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Strange Exercise (for you/for me)

dbarron
November 26, 2018

Ok, here's the background: Plant World Seeds (England) sent out a 20% off code. Naturally that caused me to go make a wishlist. I've done my research and I have some hope of growing these plants (none of which I've ever grown from seed, and mostly not at all, which the exception of the snapdragaons). I'd like to hear any thoughts you have on pros/cons of what I have left in cart. I have oh lets say 5 days to gather feedback. Thank you if you choose to share insights.

My zone is z7a, humid subtropical, hot dryish summer, wet spring, any who knows for the rest.

Edible: American land cress ( Barbarea verna )

Ornamental:

Semi-perennial snapdragons (hybrid) https://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/6115

Asparagus myriocladus

asparagus acutifolius

Impatiens balfourii (usually fail with most of the cool weather impatiens..but worth a try)

Lathyrus vernus

Lynchis chalcedonica 'Pinkie'

Paeonia vetchii (I know years...to flower)

primula kisoana

prunella grandiflora 'pagoda' (hey it grows as a weed, but maybe with mixed colors...it might grow in a bed)

romneya coulteri (I have doubts about this one due to climate)

silene dioica

impatiens capensis 'autumn bees' (this can't be capensis, because capensis is OUR native, not something from himalayas as ad describes) https://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/2504

Comments (89)
  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Skip, I just realised I had 12 bins still in the garage that I didn't put outside. Wow, they are piling up. I'm planting 12 of each species with the hope enough of them will germinate and survive so I at least end up with a few plants of each. If I were growing the numbers of each species you are I'd be in a straightjacket in some institution, but your plan requires large numbers so you're not crazy, not yet lol. It will be interesting seeing how each species does. I should take notes in case I write a book or something lol. I'm thinking what to do with the extra plants I won't have room for. Could donate to the prairie, give away, put an add on craigslist. My biggest obstical will be prepping the sites. I'm going to try and save enough money in the next few months so I can pay to have it backhoed. It will mean some sacrifices but it's well worth it I think. Getting ready to drill again. I think some here think I'm a plant snob because I'm growing so many species, but it's not like that at all. I'm doing it for the wildlife.

  • dbarron

    I wish you luck Jay, gonna be a lot of work :)

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    You're rubbing it in. It is what it is and I hope it turns out to be satisifying and entertaining for everyone here whether it ends in sucess or catastrophe. Thanks for the good wishes friend, and good fortune with your seeding efforts. Hoping all your bugs are kept at bay. You've parked in winter sowing and missed a week of curfews. 2 days in the brig! Report back immediately lol.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Your concern for me means a lot Barron. I see where you are coming from. More tears over you yet again. Things are ok now, fingers crossed. The reason for wanting to grow them all? They are all the ones I've been dying to get to know for as long as I can remember.

  • dbarron

    Oh I understand the motivation. I share it. I want to grow everything (but I know I can't).

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Yes, and I'm starting to think that you know me better than I know myself which is kind of alarming. Things will probably not turn out as beautiful as I imagine, but it will be prettier. I will make sure all the plants that are left over will find good homes and won't perish. I'm giving away all my leftover seeds on the seed exchange, some member in Texas will be very happy. I can deal with the huge number of plants, it's the prep I'll need help with. Just thinking about it though you're right, I think I overdid it. The milkweeds alone would have been a big enough project. I should have just focused on those and started on the other natives in 2020. They will still be my priority so I hope I will have time to tend to the other natives enough. I don't work you know I get disability so I do have all day to putz around. The seeds are almost all sown so I'll have a few months to rest up and plan my next move.

  • dbarron

    Hee, the work begins after they sprout. You must keep the pest from them, keep the excess water from them, keep them damp, keep them warm, sunny, and happy.

    Wow, sounds almost like you are having a baby?

  • Skip1909

    Jay I dont see anything wrong with what youre doing if you have a place to put all the plants and a plan to take care of them all.

    Im aiming to reach the point dbarron is at where I know I can only find room or for a few things.

