What are the measurements of the walkways around the island?

If you have your heart set on this, for sure switch frig and steam oven so you aren't wending your way around island to get from sink to frig

What is the length of the range and 2 cabinets on stairwell wall?

Rawketgrl, the walkways on the right and left side of the island are each 39”. The range is 43.5“ (correction to earlier - it’s the Chambertin) and the whole wall with cabs is 177”.

Clueless, I thought about that and it's definitely an option. The KD said, though that she put it where it is slightly easier to access from the breakfast room and backyard.

A floor plan with dimensions and cabinets sizes would be helpful.

My one thought is that you have a lot of space occupied by larger than average appliances and a 2nd oven and galley sink.

Do you have enough cabinets for plates and glasses and cooking utensils and pots and pans and food you want in the kitchen (flour/sugar/oils/etc) and such?

If you have a big pantry, this might not be an issue, but to me, it seems like the kitchen might have less cabinet space than I’d want.

It might be worth mapping out what you plan to store in each cabinet so you can make sure that you do have enough storage space.

The counter space seems insufficient for a large family with multiple cooks. At the very least I’d rethink the oversized sink. And I’d move it over—two cooks, one at the stove and one at the sink, will be forever colliding. Plus what others have said about moving the fridge over.

Welcome to the Kitchens Forum!

We need a bit more information to really help you. We have a Layout Help FAQ that discusses what we need:

Measured layout of the space under consideration

Sketch of the entire floor so we can see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the home and how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen.

The following threads from the "[New to Kitchens? Read Me First![(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-dsvw-vd~5500754)" thread will help:

FAQ: How Do I Ask For Layout Help & What Information Should I Include?

• https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500789/faq-how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-what-information-should-i-include

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Humorous discussion of workflow and other layout topics:

Looking for layout help? Memorize this first.

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

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Kitchen Design Best Practice/Guidelines FAQ Threads:

FAQ: Kitchen Work Zones, What Are They?

• https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500762/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

FAQ: Aisle Widths, Walkways, Seating Overhangs, Work/Landing Space etc

• https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500771/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

FAQ: How Do I Plan For Storage?

• https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5500787/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

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39" is a little tight for multiple cooks consider a narrower island if you have your heart set on an island. I would want 42-48" so multiple cooks can move around each other....

Your space seems perfect for an L or U shaped kitchen, or is that what you have now and you want an island?

It appears to me that your kitchen functions as a main throughway in your home. That’s unfortunate because you will have a hard time dealing with all the traffic of people getting from one room to the next as someone is cooking.

I’d move your fridge over by the range and move the range farther to one side to give it more room. That is your primary kitchen. Where the fridge currently is, I’d put all your coffee and drinks facilities. You could consider getting a secondary smaller drinks only fridge. This will give you an aisle through which traffic can pass when you’re cooking (ie. that turkey doesn’t go from fridge to counter and across to the oven but stays where it is in the smaller triangle to the left of the rendering you posted, and general house traffic goes on the right. They could also make themselves a nice cup of coffee while they’re at it.

We have a ten foot island and 4 kids (:. My main critique is your fridge placement. I think it will drive you nuts to always be going around your island when you are walking from the fridge to the range or the fridge to the sink. Your work triangle isn't very functional. We have 48" between our cabs and our island and it's still a bit awkward for two cooks, I would not go less than that. I use my counters on my island the most, I would also advise putting I'm a smaller sink.

Your sink is directly across from your range. If one or two people are cooking, the person at the sink will be bumping butts with the cooks. I get the symmetry aspect, but the function aspect should come first.

Enjoy your new kitchen!

I would not want the refrigerator across the island. Consider moving it to the back wall and increase the size of the aisle there. It could be centered on the island, flanked by pantry cabinets or not. You don't have to fill the entire wall with cabinets. With five kids I would put in a second DW. even if it has to be at the coffee station. I would also cut down on the sink size so you can have a drawer base to hold prep tools and spices. If you keep the Galley sink, the trash can be under the sink which would free up space for another drawer base.

I have reviewed the plan and you should have a countertop at the side of the coffee, micro. or at least a pull out countertop.

I have no design experience or anything -but my Mom always told me to look for a good work triangle in the kitchen. Similar to what Laurahahe mentioned above. Is there anyway to reconfigure so you can put the fridge and some counter space along that back wall? I realize that's a throughway from pantry to garage - but if you can squeeze a counter-depth fridge and even some counterspace there - that would give you a better work triangle.

Also - the first thing I thought when I read your post with 2-3 people cooking at a time is 2 sinks - I see you have a big long sink. I'm not familiar with a sink like that - but wonder if it's functional enough for multiple cooks. Think about how you all use the sink differently while cooking - if one long sink with one faucet is sufficient that's great. Have you considered a regular sized sink as the main sink, then maybe on another end of the island a small prep sink? That way one person could be washing produce or doing other prep while someone is rinsing/washing bigger pots and pans? Just an idea to consider!

