I would say plant first. I know that I frequently move plants, sometimes more than once before things are the way I want them. So gravel would get in my way. But who told you to wait until spring? Fall is the perfect time to plant in California, don’t wait.

Other than plant selection. this is not much different from planting an alpine rock or gravel garden. So I agree plant first, finish off with the rock or gravel once you have it all situated to your satisfaction.

I also agree that there is no need to wait until spring.......unless you want to. Along most of the coastal west coast (west side of the mountains) you can continue to plant and garden all through winter. I have done full-on landscape installations in December and January!!

Something to think about.

Agree with mulch vs gravel, and it's free if you get it from local landscapers. It also amend and improve the soil as years pass while gravel can become a nuisance. I also do all my inground planting winters/early spring after the first rain, only time you can dig without breaking shovels in CA (and your back;)

Neighbor's parkway. Gravel looks natural with succulents, mulch looks more natural with shrubs and other natives (IMHO).

Succulents look natural in a field of rounded, washed, river gravel? I don't think so. That is cultural conditioning driven by sunset magazine pics. Decomposed granite sure but not river rock.

Alain, I totally know what you're talking about about digging into adobe! Where we lived for 33 years out in the country, we had about a 2 week window in spring and fall after the rain started to dig! Either it was too wet (gummy) or too dry (concrete) and if you missed that window.....forget it!

Where we are now we were happy to find that we have the soil that Luther Burbank came to Santa Rosa/Sonoma County to do his magic!

Nil13 I understand your gravel argument!

lgteacher- that is the look we're going for, but re-thinking the gravel part!

Thanks all! Nancy

Nancy, I will say that the key to coverting a lawn to succulents, besides the weed issues, is laying down the shredded wood mulch first and then planting into it. That way everything is planted up to the level of the mulch and is a lot less likely to rot. Most installers want to work the other way because it's easier with woody perennials. But even with woodies in CA, it's better to lay a thick layer of mulch down first and then plant into it so that you keep the crowns high.

I was the one who suggested not to plant succulents now. I don’t know about California natives I’m sure any time is an ok time since they’re native, but I do know succulents. Planting fresh new succulents right before it’s going to be cold and damp is a definite no go. According to plantmaps Santa Rosa on average could get their first frost in less than a month. Aeoniums and Dudleya would be ok to plant now. Dudleya are California native succulents:). Nancy living in Sonoma County you’re real close to native Dudleya, you could see them in natural habitat. Sonoma is a beautiful place;).

Alain, good point about waiting because the ground will be softer. I didn’t even think of that;).

Ughh I hate rock/ gravel. A past owner of my house apparently had river rock and volcanic rock as mulch but there was no sign of it until I started planting my garden and found a thick layer of it a foot below the surface. It's so difficult to plant anything once the shovel hits the layer of "mulch". I have to then excavate each rock out by hand little by little. It's a nightmare.

Another past owner made walking paths with river rock and also no cloth and now theres always all kinds of debrees lodged in the rock, dead leaves, twigs, small weeds,and grassses. I want to eventually remove it all but it's going to be such a pain.

The stones are blindingly reflective of the sun and they make it feel so much hotter outside because they heat up so much. I curse everytime I see a house with rock mulch.

FL Joe - are you sure you aren't hitting the coral and gravel landfill they are notorious for using? I ask because my neighbor's seawall fell down with Irma. When they were excavating to replace it they pulled out tons of coral gravel. And some pieces of coral were landscape size. I'm talking the ugly brown coral, not pretty stuff. They generally just put good topsoil and/or sand on the top foot or 18 inches.

Anyhoo - I think it really depends on what your taste is. My neighbor across the street has wood mulch, and the mulch is full of weeds. Next door has red lava rock over landscape cloth or plastic. He has a lot of weeds, but in all fairness he won't do anything about his lawn weeds either. This is the guy who planted dandelions!

And then there is our house. We have TONS of river rock around the house. It was here when we moved in 20 years ago. All around my house. Some areas are at least 8-10 inches deep. Too much to remove, so I guess I've just gotten used to it.

Here's an island out front - you can see the border of rocks with the "ball" shrubs.

It's always a work in progress. Plants come and plants go. Here is last year -

Here's one side - just after I whacked the shrubs and pulled out a bunch of old tropicals. This river rock is about a foot deep!

And the back has the same stuff.

I'm used to the look and my plants seems to do well enough. The rocks do indeed get hot and I have to put down towels when I am working out there in the summer. I have pulled out a bunch of that landscape plastic. It channels the water and can give me an unexpected area with puddles that will rot plants.

We don't have many weeds because we are out there every morning looking for weeds to pull. Old coots like us have the time. LOL

All the ideas a great. In the end, do what makes you happy!

Crenda, none of the rocks are gravel size. They're all a pretty uniform size. In some areas of the yard they're big chuncky white rocks. In other areas they're red porous volcanic rock. The rocks are the same kinds i see often used as rock mulch. They're not spread all throughout but only certain areas of the yard so my guess is that someone used the rocks as mulch in beds without using any fabric so they sunk into the ground over time. The yard has been redone a couple of times too so the rocks probably ended up being buried further. Thats my guess.

Ah, I see. And they sure will sink and make it difficult! I guess it would be easier to bury the stuff instead of removing it, but that just pushes the problem down the road. For you, unfortunately! Maybe they thought they were providing drainage. A lot of people use those white marble chips down here. Those are really blinding in the sun!

I have several of those large chunks of coral in the landscape. When I was trying to dig up all the roots from an overgrown schefflera (I now hate those plants! LOL), I kept finding slabs of rock. Looked like limestone. The markings were kind of pretty, so I saved them. Here's one (front right), just laying there.

Now I'm thinking that this was probably a slab to keep the coral from sinking. It broke and I'm finding some pieces of it. I'd better quit removing it or my landscape will sink!

Well good luck! Sorry you are having to deal with someone's mess in readying your garden.

This is only my second winter "in town". When we were out in the country (6 miles away) we actually had hard freezes that froze our pipes! Last year we didn't notice any frost at our home! Probably because we're several feet elevation than we were and we are in town and surrounded by paved areas that retain the heat overnight.

I'm pretty much convinced that wood mulch is the way to go. We didn't have much of a problem with weeds this spring (except for yellow oxalis which is EVERYWHERE downtown! (at least it's a pretty weed!)

We're pricing large rock to line the planters and a few decorative large rocks, and are waiting for some help from a former neighbor in design. Our local jail has a fabulous nursery with many Ca natives for fabulous prices, so we'll make an appointment with them to buy plants.

We're on our way! Nancy

Nancy, there is a place in Richmond called Annie’s Annuals that has tons of California natives. It’s a little bit of a drive for you, about an hour, but I think it’s worth the drive. They have succulents too and a huge section of Dudleya. Your real close to a place called Lone Pine Gardens. They’re specialty is succulents and bonsai. Lone Pine is in Sebastopol and supplies a lot of local nurseries with succulents. They’re open to the public Thursday-Saturday.

Kara, thanks for the info. I'll keep those places on my list, but I think between the jail sale (tons of succulents and Ca natives grown organically and cheap), the Ca native nursery we found and a couple other off the wall places we've found we'll be OK!

I've got all my acquired succulents set up in the greenhouse to hopefully multiply over the winter, and several salvias that were root bound re-potted and thriving.

Now we just have to design the beds and get it done! Nancy

This is probably more info than you want, but Joe did a really nice job replacing his lawn in the SD area. A few other folks have chimed in with their experiences, too. Sorry, if you have already looked at this. Enjoy!

Joe's Lawn Conversion

Thanks! Went through and perused the pictures! A lot of what I want to do!