results-dsvw-vd~1722935?n=13[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/montreal-botanical-garden-trial-results-dsvw-vd~1722935?n=13)

The above is a link to an old post that list the winners in the Montreal Botanical Garden trial results. This was awhile ago so I'm sure there are a lot more roses. This post also has other excellent information and links to party roses so be sure to read the whole thing . Unfortunately, MB G does not list all of the Roses that they grow. In fact, it doesn't list any except by very general name such as Canadian explorers, but it does say they grow Austin's. There's a list of the Canadian explorers under a heading about the woman who bred many of them. I would try contacting them directly and perhaps encouraging them to post this information on their website! Along with the results of the trial!

I have no experience with this directly but have seen Claire Winchester Cathedral, and Abe Darby be grown in zone 5 successfully. I think there is a rose book on growing roses in Northern climates that might have a list and Peter Schneider book right rose right place lists many more as he is in zone 5 . He States which are tip Hardy in that Zone. In zone 6 I grow Darcy Bussell, Tess, munstead wood, Falstaff,Molineux and a no ID possibly Anne Boleyn / eglantine. These are all tip Hardy for me with no die back at all at minus 7 Fahrenheit and much freeze thaw in the spring, but that probably doesn't help you at all. Lol! :-)!

I have two sides of my house that are virtual zone 4 areas, since they are in shaded north and east sides of my house. Both have bulbs that bloom a good 2 weeks later than typical zone 5 areas, and roses that are hardy to zone 5 don't typically last there.
Austins that I've been successful with in these virtual zone 4 areas include: Carding Mill, Teasing Georgia, Queen of Sweden, Lady of Shalott, Queen Nefertiti, Susan Williams-Ellis, Tamora (but she's very small there), Abraham Darby (mini sized though and finally died), and St. Cecelia. I expect that at least half of the Austins I grow successfully in zone 5 would be at least root hardy in zone 4 (I have about 60-70 Austins), but I can't vouch for that. The least hardy would be the dark reds like The Prince and Othello or some odd varieties like Radio Times that I can't overwinter even in my protected virtual zone 6.

Almost none of my Austins are cane hardy even if they're robustly root hardy, since they tend to get more canker over the winter with those pithy dead insides of canes that start out looking fine in spring only to fade. Even Austins that I've had for 8 years or more like The Generous Gardener or Molineux almost always are pruned to the ground. I'd say the most likely to have surviving cane among those above would be Teasing Georgia and Lady of Shalott, with St. Cecelia possible but she's too young yet to tell. I'd bet that Scepter'd Isle would have a good shot at being cane hardy in zone 4 since it is in a different zone 5 spot, but I can't attest to zone 4 myself.

Cynthia

Thanks vaporvac and nippstress! Our seasonal climate has changed so much here! Even tho they say we are in zone 6 all the way up to Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, that just isn't so! I used to have many OGR bourbons and hybrid perpetuals that performed beautifully. I even had Sombriel, a climbing tea rose that lived for 3-4 years! I have had DAs Abraham Darby, Heritage, Graham Thomas, Fair Bianca, Eglantyne, LD Braithwaite, Pat Austin and Evelyn (in a protected spot). Between the wildly fluctuating winters and heavy spot diseases most of my roses are gone and I keep replanting with the same result. I tried many ADR roses with mixed results - many of them were not cane hardy even tho listed to zone 5. I don't mind so much replacing with $6-$10 roses from Walmart or Home Depot but I cringe at buying more than one or two expensive roses at a time. All my research really doesn't come up with a concrete answer.

I couldn't find a list of roses grown at the Montreal Botanical Gardens, but it does seem they are in zone 5 because their recommendations for growing roses says:

Hybrid Teas - not hardy in zone 5

Grandifloras - not hardy in zone 5

Floribundas - not hardy in zone 5

They list modern shrubs, but only those bred in Canada - series Explorer, Parkland, etc. (I planted a lot of these this past spring from Home Depot/PanAmerican Nurseries in Canada. Not very double or highly fragrant but filled my bare spots and look good so far.)

If you read the link given above there's extensive information about the Roses grown there. In addition there are other links that take you to even more information from older posts . They are not all Austin's but some are Austin's. Having lived in Montreal I can attest it solidly in zone 5 and the surrounding area and Quebec Zone 4. It is very cold in Montreal much colder than the Albany Schenectady area where I also lived.

