In option period for house
I have lots of questions, but I will try to minimize it to the essential stuff. I have 4 more days to pull out.
During inspection I was waiting on the inspector to do his thing and happened to pull back a throw rug in the kitchen. Underneath it was a foot and a half square ripped hole in the floor. Evidently their dog must have clawed or eaten his way down to the foundation. It seems to be a roll of adhesive stuff much like wallpaper...but a floor.
Question 1: Isn't there supposed to be something between the foundation and the roll of sticky rolled out floor stuff? There wasn't even padding. If I dropped a hand weight, I'd chip the foundation.
I also noticed that the air filter where the AC sucks in the air, was filthy and so clogged that the AC evidently bent it in half in order to get air.
Question 2: Wouldn't it have done some non obvious damage to the AC considering they have 2 dogs and all that animal hair must have been getting sucked into the system for the last 6 years?
We also noticed there is no (I think he said) pressure valve out at the street and the water pressure is 80PSI, which is right at the boundry of acceptable. He said I could install some manner of tank myself to control pressure, but there is supposed to be something at the street.
Question 3: Is it going to be a hassle with the city to get to the bottom of that?
Comments (19)
- 8 years ago
My recommendation is to have all those issues addressed immediately if you really like the house. I am not sure about the floor without seeing the actual damage. I spent almost $1500 on inspections for 3 homes before I purchased my latest one, but IMO it was money well spent to keep me from buying junk. Have an independent HVAC contractor come out and evaluate the condition of the Air conditioning and heating unit. Not just the home inspector. Take a photo of the outside units data plate to determine it age. Same thing with the furnace. Post the photos here if you can't figure it our, many of us can. If it is old and still running R-22 now is the time to negotiate it's replacement as part of the sale. Same thing with the pressure valve. The sellers may not agree and you may have to be prepared walk away. Bottom line is you will already be out thousands just to acquire the home, you don't want to drop thousands more for repairs that could have been addressed beforehand.
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The PV may be inside the house. You'd need to look for it where the water comes in, near the main cut off.
As to the filter, It depends on how old is it. If 20+, it probably needs or will need replacing very soon. If less, then get an HVAC guy to come in and service including cleaning the coils. (add the cost of this to closing, like $150-$250)
fleshbits
Original Author8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoYes, first house. Life savings. Much stress.
I had a mold guy come out today. He also showed me visible mold on all the HVAC vents and in we think around the duct work seal on the outside of it meeting the unit. Waiting on lab results for severity.
HVAC is 2014.
Given that the AC will blow mold throughout the house and mold is a real concern here in Texas, I'm not sure if I should pull out based on that. I am going to try to get an estimate from a HVAC guy on what it would cost to replace all the duct work in the worse case. I read that this could be from all the debris getting sucked into the coils and pans from the negligence with the filter.
I am also getting estimate on the other stuff.
Here are some pictures I took today, if anyone is interested: https://ibb.co/album/i2osaa
Here is a cutnpaste from an email I sent off for estimates along with thier own pictures. Given this list, my naive opinion is it is going to cost me ~10k best case and 30k worst case (if mold is severe) to repair all this stuff. I dunno if this is all typical when buying a house.
Require Immediate Repair / Essential:
- Kitchen Floor - The entire kitchen floor needs to be replaced. I'd like to get an estimate based on using the same material, as well as an estimate on what it would cost to use a quality tile with vapor barrier (if needed), etc.
- Air Conditioning Duct work and vents needs to be completely cleaned out due to negligence with air filters/animal hair and visible mold on vents. We are not sure if it also contains mold inside the duct work and are waiting on mold reports. The cleaning is given, but we'd also like to know how much it costs to replace all the duct work if mold comes back with more than moderate results. Est 1700 sqft house.
- There is no water pressure regulator and the water is 80PSI. We need one installed.
- Roof first row shingles were not tarred down. Metal around edges not aligned and sealed up properly. Roof is recent, but was done without quality in mind.
- Garage Door Opener is completely missing. Door not connected.
- Foundation rods exposed and need to be sealed to guard vs rust damage.
