Camps, I think you have me licked as far as the number of vascular plant species you are growing, because it seems you do seeds year round and I know it's a mind boggling figure to some that sets off panic. Any chance of a rough estimate? Thanks for spreading your seed love around. Well done!!! What to do with all these seeds? Stay calm and carry on . I'm growing a few new native umbellifers.

Darn, wish I were close enough to Camps to get her discards/gifts.

But don’t you just love the vision of the meadow suddenly (and perhaps to observers, mysteriously) full of flowers?!

Even the laziest of person can manage a seed. I speak from experience. Dirt in a pot, sprinkle the seeds on, cover with grit and I put it outside. Some grow, some don't, it's no different than any other part of gardening except that you have a few more weeks or months or years to feel guilty about finding them a spot in the garden as opposed to the potted plants which sit around just as long waiting for their spot.

I guess if you can manage to build up a pot ghetto you can handle seed starting!

But on another note I was looking around at the beds last month trying to find plants which were the products of my own seed exploits and it was really kind of underwhelming. I guess I manage to still kill off quite a few things even if I get the seeds sprouted, but compared to the bucket of labels which no longer have a plant to go with them it's also possible i'm just an equal opportunity plant killer.

I think if there's no seeding around going on in your garden (planned or unplanned) you're missing out on a lot.

Another reason to collect and grow seeds is to build up a seed bank of plants that thrive in your very particular locale and conditions - soil, climate, sun, and who knows what else that may effect which seeds germinate and how they grow. It's evolution in your own lifetime. Tomatoes offer the best evidence. You can see which plants produce the earliest, the best, the most, so those are the seeds you save and sow next year. Year by year your yield improves, After five years your seeds become priceless because you know they will perform in YOUR PARTICULAR GARDEN.

I don't discount the difficulty. Winter sowing is not as easy as it's billed. I am getting better, but there are many failures. The key is to persist - in gardening as in politics - and to build on your successes. We haven't heard from Ken on this, but I think he beats the drum for experimenting in order to learn something. And not dwelling on the disappointments because life is short. We don't live in tree time.

Frozebudd, it is always a pleasure to see your garden photos! The roses are beautiful.

O lovely, Frozebud.

Honesty compels me to confess to many germination fails. Some years, I may get 70-80% success while other years, I have woeful results with maybe only 50%...but even so, 50% of hundreds is still a lot of plants (and it would probably be disastrous if everything did actually germinate.

Jay, I probably sow anywhere between 50-100 species most years - very few of which are bought from seed merchants although I always have a Seedaholic order, plus several ebay vendors (who I know and trust to sell fresh, viable seeds - not some chancer from China). I bought a whole heap of wild flowers (including a few US natives such as rhexia, boykinia and cryptotaenia ) from a wild flower enthusiast in the north of England, and I always buy a few salvias from Robin Middleton.I have been a bit out of control, especially when given access to places like our local botanics and the seed lists of the Hardy Plant Soc. At a measly £5 (maybe $6-7) for 20 different species, it is easy and cheap to fill a few seed trays. The real anxiety starts after germination, although I find it very easy to leave the plants to fend for themselves (out of sight, out of mind)...

I do a lot of random seed planting, Babs. I don't broadcast seeds though - I scuff the ground with my bootheel, drop a few seeds in place, then tread the seeds into the earth. Getting a good contact between seed and soil is the best chance of success, for me. I might scuff a bit of loose soil to cover, if the seeds are fairly large. After the cowslip success, I have sown musk mallow, flax and peucedanum ostruthium in the cemetery New paths have been laid this year, with all the edges nicely levelled with fresh topsoil. Practically demanding some guerilla seed sowing, especially since I have a whopping stash of seeds from another couple of council garden schemes (gilia, ammi, cosmos, cornflowers, nigella, gyp, iberis, rudbeckias...perfect for an easy first year display, with robust and easy perennials ( knapweeds, centaury, dianthus, geraniums, salvias, scabious and such.