I apologize vaporvac! I went to the link and it said the results were gone but I didn't scroll down far enough. So I've had a monsterous hunt!

One thing I did find out was that they did (or started) a David Austin trial at Assiniboine Park in Winnipeg, Manitoba zone 3 in 2013. The DA roses planted were:

The Pilgrim

Tea Clipper

Sharif Asma

Falstaff

Mary Rose

Abraham Darby

Graham Thomas

Wisley

Darcy Bussell

They only made comments that they would have to do some terrific winter protection. And also said later that they bloomed nicely and everyone loved the flowers.

This was not done by David Austin company, but Michael from David Austin UK did comment that they probably would not survive zone 3. He said that the Mayflower would survive zone 4 without winter protection.

Heirloom Roses in Nova Scotia said if they came from DA in TX they would be on Dr. Huey and would not survive but if they came from Pickering they would be on multiflora and might survive. She also commented they grew a few DAs in Nova Scotia but they were heavily stressed by disease in the wet humid local climate.

There were never any further results of the trials even though people asked on the site for several years after.

Yes, I can see how you could do that. I might also recommend that when you go to that link there r links to definitely click on them because I spent hours yesterday down that rabbit hole. Thanks a lot! LOL not! I love going through Old Post there's so much great information. I've read a lot about these hearty roses because although I'm in zone 6 I always try to buy for zone 5 at least especially since I like climbers. I looked through my peter Schneider book later and see if anything else catches my eye. Sorry for the illiterate sounding post but I'm using voice recognition and I'm too lazy to correct it!

Also thanks for that interesting information on the Winnipeg trial. Montreal botanic garden does mention covering some of their hybrid teas that are normally for zone 6! With some sort of a foam blanket and they survive! It's hard to imagine. Not that I never want to go through that effort but it's pretty amazing. I wish they had more information on their care of their roses.

Interesting list of Austins from the Manitoba trials. I have grown all of those except for Wisley, and I'd have to disagree with Falstaff and Mary Rose being zone 5 hardy - both have died in typical zone 5 spots for me and Falstaff even in my zone 6 protected spot. Graham Thomas dies to the ground in my protected zone 6 and never gets much above knee high after about 5 years, so I expect he's not very hardy. The Pilgrim and Tea Clipper didn't much like my typical zone 5 spot but it might have been a fluke since I only tried them once. Sharifa Asma and Darcey Bussell have cheerfully returned for 5-6 years in less than ideal zone 5 spots so I can well believe their hardiness (Darcey being among the more hardy "purple" Austins).

Their descriptions of more reliable roses to try for zones 3-4 looks good and more likely to be assured survival in zone 4, particularly cane hardiness. There are exceptions here and there for hardiness rankings even for HTs, but in general the shrubs and once-bloomers are more likely to be hardy in zone 4 than HTs and floris.

Cynthia

I thought of you when I read these studies that have been ongoing at Cornell University since at least 2014. They are Zone 4. Perhaps you can call Nina Bassuk to find out the results . https://cuaes.cals.cornell.edu/farms/bluegrass-lane/

https://hort.cals.cornell.edu/people/nina-bassuk/

About the hardiness zones mentioned on the site of the Montreal Botanical Gardens, Canada has its own growing zones, and they do not overlap with the US zones. My Canadian zone is 6A, but in the US system it is 5. Montreal is 5A for Canada, so probably 4 in US terms.

Thanks 'vaporvac' for the link to the Cornell trials. Out of the four trials shown at the gardens there is a further link to everything but the Austin trials. This seems to happen to every one of the DA rose trials I have tried to follow. I kick myself for throwing away the list of roses at the Minnesota Arboretum. I can't remember if there were any Austins there then or not as I was into OGRs when I visited. I can't find the site online anymore but it might just be my search engine.

The page for the Minnesota Arboretum is no longer... It's not just your search engine. I don't know why they did away with that perhaps it was the age of the study? Who knows why people do these things. I realize there was no link to the results of the Rose trial which I'm assuming is finished since they were started at least in 2014. That's why I included that link with the phone number and email of the woman who actually ran the trials. I'm sure she wouldn't mind a phone call and could perhaps send some sort of PDF with the results if they have collated them yet.