I would suggest making the island 36" deep to gain wider walkways. 24" deep on sink/DW side with 12" deep base cabinets on ref side. And I would put the refrigerator on left, with ice maker and wall cabinet in middle and tall oven/micro cabinet on right. Thant way you have a countertop landing for each.

Make sure your dishwasher door is not directly across from the range so doors do not hit when opened.

I'd put the fridge on the wall with the range, on the bottom side, where it's easy for family room and breakfast nook to grab a drink. That improves your work zone and adds some functional utility. You can maybe put more pantry by the wall ovens et al and extend coffee onto the counter there (or move coffee station to one side of the nook, if possible). I'd be willing to go a bit smaller on the appliances to make this work, large family or no.

People do tend to talk less these days about "work triangle," and more about separate zones for storage, prep, and cleanup. That right-hand wall is really a mess of those things combined. I don't know what your pantry is like, but maybe you can make a little more sense of things if you, say, put the microwave drawer at the bottom end of the island, and/or see if the fridge can be recessed into the wall under the stairs, so it's grouped with the pantry. If a narrow coffee service can be added to the breakfast nook, that might also give you more freedom to do sane things on that right wall, possibly even shifting the island that direction to leave a larger isle on the cooking and cleanup sides...

You all are awesome! Thanks so much for the input. I wanted to upload the KD’s drawing which is a little more detailed, but we’ve been writing all over it so I think it would have been hard to read.

I’m going to give the fridge some more thought – that was a big concern of mine from the beginning, and I am glad to know I’m not the only one. As to the sink, it will have two faucets like what’s pictured below, so if one of us is prepping at the sink we will likely be to one side, not at the center of the sink directly behind the person at the range. Do you all still think the walkway needs to be wider?

Here’s a VERY rough layout of the whole first floor. We did consider extending the kitchen into the coat closet/wet bar area to the right, but we think there’s a load bearing wall there. We also like having the coat closet and wet bar (which we are turning into a wine fridge).

Matt E – I had the same thought about storage. Fortunately we have a big pantry around the corner under the stairs, where we keep almost all non-perishables except spices/oils. The layout in this phase is mostly conceptual, but once we get the Auto CAD version with cabinet specifics back from the KD, I will definitely map out our storage to make sure we have room for everything.

Buehl – That’s a lot of great information! I will take a look. I know I didn’t include measurements, but the sink has 36” to the left and the right. In this drawing, the island is 43” wide. There’s 45” on either side of the range. Also, the dining room is a little too far from the kitchen to make it our everyday eating area. Plus it’s right off the entryway and I wouldn’t want to put our “everyday eating mess” on display at the front door.

Is your KD independent or a cabinet salesperson?

The information Buehl posted from the Kitchen Forum is some of the most valuable information you can get, especially with your very particular needs with your family.

I would also recommend Marcolo's post from several years ago,

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first-dsvw-vd~2699918

We have a sink across from the oven with a 48” walk way and I still hate it. We have lots of counter space, but both cooks end up in a 4’x 5’ work zone for 90% of the prep.

Sorry, don’t know how to edit comments: I saw above you stated that having a faucet to one side might change things work space wise, but it doesn’t by much because people use the counter space immediately next to the oven to prep, so they will still be in and out of that space.

beckysharp - our KD is independent.

KG, I think you can do a lot better. The first place to start is posting a layout with dimensions and measurements not just of your kitchen but also the entire main floor.

beckysharp, I don't have a layout of the main floor with dimensions, but I drew up a very rough one to show how the rooms relate to each other.

KG, I'm almost certain that if once you have a chance to take some measurements to add to your layout, the clever folks in the Kitchen Forum can help you with something that will work well for your family.

Your KD created a design with a barrier island and insufficient aisle widths....that is questionable designing. I suspect if you move forward with this design that you will regret those choices.

As I had to make compromisess on just about everything in my modest-sized kitchen remodel, the one thing that I kept coming back to was that I was remodeling to eliminate dysfunction in my 30+ year-old kitchen...why would I purposely design dysfunction into my new one with bottlenecks and too narrow aisles?!

Since you do not have enough space for what you seem to want, are you willing to either take out the coat closet wet bar and/or relocate?