Camps this year I decided to get seeds for every kind of plant I've ever wanted to grow but haven't. Which this year amounts to roughly 150 species. I've never taken on this large of a project before but I'm in a state of bliss thinking about all the new species I'll be coming to know. I won't be and won't need to be sowing anywhere near this many seeds next year. The Crytotaenia is one of my new ones too, with Taenidia integgerima, Heracleum maximum, Polytaenia, Thaspium, Ozmorhiza. I'd love to grow the miniature water hemlock (gorgeous) but I'd have to create a bog garden.I'm doing Sedums from seed for the first time now that my taste for them is getting more selective. Your sense for finding great seed sources is admirable! I think growing Rhexias in England is so cool. Totally weird but cool. You may have influenced my obsession, not sure ??? But it's been fun skipping with you in the meadow of reckless abandon! *

Wow! What interesting and varied responses. I will share my experience. As a newbie to this whole gardening thing a few years back, my first inclination to expand my garden was to go to spring plant sales, run by various horticultural societies, schools, etc. I was privileged to discover some really great sales which I still go to these days. Anyway, I scored such great deals and I was really introduced to this concept of dividing plants, and sharing as a very quick and immediate way to get more plants.

Meanwhile, a somewhat grassroots seed exchange had begun in my community, and as I begun to get more community involved and my love of gardening was growing, I started to attend these. The whole concept was community engagement (as in community groups) and then actual rooms where people would bring seeds, which were packaged up, labelled, and free for the taking/exchanging. And such an interesting and diverse lot! Things I had never heard of, handwritten little envelopes, often without the full name but comments like "tastes great" or what have you. Plus all the major seed distributors would have their catalogues. And this was scheduled in February - so the perfect time when winter making you desperate to be gardening. So gradually it grew from that, to realizing I should acquire a grow light system, which I ended up getting a prime one dirt cheap off kijiji.

The introduce my partner in crime, who similarly became garden obsessed - and over the past few years we have fine tuned how we can manage this whole seed thing. It's mainly veggies and annuals that we do the grow op for, and she's a teacher with a March break - and that's our cue to get the stuff all potted up. I also liked the idea of making a bit of money on the seed to fuel this whole garden thing, and I did a bit of that, but not sure if I have the energy/time to keep up.

So I really look at this whole seed thing as a natural extension to me learning about gardening, and flexing a different muscle, as it were. And I can start doing it at a time when I need to get out of the dark depths of winter despair and start gardening inside :-)

I have started seeds indoors in the past, and for me, it's been too much work and a failure. I'm a lazy gardener, so I prefer to let nature do its work. I either direct sow in the Fall or I winter-sow. I have had much better germination rate winter-sowing my hardy annuals and perennials. Look it up and see if it works for you. It's been a big money saver for me, plus it gives me something to occupy myself with during our extremely long New England winters.

Gorgeous Frozebudd!

I can't imagine *not* starting seeds! There is just so much available by seed, especially in terms of annuals and vegetables -- by far more that what is available at the local nurseries (and I have a lot of really good ones around here). Growing from seed, you're not held hostage to trends or missing out on your favorites because there's a "new and improved" whatever that replaced it. I appreciate being able to grow singular colors of annuals, and I can find the colors I want - I'm not limited to whatever color is hot this season.

Plus, I never, ever fail to be in awe of the process -- plant a seed, it germinates and grows on to provide food or enjoyment. I see the glory of God in that. Nothing chases away the winter doldrums like sowing seeds, tending the seedlings and watching them grow and anticipating spring planting time. :0)

I used a jimmy-rigged shelving unit and light set up for I don't know how many years until I got this puppy when I finished grad school (DH's gift to me):

I love this thing! So much easier than dealing with lights on chains, and it rolls away against the wall for storage when I'm done with it.

Thanks Babs, the sentiment is mutual, especially in that a good deal of the plant material you discuss can also be grown in my colder climate, I'm partial to perennials, roses and hydrangeas! The rose breeding aspect is fun stuff, but lots of work doing a significant number of crosses and growing out hundreds of seedlings to obtain just a few superior plants, but that's what makes it rewarding!