- Master bathroom shower leaks through rubber seals at bottom of glass panes, into the Jacuzzi tub
Requires repair in short term:
- Guest bathroom tub needs to be caulked and sealed
- Master bathroom tub needs to be caulked and sealed.
- Garage Door rubber seal has been eaten and needs to be replaced
- Garage Door needs to be cut away from ground, so as to prevent rot, and rotten bottoms needs to be cut away/replaced
- Front Door Seals and wood at floor under door need to be replaced
- Dry Wall in Dining Room is cracking on corners. Was told this is a metal corner and is common, but needs to be redone.
- A few very small spots in the mortar need to be filled in, pointing, in the brick veneer. Probably less than 2sq ft total.
- Windows need to be sealed on inside and outside of the house. Some very apparent gaps outside between window and siding which will allow moisture in.
Requires repair in the future:
- Water Damage in Guest bathroom where walls meet floor and corners of cabinets and tub.
- Garage Ceiling Tape is falling down. Some areas sagged.
- All Windows are aluminum single pane, which was not expected for a house of this year. Would like estimate on replacing all windows with double pane.
- Kitchen Faucet has to be replaced due to missing button.
- 8 years ago
They build homes so tight now a days that fresh air can not get in and mold can occur as a result of that. There are other factors that come into play as well, but that is a big one. Insurance companies have pretty much excluded covering mold damage from standard home owners policies as well so be very cautious moving forward. Gaps in windows, cracks in dry wall "could" be indicators of foundation issues. This is where a good inspector would be helpful. If the foundation needs repair get it done before you purchase the property, other wise run...don't walk, run away from this deal. Foundation problems. especially on a slab foundation are expensive.
The kitchen floor appears to be the older vinyl linoleum product. Not a big deal. You can rip that stuff up and lay down whatever flooring product you like assuming there is no actual damage to the concrete foundation. I would not go back with that product though. It's cheap and ugly (to me) and products such as ceramic tile are much more affordable today than they used to be. The duct work can be kind of pricey depending on access. You can try and use this as a negotiating tactic to get the purchase price down and use those savings to put it back into the property.
Buying a property can be emotional, because you want it. I get it, but just based on the potential foundation issues, I would pass. Chalk the inspection fee and the option cash up to the cost of doing business and keep looking. I am a lot more handy than most people so some things don't phase me, but people who have to hire contractors to fix problems need to be cautious when making an expensive purchase such as this. You want to move in and enjoy your new home not pulling your hair out because you need to fix this and that and it's going to cost X number of dollars and given the cost of property you don't want that initial headache along with your new mortgage payment. I own 3 properties, I have a little experience in this area.
- 8 years ago
There are a number of really pretty minor things that are to be expected when you buy a pre-owned property.
I just don't see (in the pix) the foundation/ rebar problem. The fascia & trim do need some attention but I doubt there is much/ if any rot at this point. (Looks like rough cedar; cedar is naturally rot resistant.).
The kitchen faucet needs a new button; if it's a quality name-brand faucet, you can repair it.
And so on...
The biggest reason that I would take a pass on this house is the windows.
Second biggest reason is the kitchen. Cheap, ugly cabinets.
None of the other stuff really bothers me, given that the price of the house is discounted to reflect the needed repairs & upkeep.
As a very nervous first time home buyer, presumably w/o DIY experience, probably better for you to take a pass on this one.
- 8 years ago
The floor has to be repaired or replaced. Not clear what floor material is involved. Not certain of the age of home. I will assume kitchen area is over a crawlspace. Usually this means insulation and subflooring. Then a paper barrier. Depending on floor material, you might have plywood to have floor level to other rooms in your home. It's my opinion that the current homeowner should at least repair this area since the rug was used to cover up this problem. I would get a HVAC dealer of your choice to make an inspection of the HVAC system and ductwork. If the rest of the problems you mention are too daunting and costly for you to handle, then I would pass on this home. What about any ernest money put forward with your offer? Will it be refunded back to you? Unless you think this home is a good buy/value, I think you would be better off buying a newer pre owned home in much better condition and fully ready to move in. Keep in mind a homeowner can always do as much or little as possible to make home liveable. I have lived in my current home nearly 30 yrs and always have projects and upgrades to do. Just finished a complete kitchen remodel and a remodeled bathroom. One of the best things I did was replace all original exterior doors with energy efficient doors. Still more to do! Windows are relatively easy to do but can be pricey. Depends on what you are looking for.
