I would look up threads on the Blue Star range. There are many. There are not nearly as many about Thermador. My feeling is if you are not in love with the high heat and basic/non electronic build of the Blue Star- save the money and go with Thermador. Their steam assist is much loved by those who have it.

I don't have either of these products. Just hoping to get the conversation going. Good luck with your choices.

I agree w/ Rita. The burners are the only reason, though a good reason, to get a BS. There are increasing reasons (build quality, service response, poor performing griddle, etc.) for not getting a BS. If you don't really want the BS burners then I think I'd go Thermador.

Sadly BS do not appear to have anyone involved from an engineering or cooking standpoint, they are simply manufacturing something that was handed down to them. This is too bad as there is certainly demand for a really good high end range (and hood).

Both will require semi pro ventilation and makeup air. Don't put all of your budget in a range.

I would not want a Thermador dishwasher ... even if it was "free"!

Pick the best appliances in their class and in your budget ... and not by the packages offered.

Consider GE Monogram gas range. To me, unless you do wok cooking, the Bluestar is not attractive to me at all.

IMO no one needs a 48” range with the huge cost of venting not to mention the noise from that venting.You can buy a griddle that spns 2 burners for any stove for 25.00 and it will work just as well. I run a catering biz from my home with a 36” all gas range which BTW is a Bertazzoni I do howeever have doulble wall ovens that are all electric and that is because I like some things baked in a gas oven like bread and pizza.I would never buy all appliances from one maker and IMO Bosch still makes the best DWs . You buy appliances for how you cook and get plain old stainless they all will look good together . Any decent appliance store will give you a good price if you are buying everything from them no need for a pkg. containing anything not worth buying.

Isn’t the Thermador dw a rebadged Bosch?

i'll agree that a griddle across two of my thermador burners works great.

I always shake my head at the "no one needs" comments!

Where do you stop with that type of thought:

No one needs a 48" range.

No one needs more than one bathrooms.

No one needs more than a 1000 sq.ft house.

No one needs what I don't like or I can't have myself!

Do I cook up a storm on my 48" range? No, I only have one kid left at home, but it fits the size of the kitchen, house, real estate price point and the "huge" cost of venting wasn't that huge when you look at the whole kitchen budget. I also have 3 ovens, which I'm sure someone thinks I don't need either! ;-)

While I probably don't need 8 burners, I do want to the double oven and am not a fan of wall oven look for our kitchen. So that is why I'm looking at 48" ranges. I'm open to other suggestions though!

i have my second 'wall' oven underneath my counter.

my first one is paired with a microwave on the other side of the kitchen. but you could have one oven like this and the other as part of a more standard size range.

we each have our own annoyances, for me its someone wanting to check whats going on in an oven while i'm trying to cook at the stove. so separating ovens from cooking surface made sense for me.

I've seen a lot of people who don't cook overbuy in terms of appliances, even past what's considered the price point for the home. Buy what works and what you love.

Have you looked at the LaCanche ranges, Frenchranges.com

I was also debating ranges 4 years ago, and found that the LaCanche range fit my wish list better than any of the others. The range is built to your request, many colors, oven and range top options. Best of luck.

Meagan, make sure you go to a showroom with the types of cookie sheets and casseroles you might use in the ovens. Not all ovens in 48" ranges are sized the same.

In my old DCS 48" range (all gas) the smaller oven was too narrow and many things didn't fit. I also didn't like that the larger oven took way too long to heat up, but that might have been partly due to age and maybe needing a tune up.

For the remodel I went with the Wolf 48" range with dual fuel. The smaller oven is a little wider and fits more things. Both electric ovens heat up quickly.

My most used new appliance is my Miele XXL convection/steam oven (my third oven). I placed this oven in the island, under the counter and next to the prep sink, so it could be connected to water/drain.

Meagan, I'm with you. I also need/want 2 ovens but don't like the look of wall ovens. I chose a 48" Hallman (not delivered yet...still in TX... so I can't talk about performance). They are gorgeous dual fuel ranges!

I was going to get a Blue Star until I used one. For me, It was impossible to simmer or cook at low temperatures. I decided it was too much output for me. I ended up with a Miele 36" all gas range with griddle (which we love), but also have wall ovens and an induction cooktop, which I prefer over the gas. I almost got the Thermador range and combi-steam oven, but at the last minute switched to Miele. I was very close to a 48" range, but decided I wanted wall ovens because of the heat while using the cooktop. I completely understand a 48" range. Get what you will use and will help you enjoy your kitchen. I had Thermador double ovens in my prior house and loved them. The Thermador DW is the Bosch, which is a great DW.