Campanula, please mention again of your favorite top one or two seed suppliers for the unique and rare? Obviously, you keep yourself b-u-s-y with seed sowing!!

Mxk3, "I can't imagine *not* starting seeds!" .... yes, and it's fun to collect and save seed to find the occasional desirable variation among seedlings.

OK, Frozebudd - here are some of my favourite sources - and, I think, all can be shipped to Canada.

For the longest time, I used Chiltern seeds - and still do for odd seeds - I bought my silphium and verbesina from them, after forgetting to save cowpen daisies sent from Tex(as Ranger. Plantworld seeds took over as top choice for a while (and I always have a list, if not an order on the go). Special Seeds, run by Derry Watkins, has been my best pick for seeds with short viability (especially apiaceae and ranunculaceae...although the quantities are a bit parsimonious). A desperate search for the sole swallowtail food plant led me to B&T World seeds, which operates a tremendous inventory but often only sells in odd quantities.

I have used other sources which are not really of any use in the freezy north (such as Seedhunt in Cali and Chileflora).

I buy common seeds and the odd hybrid (penstemon barbatus ''Purple Twizzle' comes to mind), from an Irish seed source, Seedaholic. Always good germination and the most useful and informative notes, with historical and cultural info along with clear and detailed growing advice.

I usually try a few new sweet peas, but there is a vast selection of sweet pea specialists in the UK...as well as the wonderful Keith Hammett varieties in NZ

Have also ordered from Tatiana (tomatoes) over on the US side..

Hey Campanula, I just had to order one more umbellifer. It's the one I was looking for. Sium sauve, tall water parsnip. Can't wait for a bog garden, but it'll be near a hose!

When I moved into my current house about 4 years ago the garden had almost no perennial flowers in it so I grew more than 20 varieties from seed. It was hard work but well worth it. This past year I started experimenting with annuals and again grew them all from seed. I was very successful and so have expanded the number of flower types to more than 50 for next year. I had a snapdragon (Antirrhinum majas) which overwintered and which grew stronger and bigger with more blooms the second year. So I am experimenting with which other annuals can be grown as perennials in my zone (7a). I cut them off at about 3" above ground at the end of their blooming period and have left them to see how they will do over the winter. I am confident that at least 5 of them will grow again next spring off the existing foliage. It is turning out to be a very interesting experience!

Just a small point, Derry Watkins' outfit is Special Plants rather than Special Seeds, if you're looking her up. Slightly ironically she's an American based in the Cotswolds.

@LaLennoxa it depends on the plant. Some plants hate being transplanted, so it's better to sow them directly. Those plants I will try to grow from seed if I can. It also depends on the life cycle of the plant. For instance if it's an annual/biennial that I know won't self sow, I may collect some seeds to plant next year. Poppies and Hollyhocks don't reseed well for me, but the seeds are easy to collect and save so I can plant them next year when I need to. Also most vegetables I try to grow directly. Unless it's a root vegetable they don't like being transplanted in my experience. But yes in general I hate planting seeds, but with some plants I don't really have a choice.

Late to the discussion, but I love doing seeds only because of Wintersowing. My seeds under lights indoors have never done well. In fact, I'm trying to remember if I ever had any survive. My thumb has gangrene when it comes to indoor lights and seedlings. But wintersowing has worked miracles for me. I love love love watching them grow from the first moment they poke through the seed to full flowering. Makes each year of gardening fun to watch them mature. Nearly 90% of the things in these pictures came from seed. I had lots of coneflower varieties, as you can tell. They look more similar than I had hoped, but I can easily pull them as I add some variety. The first two photos are of the same scene, but in the second photo the later-blooming tall salvia, Blue Cloud, is blooming. It has turned out to germinate very easily from seedlings. In future years I'm going to have to trim the flowerheads before they set seed.