IMO
- 8 years ago
Everything there is fixable. However, there is a lot of things to fix. House looks to not have had maintenance. Windows need replacing. Kitchen may not be best quality, but, looks to be in decent shape. The vinyl flooring will be a reasonable fix. Looks like a lot of time, caulking, and sanding, and possibly replacing trim, and underside of eves. Unless this house is far below asking prices in your area, I would not buy this house. You wont have time to enjoy a new home, you will be spending all your spare time, and cash, doing repairs. I would worry about the mold too, if you have little kids.
- 8 years ago
And, if you feel pressure about the short time you have for pulling out - you can always cancel the contract and get the results of tests, etc after you have cancelled. If the results make it seem like a house you still want to buy, you can always make a new offer on it.
- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
Since the house is in Texas, and you mentioned a possible mold problem, I would get a definite answer on the mold before you buy. Texas had major issues with black mold about 20 years ago, and insurance companies paid out quite a bit for mold remediation. Their solution was to rewrite all the policies so there are larger deductibles.
Texas policies that used to have a fixed deductible were changed to one where the deductible has to be a percentage of the insured house value. The ability to choose a fixed $500 or $1000 deductible went away, and it became 1-3% of the house value. Based on the current policy for my rental in Texas, this is still the case. If the house was insured for $400k, the deductible would be listed as 2% ($8,000). This means the homeowner ends up paying quite a bit of the bill if there is any type of claim.
With respect to the other problems you found, it does not appear to be anything other than expected wear and tear, and a lack of care in maintenance. It needs to be repaired, but the owners put it off. You may want to ask for allowances in the offer so that you can fix it yourself, which gives you control of how it is fixed.
Water pressure at 80 psi is okay, but its better if its more like 65 psi. Any plumber can install a Pressure Regulating Valve (PRV), which could be another allowance to ask for.
Bruce
fleshbits
Original Author8 years agoI pulled the plug. Thanks for helping guys. Not only you guys, but every friend, family member, inspector, and contractor I talked to advised me to keep looking. If I could change the oil in my car, maybe it would be worth exploring, but leave this one for an investor/flipper type and let them get it below what other houses are going for. This was priced on par with houses in that area that had no such problems.
I had to admit to myself that everything that prompted me to go into contract became void as information was gathered. I loved that kitchen, but the refridgerator is leaving, the sink is broken, a burner on the stove isn't working, the floor has holes in it... I loved that they had a new AC, but they ran it without a filter, and there are signs of mold in the vents and ductwork. I loved that they had a new roof, but it wasn't done with quality in mind. In the end, what am I left with for my money? Nothing really left that warrants my buying it over other properties.
I'll lost about 1200 in inspection and option money, but its not worth making myself sick over for the next year or 15 years.
Out of curioisty, @ ci_lantro ... I was drawn to the cabinets, myself, how are you identifying them as cheap, so I can learn what to look for?- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
Look at this as a good learning experience for the next house you consider. Your eyes will get to the point where you look past the good features and see and bad ones without having to pay for an inspection.
What is option money? This should have only cost you the price of the inspection plus any interest or gain you may have collected on your deposit money.
Are you using a real estate lawyer? There should be a clause in your contract specifically stating you get a full refund of your deposit if the inspection uncovers any problems. The definition of a failed inspection should also be defined.
- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
I think you did the right thing. Hopefully, you will find another house soon, that is in better condition, and shows that its owners loved it, and have taken care of it. I dont know how your contract info was written, but, usually, if the inspector finds several things, you can opt out of the contract, and usually get your deposit money back, within a certain period of time.
- 8 years ago
Out of curioisty, @ ci_lantro ... I was drawn to the cabinets, myself, how are you identifying them as cheap, so I can learn what to look for?