I wanted two ovens (more for the energy savings in cooking a single cookie sheet of fish sticks or whatever than to run multiple roasts) and somehow didn't need more than 30 inches. And the 5-burner top includes a double-width central burner/griddle...

But of course, to each his own...

IMO no one needs a 48” range with the huge cost of venting not to mention the noise from that venting.

Ridiculous statement of the day? I could argue that no one needs indoor plumbing as well (and I know and have interviewed dozens of people who have only an outhouse and are among the longest lived and healthiest people in the world).

The size of the range has zero to do with venting noise. A 30" hood can and often is just as loud or louder than a 60" hood.

The size of the range has little to do with the cost of venting. A 30" gas range has similar venting and makeup air requirements to a 36" or 48" range. They all need proper venting, the increase is size is only a minimal increase in cost.

You can buy a griddle that spns 2 burners for any stove for 25.00 and it will work just as well.

"Just as well" is a matter of opinion. An outhouse works just as well as a Toto toilet. Actually, fewer things to go wrong that require repair by a plumber. A griddle spanning round burners has much less even heat distribution across its surface and across time. If you need dependable reliability and repeatability it will not work nearly as well as a proper thermostatic griddle. Even among thermostatic there is a huge range with Blue Star at the bottom (though still better than burner top), Wolf next, then standard commercial griddles and finally water/oil bath commercial griddles at the top.

considering it turned out that the OP just wants to have 2 ovens and not have them on the wall, i'd say teasing apart whats actually needed is very useful.

Buy what you want. Forget all the judgment.

I love my BS. It's the best all-gas unit available. The burners are outstanding. It will require some practice to use it to their best advantage. The hot control issue was dealt with years ago. It's a simple design that will last many years. No need to recreate the wheel. This a tool that is best used by a cooking enthusiast.

I've had Thermador in the past. They are solid, well-made products. Thermador comes in second with the star-shaped burner. The closed burner does impact the power of the unit as it does with Miele and Wolf. While it's pro-style, it's not pro-performance. This is a tool that is best used by a proficient home cook who enjoys cooking, but doesn't live for it.

IMO, I'd select a 36" range top and a set of double convection ovens. It depends on the size of the kitchen as to whether you can successfully install this arrangement in your space.

If you don't feel the attraction for wall ovens, you are probably under 40.

Is it the Thermador with the big dial in the front? That's just the best thing ever.

luckyblueeye - that is gorgeous!!!! I will def check hallman out!

Thanks everyone for your comments. The feedback is really helpful!

I have the Thermador 48” range with steam oven. I am a big fan of this range. I didn’t know I needed a steam oven or warming drawer until I had them. And, yes, I do need them. Because they make my life easier, and that is the entire point of a kitchen appliance for me.
No real opinion on the blue star, never liked how it looked so it wasn’t a contender. I had a Wolf 48” and liked it a lot. But I wanted a steam oven in the range this time around. Good luck!

@opaone Don't give stern advice from abject ignorance. There is a size of vent hood at which the amount (volume) of air drawn will cause negative pressure in the whole house, risking all kinds of trouble (from slamming doors to toxic chimney smoke going the wrong way) without a system of make-up air that costs thousands of dollars. It's a big fricking deal.

"@opaone Don't give stern advice from abject ignorance. "

Where did I suggest that MUA isn't needed?

I agree don’t make comments you can’t back up. MUA for a 60”hood is a huge expense just ask any new restaurant owner and yes the bigger the fan the bigger the noise.

BS vs Thermador

It really depends on your cooking style and how you use the oven. I would try to find live models and try them out. Both have a star burner but they are totally different burners. The Thermador has a cap which spreads the heat as you turn up the burners. some people use wide pans and consider it an advantage, especially if you have heat conductive pans, heavy copper or aluminum. Some people find the burners to be too wide. BS, top, is designed to keep the heat toward the middle of the pan. This plus the higher BTUs makes it useful for stirfrying. A big pot of water will boil faster.

You mention a simmer burner on BS but Thermador has one of the lowest BTUs for simmer at 375 BTUs. It accomplishes this by cycling the burner on and off. The clicking bothers some people. We can't compare BTUs with BS because they don't make it known. They use a temperature which is pretty meaningless. Anecdotally owners usually say it is adequate but it often needs to be adjusted to be low enough.

Consider what you think is easier to clean. BS has the "open" burner tray which means it comes apart to clean. The Thermador has a sealed tray.