There are two other sites you might want to check into although they are not trials per se. Well actually three if I include the Peter Schneider book right rose right place for zone 5. 1 is the now-closed nursery azalea shrub Farm in Upstate New York, I think Voorheesville. The owner has died unfortunately, but their website, Facebook page, blog Etc is still up for the time being. He talks about all the roses he grows and there are some Austin's in there. The second place is also a nursery in Ithaca called the Rosenmeister. I'll look up the links later. Anyway, he sells roses including some Austin's, but mainly he has a great website, and excellent blog, and also Facebook page where he talks about many of the Roses he grows including some David Austin's. Both of these two places are in zone 4. Off the top of my head he definitely mentions James Galway and Winchester Cathedral / Mary Rose. I think Darby. Go down the rabbit hole and I'm sure you'll find some excellent suggestions.

I've had zero die back on Tess, Falstaff and my no ID Anne Boleyn / Eglantine so I'm guessing they might be Hardy to some degree in zone 5. Please report back any results you may find.

Hopefully Rebecca sees this thread. She is in zone 4 and grows a lot of DAs.

Welcome to the Zone 4 rosarians club haha :D I just started this year, so we'll have to see what survives here in Billings (4b with lots of wind). My neighbor recommends burying the graft union 4 to 6". I did 6" but also put black sprinkler tubing down to where the roots would be before i sat the rose in the ground. That way, every time i feed my roses, In addition to a gallon of solution on the rose, I also inject 2 syringes full (total 30 mL) of whatever i'm feeding them down the tubing (you may have to stretch open the tube a bit, depending on the size tip of the syringe you're using), to make sure the nutrients get all the way down to the roots. I'm going to try to bury every bush (once the leaves fall off) in compost with a cardboard box with a top vent hole, even my climber (Lady in Red). If they get really tall, i guess i'll have to use a wardrobe box haha. We'll see what works! If you want to look at my rose spreadsheet I made that has the cultivars and zones, here's the link: https://airtable.com/tbl8OWVkMu8gJZ0Ao/viwI3gRfOiHd2cD5b?blocks=hide

I can't guarantee there aren't mistakes in it, but I tried to verify stuff via at least 2 sources before i'd put that rose in the YES column/group.

Honestly anything under z6 is a crapshoot. It will differ regionally as well, seems like it depends on snow cover and freeze thaw cycles. What does well in OH doesn’t necessarily do well here for me. And I see people in west coast Z5 that have much better success overwintering. I have very few that have surviving cane. Good luck, sometimes you just have to give it a try and see!

Dingo, years ago, when people grew many of the same roses, I realized that comparing how things grew for people that you 'gained' about half a zone between here and the midwest, and another half a zone between the midwest and the Rockies. So a rose will do about the same for me as it will for someone in 5a in Michigan, and 4b in Colorado.

BTW, Voorheesville is a solid 5b, and Ithaca is either 5b or 6a. One of the ways errors get into the hardiness ratings.

BTWW, my personal opinion on Austin hardiness ratings is that it involves a dartboard, and a lot of Guinness. I wouldn't mind being a participant.

Interesting..... under helpmefind.com many of the David Austins say they are zone 5b..... 9b..... but if you go to the David Austin site many of the ones on helpmefind actually are listed as zone 4..... why is there such a discrepancy ... is it because in the "real world" the roses don't live up to what they are promised.....

I live in Zone 10, but will be helping my mother-in-law.... I have a cutting of my Sharifa Asma one of my most fragrant DAs.... I was planning on putting it in my own garden, but according to what I am seeing it looks like it would go zone 4.... is that true.... and if it is....

is it better to have these on own root, or is it better to get them on multiflora rootstock.... is do own roots do better in cold areas... or better to have it graphed....

Thanks for any help.

Welcome to the Austin cold zone club JB and thanks for posting your list! It sounds like you have an elaborate system set up and some nice plans, and we'll look forward to hearing what works for you. I expect Montana is dry like we are here, so you don't run into the troubles with moisture retention for your winter protection systems like you can further east. If you have reliable snow cover, that's by far the best winter protection there is, though if there's as much wind as you describe it might not stick around long enough for protection.

We'll hope to see pictures next spring!
Cynthia

JB,

I tried to see the list but appears to be complicated sign in process and then granting access. Is there a way to cut and paste it here?