    We're not crazy either, the state had a program called "lawn alternatives" last year promoting planting woodlands, meadows and ground covers.

  • dbarron

    My local community is crazy, they just passed an ordinance that nothing within 10 foot of the street should be higher than 18 inches. I am hoping it will not be enforced :( I can see all kinds of hedges and even trees that would need to be eliminated in the community.

    I got three writeups this year because Johnson grass (weedy and unsanitary (their words)..I mean I don't like it either) kept growing through my fence from my neighbors side, and due to plantings there, all I can do is pull stalks (no herbicide,no cultivation). Makes me want to move outside city limits, but I love utilities like internet that aren't very available in the hinterlands (I've lived in country before).

    Maybe we don't all want our yards to look like a golf course (mowed turf).

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Either houzz is really getting screwed up or I need a new phone. Barron I just composed a long message to you and it was deleted. I'll rewrite it soon. It was interesting. Thanks for the encouragement Skip. I'm too far in the middle of the stream to switch horses anyways. I need a friggin golf course lol ! Like I said, I'll only be planting 1 or 2 of each, except for plants I want more of like , well there is quite a few I want more of, too long to write out lol. But those are all 'fillers' . Barron, I hope you're sitting down. 83 bins.OMG! I should just get a license and open my own native nursery. Maybe the wild ones will let me sell some at their sale since I am one you know. And I am seriously thinking about volunteering at Midewin Prairie for both selfish and unselfish reasons. The selfish part being my rare plant search.

  • dbarron

    I would say using forums from a phone...is probably the hardest thing ever. Sit down at your PC and compose..it'll save time in the long run.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I think I'm to figitty to stay seated in one place. I was going to haul the laptop out to delete a stock photo I put on a thread. Haven't been sued for doing it yet, but zenman has this thing about stock photos. Oh, and I don't have anything worth suing me for. But, yeah, this curser thing is totally haywire, my letters won't stick to the comments, I just posted a thread and when I try to edit it, it says page not found, other strange anomolies, but just hoping that everyone will still be able to communicate. There is all those cool fonts I can use on the laptop. Knowing you want to grow everything too makes me feel better, but I wish you were overdoing it too. You have a harder time because of all your alien slugs and bugs. My seedlings don't suffer major predation.

  • dbarron

    Well mine hadn't till last year...and that kinda dampened my enthusiasm (or crushed it mostly). Here's hoping this year is better and that I get my seeds long enough ahead of spring (though I think this will be a long winter), one of the bad things about ordering from GB.

    Actually about five years ago, I lost almost all of those allium cernuum seedlings because a grasshopper got in the container and mowed them all down. But at least I knew they grew, the slugs mostly cleaned house before I saw sprouts. I did see cyclamen sprouted, then no more ;(

  • texasranger2

    Maybe its not about suing. I have 'a thing' about stock photos too but I really get irritated with memes. Until very recently we never used to see them on the GW garden sites. I hope this is not a new trend but to each his own I guess.

    Just saying.

    I don't comment that much but I always enjoy seeing pictures people share of their own gardens. Showing personal gardens has been the tradition on the garden forums as opposed to pulling up general online photos and silly memes. I am familiar with and recognize the gardens of several people who post here and find it interesting to see whats going on. Even though you don't know the person you kind of get a feeling for them by seeing their gardens and its nice to have a place like this to share them. Sometimes I'm downright intimidated.

    barron, my biggest garden pest is wandering cats. They do a lot of damage to my grasses by using them as beds. I've cut back several just because they looked so smashed, chewed up and awful. It wouldn't be so bad if they used the same clump over and over but they do it to several and its disheartening to walk out and see the torn up grasses just when they are coming into their glory. I'm planning to go back to inserting cholla cuttings into them next year. It works. Last year seemed like a really bad year for grasshoppers but I didn't notice a lot of damage except to a night blooming hesperaloe, they leave the kind of scar that is there for years because the leaves are so long lived. Maybe it was all the rain?