With BS you can buy a range with 8 burners but with Thermador you at least have to have a griddle or grill. The griddle on Thermador and BS are thermostatically controlled but again they are very different. Thermador is heated electrically and is made of aluminum. They use aluminum because of it's excellent heat transfer properties and the element is pictured below. One disadvantage is that the griddle is coated to be nonstick so I would check out how much a replacement cost. They talk about reviving the nonstick properties in the manual with a salt scrub but I don’t think that works all that well.

BS's griddle is made of rolled steel and heated with a gas element. It more of a zoned heating but many people like that.

Opaone “A griddle spanning round burners has much less even heat distribution across its surface and across time."

The burner is but one aspect that determines heat distribution. The cooking vessel, in this case the griddle also determines heat distribution. One big advantage to an overlay griddle is the ability to use aluminum or steel depending on what you want to accomplish. No one has done any independent temperature mapping to see what is the most even heating but I think with the elements and aluminum griddle, Thermador might beat Wolf and BS.

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/120/Common-Materials-of-Cookware

“If you need dependable reliability and repeatability it will not work nearly as well as a proper thermostatic griddle.”

When you add another part like a thermostat, it is additional parts to go wrong.

There are unique functions that a built in can have. It is easy to reproduce a temperature with a built in griddle because you can dial it in. Another advantage to a built in might be stability unless you buy a fitted add on.

Personally, I don’t find it any more difficult to adjust temperatures with my burner than it is to adjust for a big frying pan but that is just my subjective opinion.

An add on has additional functions that a built in does not have, so as many things in cooking, there is not one “proper” way.

-Besides being able to change the metals, you have a lot more space, maybe 50% more, if you look at actual cooking area in square inches.

-You have the flexibility of the burners being used as burners, which might be very important on a 30” or 36” range and less important on a 48” range.

-You can move it to different areas on the range. BS would allow you to customize your layout though, also maybe Capital would, others won’t.

-You can have a lot more heat because you have 2 burners with heat up to 25K each on some ranges. The built ins are limited to about 15K over the whole griddle.

-You can have really zoned heating because you can adjust each half separately

In looking at the ovens, you have the basic differences of gas vs electric heat for cooking/baking. What do you have now?

With many electric ovens, you have more control over direction of heat, a third element and possibly fan speed. With the combi oven there is control over humidity.

Look at the broiler as the gas infrared broilers are smaller.

BS holds a full size baking sheet or two half sheets.

"MUA for a 60”hood is a huge expense just ask any new restaurant owner and yes the bigger the fan the bigger the noise."

Earlier you said: "IMO no one needs a 48” range with the huge cost of venting not to mention the noise from that venting."

MUA for a 36" hood is expensive as well. Once you are installing MUA there is very little cost difference based on size (for residential kitchens). An 800 CFM MUA ($1800) will cost about as much as a 1500 CFM MUA ($2300). For example, install is nearly identical for both systems.

If someone has an old leaky enough house and require a small enough hood that MUA is not needed then they can save a good chunk of money. But once MUA is needed there is little cost difference based on size.

"and yes the bigger the fan the bigger the noise."

Not really. Noise is a function of air flow vs other elements like duct and baffle size. 1200 CFM through 48 sq inches of baffle (3 panels) will usually be quieter than 600 CFM through 16 sq inches of the same baffle (1 panel).

But there's more. A properly designed hood with a larger aperture and large containment area requires less CFM to do the same or better job. This is why commercial hoods in kitchens open to dining areas are quieter (66dba @ 0', 58dba @ 10') than residential hoods (69dba @ 0', 61dba @ 10'). They have a large aperture (open bottom) and large containment area and they have a lot of baffles so the result is lower CFM's and less noise from air flow across the baffles.

Ventilation does cost money and people often forget to include in their budget. The larger the range/range top the more the ventilation will cost.

In my opinion, the 36" range top is the sweet spot. It has enough room to accommodate most cooking situations. Most people don't need a griddle. A portable griddle works well in most situations. 36" is not so large that you have to select the extra large option when selecting ventilation.

As a side note, there are areas that people are building and remodeling in that do not require MUA. Always check with your building department before you go through this exercise. You may not need it. As a general rule, the farther north you go, the more likely it will be required. I'm not talking about needed or wanted, I'm talking about legally required. It's worth your time and cost to check with you local building department.

"IMO no one needs a 48” range"

BTW, I don't disagree with this part of your statement. On the face of it anyway. No one needs a range or cooktop at all. I believe nearly 50% of the people in the world still prepare their food over an open fire. If you look at the healthiest and longest lived people in the world some cook over an open fire and some have only one or two burners for a cooktop. And yet these people all still prepare very healthy and good meals for themselves and guests.

What’s your point ?