Wow very nice deannatoby, that is what i would like to achieve, replace vast swaths of my weedy lawn with perennial beds like that.

Here is my "wintersowing" setup, so far.

There are over 50 species in there and more trays to add later that dont need cold stratification.

O, very organised, Skip. And Mxk3. Mine is considerably less so.

Thanks for the correction, Floral. have you ever ordered any stuff from her? She was the only source for the little purple field poppy - roemeria hybrida but I was a little chastened to find the smallest number of seeds - around 10...of poppies! So I just buy apiaceae mostly as we evidently have a craze in common for them.

We have those seed sharing days here too, Lalennoxa - 'Seedy Sunday' usually. Back when I did more veggies, I went to a couple but was a tad disconcerted as I had carefully collected and labelled heaps of flower seeds - hardly any of which were taken home, while scuffles were almost breaking out over opened packets of beetroot seeds, so I tend not to bother. Might have another go though, as there seems to be more interest in wildflowers and species although what veggie seeds I buy tend to come from very specific sources every year...and many are so easy to save for yourself.

I've never ordered from Derry Watkins because I don't have room to grow much. But I have bought a handful of things over the years from her stalls at various plant sales or flower shows. I don't remember what any more but they're all long gone as my minuscule back yard has got more and more shady over the years.

Grief yes, Floral, this is exactly what is happening in my (also minuscule) garden. My roses and ceanothus have made a break for the tops of the walls, while the neighbours ivy, solanum and stonking great mulberry have also overshadowed my tiny space. Ironically, a large chestnut succumbed to phytopthera and was removed from the public green at the back of mine...but I only managed a couple of sunny years before foliage started winning the war for space and light. The salvia sunlovers have been shunted to the middle of the garden and there are no spaces for actual people (apart from myself!).

Maybe do like the elves and gnomes and build platforms in the trees to house more pots lol!

Well, that idea would be very beautiful if somewhat impractical (and potentially dangerous to gardeners).

Wow deannatoby your Echinacea (purple coneflower) are beautiful! Mine flowered the first year but not the last two. I think they are being smothered as more things fill out in my garden. I plan to move them to where they will get more sun and have more room. Hopefully they'll be better next summer.

From the middle of Camp's wood.

' all lit up' :)

Jay, you forgot to add in all the hanging baskets and cascading flowering vines :)

campanula,

Do your seedaholic seeds come true to their representation? I've had hit/miss with them. Wrong color, not double, etc. And some were right.

Yeah Rob, I think I had some Frances Perry meconopsis which were not the expected red but a nonetheless fetching orange and I had some Blue Bedder echium plantaginea...which was the much taller Viper's Bugloss (echium vulgare). They source their seeds from varied vendors so can have patchy results. Otoh, I generally buy common, easy plants such as red flax or nigella bucharica which are cheap and usually fairly generous...so pros and cons.

Deanna - such generous plantings and lush use of colour. Love it!

Ah yes, Jay - tree houses!. Youngest has had one in his sights for some years (he has built the platform using all sorts of weird revolutionary fixings). Highly unlikely for us to manage much more than a basic raised deck. O dear, seems like you have been caught by the umbellifer bug. Hard to explain the attraction (I put it down to architecture)...but such a seductive family...and always perfect in a wilder type of garden (or, in my case, a chaotic hodge-podge of fads and fancies).

That's interesting that you mentioned Meconopsis. I didn't know the U.K. had a species of it that was native, M.cambrica. Is the usual flower color on those yellow? I think they decided it doesn't really belong in the genus Meconopsis, new name pending.

Single white and red snaps; two different packages. Got some white and a lot of pink. Surely no read. Doesn't seem too difficult to get right ;) as a for instance

Wanted to pass along a belated thank you to Campanula for the seed source suggestions, Chiltern Seeds, Plantworld seeds and Special Seeds, all have nice websites I'll scour over in my search for something interesting and unique. I miss Thompson and Morgan for when back in the day (about twenty years ago) they offered an indepth selection of quality seeds with dependable germination. Anyways, I'm preparing to have a fence installed around the property that'll enable me to tuck plantings wherever I choose and without further concern for hungry foraging deer, also no continued worries for the admittedly self entitled neighbor lady who has professed to wondering around my garden at 5 am in the morning!!