    What is really maddening is, there is some kind of beetle that girdles the stems about halfway up on my liatris every year, then the top part dies back and it makes the stem branch out. I'm forever pulling off brown tops that are about 4 to 6 inches long.

  • dbarron

    I dislike roaming cats too (wish people would just keep them inside their homes), but cottontails are pests in my yard :(

  • texasranger2

    Are you familiar with that liatris girdler I described? They eat into the stem just enough to kill the tops. They show up every summer when the stalks are getting tall and liatris is the only plant they attack.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Do the Liatris branch out after being snipped or not. My big problem with stock photos is that they take a picture of something beautiful from nature and contaminate it with their own likeness. Who wants to visit a pristine rain forest and see human names on every plant?

  • texasranger2

    Jay, I tried to describe it but I guess I wasn't clear.

    They girdle the stem killing the top portion of it. It doesn't matter if its snipped or not, the remaining stem, which is still alive, branches out. I only pull the tops off because they look ratty.

    When I said stock photos, I meant photos pulled off-line as opposed to photos people take of their own yards and plants.

  • dbarron

    It depends on the liatris species to me whether it produces noticeable branching if the primary is damaged.

  • dbarron

    Oh my seeds shipped at 3:50 pm today (which is one hour ago). 15-20 days to get them I would expect...right around Christmas.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Sounds interesting and complicated. I've only ever grown spicata. There's others I'd like to try. I never wanted to start them from seed because I didn't want to wait. How many years does it take for most of them to flower?

  • dbarron

    I've seen both spicata and pycnostachys not branch. For pycnostachys, probably three years (but maybe four).

  • texasranger2

    Each of my plants have several stems, I've got as many as 15 or more on a couple of plants, the two plants will fill a paper sack when I cut back the long stalks. The only time they have a single branch is when they are young. When a branch gets eaten off by the bugs, it will form about 4 or more new stems that branch out awkwardly and bloom instead of the long single graceful stem.

    I've never been sure what kind mine are, I got them in Kansas along the roadside by a farm of a friend of my sister, up around Wellington which is close to the KS/OK border mid state. The leaves are olive in color, very thin, stiff and rough and the florets are packed tight forming about 12 to 15 inches of purple on tough stalks with massive amounts of very viable seeds by the time I trim them all back.

    They tend to snake if the soil is not right, I never know which ones will.

    A seedling will often form a single blooming branch the second year. I have to cut mine back in early fall before the really shatter, otherwise I have them coming up thick as grass. Its too bad because I really like the way the fuzzy stalks look but I learned my lesson. The 'Prairie Guy with the blog in Plano Texas trims his back too, same reason.

    As it is, I still always get a lot of volunteers. They are easy to pull the first year, then forget it, you'd have to dig and on a big plant, you'd really have to dig deep and even then I don't think you'd get it all.

  • dbarron

    I think you have punctata var mucronata TR.

  • texasranger2

    Probably right, the picture looked the same but then the pictures all look so similar to me except for that one with the spaced out florets which I can't think of the name right now. I picked up some seeds of some early blooming, greener, fatter plumper leaf variety last year at the HM (type?). It blooms way early in summer. I ought to sow them. It doesn't look as 'wild'.

  • texasranger2

    Barron,

    You got me in the mood to sow seeds indoors and I'm tempted to order some seeds too. I'm doing my usual yearly seed test with damp coffee filters in a ziplock bag. I enjoy testing the seeds in a small space and I can see any development through the damp filters and bag without the hassle and space of sowing in pots, I code them by number. Anything that sprouts gets pricked out with a toothpick and planted in a pot to grow in my big sunny window under the ceiling fan. This has worked well for me for years and gets me through winter.