Same think here, mmmmm12.

Sharon I don't always go by the HMF zone rating, there are some that are listed for zone 6 or warmer that are growing in much colder areas. For example my next door neighbor is definitely zone 4 but she has a 3ft tall Mister Lincoln. And I have Sexy Rexy which bloomed most of the summer for me after surviving a winter which saw -45, yet HMF calls it a 6b. So I don't always think the zone rating is a hard and fast it-will-die-if-you-go-outside-it thing?

And I've had one Sally Holmes die in Z6 at the bottom of a hill. : ((

Vaporvac yes it is so sad to lose them when they are supposed to be well within the advertised zone :(

I'm a zone 5a, but I'm still confused if that's a Canadian or american zone 5. Anyways, as for hardiness in roses it seems to be a trial and error process for me. I have had much better luck with Austin's than other roses. Obviously the hardy Canadian roses do well for vigour, but they are not all as pretty as many other roses that are available. Almost all of my roses get pruned to the ground come spring due to winter dieback. But some Austin's spring back much quicker than others. I have also lost roses that were rated for zone 4, but others have survived no problem. Sceptre'd isle was a dud for me & died after 2 winters. Gentle Hermione died after it's first winter. Crown Princess - one is doing well & a second one died after last winter. Those are all recommended in zone 4. Graham Thomas survives here, but has never been particularly vigourous. Whereas, Teasing Georgia is a nice big bush at 6 x 3 feet by mid summer. Charlotte, Gertrude Jekyll, Crocus rose, Benjamin Britten, etc. are very vigorous here. I'm willing to try any of them that strike my fancy anyways.

I think you might have luck with eglantyne. Tip party here 2 - 7 Fahrenheit and Brews large in zone 5 where I have seen it.

Heritage, Belle Story, The Reeve, L. D. Braithwaite and Fighting Temeraire have all been hardy here.

I reside in rural Europe in Baltic Latvia. Zone 4b to zone 6. I lost so many David Austin roses brought with me from England even with covers. I grow mainly Alba and some Centifolia roses with out cover .Mortimer Sackler rose I grow in a large tub on metal oblisk and store in my workshop to keep away from north winds which dried out the rest and ice finished the job. Facing the sea winds whirl around house and 5 acres of English garden rooms set withing Yew and Thuja hedging. It will take time for hedging to meet the ten foot high mark at about 5 inch a year. Stiill it is realy as wind break and once protected a climate zone as winds here give the chill on plants .Stop that and grow in micro zone will help my design and wishes to have great gardens even in zone 4

My thanks to both Sheila and Diane Bakefield

Wish you lived nearer Sheila we could be friends and gardeners both

Here is a link to the "William Saunders Rose Society" website on which a rose hardiness survey was completed in 2003. The page is titled "Rose Cane Hardiness Reports" and has results from 10 rose gardens throughout the Northeast including Canadian Provinces and American States. There is data on minimum temperatures and windchill experienced over this particular winter and then estimated condition of the roses after the spring thaw. There are a lot of Austin roses in these gardens amongst others. I will say that I grew roses in zone 4b, my former Ontar4io garden is included in the results; but, after many winters in zone 4, some of my Austin variety ratings would go up a bit. St. Cecelia being a case in point. St. Cecelia is in my view one of the best Austin roses for winter hardiness. There are many others. Trial and error is almost a necessity when trying to grow tender roses is zone 4. You are going to loose plants ocasionally in this climate.

Cheers, Rick

Hi Rick and thank you for your comment. Ill try St Cecilia but having known David Austin personally in my English home even he said Latvia was no place for his roses. Zone 4 in England is say Norfolk or parts of East Anglia it is not zone 4 here. We more on line with Norway our closest gardener across the Baltic. I buy old garden roses and they do just fine. On trial I have Hyde hall rose shrub of Austins just to give it a chance. Keep trying one at a time now as I love Davids roses but have to be ever watchful until my garden world is born .Hedges are the bane of my life and here rain is rare in hot summers and hedges need loads of water .I will sink a well this Spring to cope with all gardens here.Been hard work taking shower water and house supply across fields to new gardens I built to fence off the winds that race across from forest and lakes from the sea to front of my house. It will work well but how long will the hedges take is crucial in design and need.