I would probably be tempted to look around too

Yep, a couple of decades ago, T&M was a different kettle of fish to the current outfit. They used to have test beds just down the road from where I live (but moved to a different location when they cut back some of their seed production). One of my garden thrills was a visit to the seed fields to assess the varieties in growth. Bigger inventory, fresher, home-produced seeds and even generous quantities... but to be fair, I think shrinking inventories are common to all the major seed houses.

Ah, I have a firm (but probably erroneous) idea that all gardeners are keen to share with all other gardeners. Even though I am terminally shy, I have knocked on the door of complete strangers to practically invite myself on a full garden tour (if I get lucky) or a bit of enthusiastic plant chat at the very least. While I would never, in a million years, comment on the contents of someone's supermarket shopping trolley, I have no restraints in a garden centre or plant nursery.

Thank you, skip, Bruce, and Camp, for the compliments!

Bruce, I sometimes wonder about growing echinaceas from seed vs. mature plants from a greenhouse/nursery. This article proposes that most echinacea failures are due to moisture--poorly draining soil, crown rot, etc. She recommends planting mature plants high to protect the crown. I wonder if starting echinaceas from seeds and letting them develop their own crown properly in the soil help avoid crown rot and other issues. Kind of watching mine to see what happens.

Looking at that article reminds me that it's time to rake the dead oak leaves off my echinaceas!

FrozeBudd just gorgeous! Those Roses certainly look healthy and clean, your hybridizing with set goals shows such dedication. Clearly you have had great success.

Lovely deannatoby. I really like big sweeps of colour. It provides such impact.

Camps, two or three times in my life I've stopped and admired a strangers garden verbally with them. It seems we "yanks" are not so likely to do that.

I've been on the receiving end a time or two also..but only that few.

Years ago, I had been stopped in my tracks when first setting eyes on Himalayan balsam (impatiens glandulifera). I had to know what I was looking at and hesitantly approached the door of the home owner. An apprehensive elderly lady slowly poked her head out, though her face immediately lit up upon my inquiry of these plants. She quickly summonsed her husband outside and I was proudly marched over to their towering "annual orchids". Unknown to us all was the nature of the mature seeds pods that then exploded between my fingers and giving rise to a good chuckle as we continued to pop whatever ripe ones we could find, lol. Those dear folks will now be long gone, but I'll forever remember our unexpected nice little exchange! As for those impatience, they seemed to have made their way around to many a gardener before quickly falling out of favor due to their weedy nature!

Campanula, any decent good nursery will place me in my glory, though the opportunity to experience the once touted T&M test beds must have been a real delight! I'm stuck out here in the middle of canola fields, cereal grains and cattle country and what few private perennial production gardens that once existed have now closed.

Thanks peren.all, it's always been a bit of a goal of mine to create healthy hardy roses that laugh off the cold Canadian prairie winters ... even if it's a few decent nice ones, it keeps me pushing forward with it all.

GOD, I can't walk by seeding grasses that I don't have without liberating a seed head or five.. I am guiltless in that regard. I ask permission to trounce in fields with baggies and pens. Wildflowers stop my car in the fall. Friend's gardens seem to shed into my pants pockets. I get bags delivered by the mailman from friends around the country. I grow probably twenty flats of plants from seeds every year and put them out in the fall. Many do not make it in the Texas wilds but Hey, they were free. I germinate many of my successful plant already here to proliferate in my fields. Some do and live to proliferate. Seeds are the only way that I can afford to change my piece of land . It is not minuscule and it is a not very easy place to get things started. I rake and scuff things into dirt with a prayer for timely rains. Tree and turkscap seeds are asked for in plant swaps. I liberate seeds from plants at malls.I want turkscaps in the thousands, well maybe hundreds. I want ageratina havanense in the hundreds. I want thick banks under my oaks and cedars. They discourage deer from other undergrowth.