Big tip-off is the wide face frame stiles (the vertical piece) dividing the doors on double door cabinets. That divider stile limits your access to the cabinet. (Real PITA, I know, because I've had them!) Makes it tougher to get things into and out of the cabinet. I prefer butt doors where you can open both doors and don't have a face frame piece in your face, dividing the cabinet.
To omit that center stile, generally speaking, you need a beefier cabinet box. With the divider stile, the manufacturer can get away with using thinner materials for the box.
Cabinet doors are the most expensive part of a cabinet. The larger the pieces of the face frame, the smaller the cabinet door can be (partial overlay doors) resulting in cost savings for the manufacturer (and a less expensive cabinet for the customer.)
Check the shelving. (Really) cheap cabinets from that era are apt to have unpainted particle board shelving. Slightly better, painted particle board. Melamine covered particle board is another step up and so on.
Look for adjustable shelving, vs fixed shelves. Inspect the shelf pin holes (if that system is used) for blow outs (crumbling particle board or mdf).
Are the doors real wood or foil/ plastic covered mystery wood?
For the most part, partial overlay style cabinets (where large parts of the face frame are exposed) are dated. Of course, you expect that in an older home but it will be a factor when it comes to resale.
I believe that you did the right thing by backing off on this house. There are just a whole, whole lot of things wrong. A lot of owner neglect that is easy to see. (What all else did they neglect that isn't so obvious?) Mostly small stuff from looking at the photos (excluding the windows) since you were more than OK with the kitchen. Tight budget, novice DIY, probable lack of tools (albeit tools are an investment the cost adds up in a big hurry!) and the quite overwhelming amount of small problems facing a first time home-owner, and the fact that the house was not discounted makes it a pass, period.
Keep saving, keep looking, keep educating yourself. Watch YouTube videos. 'See Jane Drill' is great, especially for beginner a DIY. 'Essential Craftsman' and 'DFWCrown-The Finish Carpenter' are currently my two favorites.
And trust that the market will cool off; it always does. IOW's, take your time with the search.
Oh, one more thing--When you see things like those single pane aluminum windows original to the house, you can pretty safely assume that the builder was using bottom of the line/ as cheap as you can get materials and did not scrimp on just the windows.
- 8 years ago
What is option money? This should have only cost you the price of the inspection plus any interest or gain you may have collected on your deposit money.
Are you using a real estate lawyer? There should be a clause in your contract specifically stating you get a full refund of your deposit if the inspection uncovers any problems. The definition of a failed inspection should also be defined."
Option Fee is a small sum based on the purchase price of the home could be as little as $50.00 and go up. a $150,000.00 home would probably net an option fee of $150.00. The gives you a set number of days, usually 7 to simply say no thank you. You get your Earnest money back, but you lose the $150.00. This gives you time to get inspections and decide what you want to do. I love it, no risk of getting sued or losing your earnest money. Better to be out a few hundred than spend 100k plus badly. - 8 years ago
The option fee must be a practice used in Texas. I have never heard of it being used where I live in NJ, or in neighboring states. On your next contract ask if the fee can be removed.
- 8 years ago
option fee may not be a correct term...Ernest money is always used with an offer from a perspective buyer to show the seller that the offer is serious. If offer is not accepted, then no money changes hands. But if the offer is accepted, then the Ernest money is applied to the purchase assuming other stipulations are met like the buyer can obtain reasonable financing and repairs are made that are part of the contract.
IMO
- 8 years ago
I don't know if it is exclusive to Texas? Tigerdunes: It is designed to give the buyer a non obligated out if they should decide they don't want the property. Reason is irrelevant during the option period. Too much money, cold feet, too far away not far enough from the ex...whatever. If the buyer moves forward with the purchase the option fee is applied towards the down payment.
- 8 years ago
I would agree that if you had changed your mind about buying the house for no stated reason, then you should have to pay something. However during the inspection you found serious defects in the house which would cost a significant amount of money to rectify. For that reason you should be able to cancel the contract and not loose any money beyond the cost of the inspection.










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