I like an actual floor plan to work with . I have a kitchen that I run a catering biz from and very often have 3 or more people in the space . I put 2 sinks back to back in my island the fridge , coffee bar and wall ovens on one wall with a sink on that side , 48” walkways and on the other disde 2 moveable stainless cabinets with butcher block top on each side of my range and a sink on that side . This works very well even for just my husband and I as he does prep and I do the cooking.I think it is very important for you to imagine making a simplemeal and see how much walking you do and try to have 2 of you back to back at the sink and stove, This plan needs a lot more work and with 5 kids that fridge needs to be at the end of a major walkway, not sure the point of the separate ice maker but that really doesn't matter much. I just think there is a much better plan that could be done. I think galley sinks are really cool in a picture but a lot of cleaning needed all the time to look pristine and with 5 kids ain't happening In t he space you have that island can only be 36' wide and IMO that width and 10' long will look odd. Could you please post a to scale drawing on graph paper of the entire space mark where the plumbing is and also the gas line we might be able to figure this out for you.. Could you also post the idea for the pantry under the stairs.

beckysharp and Patricia, here is the layout with measurements. I've drawn it out on graph paper to scale, with the pantry, with current plumbing connections (there is no gas line currently so that will have to be added). Obviously my graph paper skills leave something to be desired :) so I am also including the KD's original preliminary layout with measurements - note that this was written on heavily during our meeting so there are some things that may not make sense, which is why I was hesitant to post it originally. I'm happy to clarify anything. Ignore the table at the top end of the island - we are not doing that. Also I just realized that the two images are oriented differently, which is confusing; I'm sorry about that.

Again, my goal right now is to get the high level appliance placement down. The next phase is an auto CAD drawing with more specifics.

(there is no gas line currently so that will have to be added)

Is this new construction or a reno or ???

Hopefully this works and is right side up,

It's a renovation.

I think you are quite short on storage due to minimal upper cabinets. How about adding a 14” deep cabinet on the big empty wall, leaving good space for door traffic? I loved my previous kitchen which had one tall-but-shallow storage cabinet for all the dishes and all the glassware.

Dear KG,

Based upon what your showing.

Work Triangle

You have a difficult work triangle because you have to go around your island. And you’ll have to always go around using the aisle way that cuts through your kitchen because the distance would be too great to get around your island and dining table attached to it.

Appliance Requirements

Range: You have plenty of counter surface to the left and right for staging items you’ll use during cooking/baking. The counters are wide enough for prepping and cooling trays of items going into and coming out of the oven.

If your kitchen is going to be efficient and work intuitively you may want to have everything you use weekly stored in your base and wall cabinetry adjacent to your range. This way you don’t have to travel but a step or two to get what whatever you use most.

Main sink: Can’t tell if it’s a single or triple bowl. Not sure if there is enough space to the right and the left of your sink to provide adequate staging area for staging all of the items used during preparing a meal, or during clean up when your dining table is cleared.

Two people will not be able to easily work in this kitchen because the sink and the range are directly across from each other. It feels weird to try and work in a kitchen when someone else is directly behind you and you don’t know what is going on.

There won’t be much space left when one person is at the range and one is at the sink. Also makes opening the oven door difficult.

Ref/f: If you’re using a side by side the big door (ref) is always on the right. So you need counter to the left for staging items coming out of and going into the ref., which you have. If it’s a French door, the counter to the right is a little narrow to be of much use.

Because of it’s location when the doors are open the aisle way is impassible. Also day to day and when you entertain if someone is in the aisle way you won’t easily be able to get to your ref/f. Making working in this kitchen layout very difficult because guests and family will want to fill the aisle ways so that you’ll only have access to your range and sink.

You could ask someone standing in front of your ref to get what you need and pass it over the island. But that may not be what you’re intending to have happen when you’re living here.

There isn’t much cabinetry and I don’t see a pantry. Will everything you are bringing here from your existing kitchen in boxes going to fit? And if so do you know where it is all going, that it will fit, and makes your kitchen work as efficiently as possible?

I couldn’t tell you how this layout will provide service for your home because it’s not shown in context with the rest of your home.

Kitchen Design Advice

You have an existing kitchen and it has esthetic and functional performance problems that you are aware of from your own experience. If resolved your existing kitchen would be as perfect as you could get it for the space you have to work with. I believe you should begin your new kitchen design there.

Because if you build a new kitchen without taking what you have now into account, you’ll probably realize that you fixed some problems you are very aware of. And created entirely new ones you will be completely unaware you’re making.

Until after your new kitchen is done, all of your help is gone, and it’s just you and your boxes of stuff and you’re moving in.

Obvious mistakes like having a small work triangle you love in your existing kitchen and discovering you don’t in your new one.

Hope this has been helpful.

Joe Brandao

Kitchen Design Company

Personally, I don’t like the sink directly across from the stove, I also think that the fridge placement might become a PIA as you will be squeezing your but around the island presuming someone is at the stove and then shuffling over to the fridge to bring things over to the sink etc. I’d rather see the fridge and sink grouped together. Then the stove/cooktop and ovens make another pairing. Of course a dishwasher by the sink (ideally beside), and garbage near the prep area, as you already have it. The stove will need pot storage. It’s nice to have cutlery storage near the sink/dishwasher.