I love to approach strangers about their gardens. I know what joy that I bring them when I do. I was changed by this act of courage when I was a teenager and met the most amazing ancient sisters who helped me in a troubled time by enriching me with a quiet enthusiasm and knowledge. I was welcomed in their overgrown Houston garden filled with turtles wearing flower decals and amazing plants.. They were my dear friends for a few years until they died.

Thanks deannatoby for the article link. I read it and found it very interesting. I have very well drained soil - actually it isn't even soil really. I think my property used to be either a river bed or a rock quarry. Someone before me put on a 2" layer of topsoil or mulch but when I go down below that it quickly becomes sand and gravel. And below that I find rocks the size of footballs. I recently bought a boxwood in an 8" pot from a nursery. When I planted it I unwittingly picked a spot with a 10" rock just below the "dirt". When I removed it I had enough room to plant the new boxwood without any further digging! I have 9 Echinacea purpurea which I grew from a $2.25 packet of seed. My latest (2019) catalogue wants over $20 for a single plant - or about $180 equivalent so I guess I can be very happy with what I have!! The article said that Echinacea seeds prolifically but I have not had any success (that I know of) letting mine go to seed. It gets so wet here in the late fall that before the seed heads dry out they have already rotted from all the rain.

Thanks Campanula, FrozeBudd and wantonamara for the funny stories about "visiting" other people's gardens. I love having people admire my garden and am always willing to chat and show mine off (am I vain?). I am reluctant however to knock on anyone's door and ask for a tour of theirs. However, there have been numerous occasions when someone has admired my garden and then we have walked down to their place and admired their garden. I have met lots of interesting new friends that way!

I had Echinacea wildly seed once in like ten years (probably the first year I had them). After that, the finches knew where they were and I doubt a seed ever matured before it was eaten.

Wow. I knew my neighborhood was friendly (or maybe I'm approachable?), I can't be in my yard without folks stopping and talking gardening. Y'all need to live here!!!

That is how it was like in my down town house that was in an area where lots of people WALKED the streets. We talked with each other about everything and bummed plants off of each other like crazy. That is one thing I miss living out in the boonies. No one straggles in.

I have always enjoyed starting from seed and propagating from cuttings. I don't do it every season, beyond whatever I start direct sown in the vegetable garden, but for multiple reasons, I have done it - less expensive way to grow plants - I like to try a lot of new plants and often I am looking for some specific quality in a vegetable or flower and difficult to find that at a local nursery and more likely in a seed catalog.

It can be a lot of work and time intensive. I've made the mistake like others here, of starting too many too early and given myself too much work. But it is surprising how many seeds you can start in early spring, so you are taking care of them outdoors once they germinate.

I found winter sowing a trade off - more work getting all the seeds sown and labeled into containers, but then there is very little work. And you're using less resources like lights indoors. And it was fun the few years I tried it and amazing how many plants you can end up with.

Like many here, my garden is pretty mature and full of plants now, so I start less than I used to.

Love umbellifer flowers. I would love to plant daucus carota/wild carrot/Queen Anne's lace, but it is invasive here.

Very many of the umbellifers are biennial or even monocarpic, so controlling them, in a garden situation, is relatively easy. A nifty deadhead before seeding will do the trick. In only 2 years, I cleared my woodland of wild hogweed with a set of hedge shears. There are certainly a few native umbels (angelica arguta comes to mind) which might fit the bill, Cyn, and some amazing dark-leaved, pink flowering angelica vatieties such as Ebony or Vicar's Mead. Easy from seed too, if you are able to source from a good seed merchant such as American Meadows or Seedhunt...or even Plantworld over here.

Thanks Campanula! I did think of angelicas. They are on my list! I have loved Queen Anne's Lace since I was a kid.

cyn427 not resembling QAL but Astrantia is a long lived and lovely Umbellifer.