    This year ---

    1. Big Red Texas Sage
    2. Azure Sage to replace a too large lantana on the Hell Strip
    3. Unknown cone flower from last year (surprise me)
    4. Giant Coneflower
    5. Desert Marigold in case the direct sowed ones don't come up
    6. More Greyheaded Coneflowers
    7. Unknown type of Goldenrod that looked fairly tame and not too tall. Seeds are very tiny.
    8. Seeds I gathered the other day and already forgot, I'm still wracking my brain, backtracking my steps that day.
    9. Those gorgeous asters I collected that I think are Aromatic Aster but if not, I don't care, the parent plants were very nice.
    10. Ephedra --second attempt; nicked seeds came up easy but the plants died last year due to a rainy week, pots on the porch.

    The Giant Coneflower seeds are exactly like the regular purple coneflower seeds except 10 times bigger. The mystery coneflower seeds look like them too except tiny but they might be rudbeckia, I don't know. I dropped a plastic container of seeds behind the dryer and when I looked for them, there were three mystery 'cones' in the dust and thought, what the heck, I'm planting them. I had to coax them out with the end of a broom, wasn't easy.

    If the asters don't germinate after a couple, three weeks or so, I'll put some in the fridge for a chill. The rest will be WS outside in pots. Its the one I want the most.






  • dbarron

    Sounds like a plan TR and makes sense.

    I've never met the goldenrod that was tame, except the ones that die on me.

    I suspect you'll have luck with your germination.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    The last reply was a fail. Don't want to mess with messaging now.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Ditto!

    I said I apologise for not following closely. I won't lose any sleep because of snapdragons. I will study what was said! ;) later :) BUMP!

  • dbarron

    It's ok Jay, I didn't put my glasses on this morning while making breakfast and I managed to have some gravy with my main helping of black pepper (used wrong slot and dumped pepper vs sprinkling). We all make mistakes, especially as we get older. Lol. And this is a long thread to read through.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Biscuits and gravy. How southern! :)

  • texasranger2

    Barron, I plan to go back and read the ID label on those goldenrod plants and then look it up. There were three varieties out there. The plants in question were smallish, a neat clump that looked harmless. Based on the extensive numbers of them growing for miles along the roadsides, I've shied away from goldenrod's in the past except I did order the cute little 'Lemon' one from SRG two years ago.

    When you say tame, do you mean roots or are you talking about volunteer seedlings? I've got a silver ironweed that I hope I don't live to regret planting. Sally Wasowski wrote that it appears tame for a couple/three years and then you discover that its very aggressive underground, starts sending up new plants long distances from the original and that is when you discover why they call it 'iron'weed. Farmers say the roots are as tough as iron; like re-barb underground which makes plowing very difficult.

  • dbarron

    Lol, yes, that's why it's called ironweed :)

    Yeah, I either lose goldenrod or regret planting them, but maybe there are some tame ones out there that would also live.

    Solidago speciosa and ptarmicoides both departed (multiple times) from my garden. Whereas canadensis was an unwelcome guest in my prairie in Oklahoma.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    S. canadensis is very weedy around here, so nobody really wants it in their gardens. The canadensis is probably the reason why a lot of people shy away from planting any Solidagos. I grow the stiff goldenrod and I like it a lot. The fuzzy leaves, and the fact that it's not agressive. My clump is getting too big though and needs to be divided. I try to grow the ones that are more clump forming. I'm trying out S. caesia, and S. odora. Barron, are you still planning on sowing seeds???

  • dbarron

    No Jay, I just ordered them..and I will now put them in the garbage and not sow them. What do you think ? :)

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Well, like, you had so many days to change your mind, and so many people were trying to change your mind, and I'm questioning whether you were ever in your right mind when you made the order to begin with. I also fancy little frilly things like collector asparagi , sweet peas and primulas (God knows I'd never grow them lol), but I guess I could take or leave those plants, they aren't worth searching world wide for, to me anyway. The poppy was a bad choice. There's so many poppies you have to choose from that would work in Ark. I'm interested to know if you kept the Impatien. It's an ok Impatien. I just thought now that you were already planning on sowing seeds that you might have started adding more things. On the other hand I considered you might have been so wrecked from not being able to grow Ronmeya that you abandoned the whole seed idea and went back to just ordering choice plants. " adding more things" See I did it. Nobody else has to lol. 1684 seedlings


  • Jay 6a Chicago

    If you can really succeed at growing that heat tolerant primula I'll grow it. It seems almost to good to be true. I can't even grow English daisies here with our heat and humidity. I hate when the top falls off the pepper.

  • dbarron

    Actually the only poppy I've ever had success with (limited) is the oriental. I *did* give what I threw out of the basket up above.

    I had kisoana once before in Oklahoma, and had it a year and a half I think. I want to try again.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I picture you with Oriental poppies. White ones and those bright red/orange ones. I do really like them except for the fact that they're not native. I grew one once. The dormancy period is something you need to plan and plant around. I'm not at all familiar with kisoana. Must be another of those southern species I've never been exposed to. I mean, I love poppies too. I try to always have some members of the family around. First thing in spring there's the Styllophorum, and the bloodroots with their poppy like blooms. And the fumitories D. spectabilis, D. culcullata. In summer I have the California poppies as annuals and next year I'm adding Argemone, prickly poppy and P. somniferum, so you can still get your fill of poppies. You should grow Meconopsis lol. I'd love to pull that one off, and the big nursery here tempts me with it. I'd love to grow it next to some blue Impatiens nabchabarwensis. Now wouldn't that be special! I would have taken the nabrida. You didn't have to throw them in the garbage. They're probably floating in coffee grounds and cold, peppery gravy lol.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    The kisoana is from Japan. It should stay there. There must be some native that would fill that niche!.

  • dbarron

    Yes, there is a preponderance for Chinese and Japanese things to be invasive. If I felt that was the case, I wouldn't order/plant it though.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)

    There is nothing invasive about that primula!! Yes, it spreads a bit but slowly and manageably.....in much the same way epimediums do. And it is a Great Plant Pick for the PNW, meaning it is a well-behaved and very desirable inclusion for PNW gardens. Good for a moist and shady area......a woodand garden?

  • dbarron

    That was of course my plan, GG. Lets hope the plan comes to fruition (and the darn things sprout). And it likes the Upper South too.

    You know i have primrose envy.....of the North.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I knew when I recommended the Meconopsis gardengal's ears would perk lol. Hostas aren't invasive, just sterile and boring. It's a pretty primula. Grow it if it makes you feel good. I really have no room to talk about growing non natives. I'm very wrapped up in natives now but there's still a list of tropicals and exotics that I grow, mostly as summer annuals. I confess I got European vetch seeds as a butterfly host plant, and I grow the European Nepeta cataria to get my cats high and calm them down. Get that primula. I want pictures, but please do try to stay a little native minded :) .

  • dbarron

    I have a very thorough planting of natives. I'll happily watch them grow, propagate them, and supplement with non-natives. The fun is in the growing and watching grow.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I thought it was kind of strange that so much Canada goldenrod was down there by you. I just realized I choose new goldenrods by how much they DON!T resemble the Canada. It's pretty much the only goldenrod I see around here, if there are other species they get drowned in the yellow. The couple other very common fall plants are Ageratina and boneset. I don't know what's common there... frostflower? I have extra cow pen daisy seeds :)

  • dbarron

    Boneset was everywhere in my Oklahoma prairie. Also, would you take some of our Canadian geese ? :) They make permanent (non-migratory) homes here.

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I was wondering where all our geese went. You don't get the redwing blackbirds too. Speaking of redwing. I've winter sowed 60 variegata seeds. Now, minus the slugs and the bugs, and a freak flash freeze, do you think my chances of raising a few are good, or should I order more seeds? I really am serious!

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    Oh, and I thought you'd be happy to know that I just shipped off a ton of cow pen daisy seeds to all 4 corners of the country.....study up! :)

  • Jay 6a Chicago

    I'm only interested in your final decisions becuase I think you are a facinating gardener and native plant enthusiast. I like keeping tabs on your current evolution. Well, as best I can through all the mystery. Oh, and you are an excellent plant identifier!!! There, I said it lol.

    J

    dbarron thanked Jay 6a Chicago

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