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Need help with kitchen layout

Patty Serpone
February 10, 2019

I desperately need some help with out kitchen layout. We have a typical colonial that is 2,700 square feet. Currently the kitchen is the smallest room in the house. We have been working with a kitchen cabinet “designer” and he did say this kitchen is challenging and I am worried the layout and his choice of design, especially where the stove, sink and dishwasher are

placed.. When you walk in our front door you can go right into a living room (that was a dining room but we never used it) straight is the coat closet to the right of that is the stairs to the second floor. To the left is a sitting room and the kitchen. It’s pretty funky. But I also don’t want a complete renovation. We will be updating all cabinets, new island, dry bar and pantry and all appliances. I can try and to use a layout program to show you better. What program should I use? In the meantime I drew one out. Thank you and look forward to any responses!

Comments (26)

  • Patty Serpone
    Hopefully you can read this.
  • kim k
    Do you have a rough floor plan of the kitchen in relation to the rest of your house?
  • kim k
    Lol must have cross posted i see it now!
  • sarahachevalier

    Where will the dining room be?

  • Patty Serpone
    The dining room use to be where the living room is but we never used it, so we put the dining table behind the couch in our family room that I forgot to add to the drawing. I don’t think we could keep the kitchen table if we add in the island so we will have family dinner around the island. We have three kids under 12. As my kids get older I would think we will have the dining room back where the living room is now. Let me know if your confused, I can add pictures!
  • artistsharonva



    Design diagrams to check the suggested comfortable spacing for people to enjoy using.

    The layout has hardly any room for people to actually use it.

  • artistsharonva

    I'm worried,too!


    I'm worried about your cabinet "designer". The cabinet line up has lots of mistakes. I would get someone else. This would of been a disaster.


    This is one of the areas needs a lot of attention.

    1- watch door swing when fridge is against deeper wall.


    Avoid door handle or door hitting wall or worse not opening fully & fridge drawers can not open.


    Check fridge manual before ordering cabinets for needed door swing clearance.

    Example to look for

    2- odd space hole?


    3- cabinets do not lineup flush around the corner. will look like a mistake, especially from side view


    4- decor a smooth surface next to doors not consistent. Add pantry decorative doors to oven panel, if keeping them togeather.

  • artistsharonva

    For safety, check your stove manual for needed spacing from above wall cabinets before getting cabinets. May need to keep cabinets 3-6" on both sides above oven, spread more room. Each stove has different specs.

  • Patty Serpone
    Thank you for your responses. I agree with everyone and this is why I am worried too! I already told him no to that small cabinet. I was thinking of adding faux doors and handle next to that pantry so it all looks the unified. We need to go with a thicker crown molding there to incorporate the beam through it. He then wanted to go with smaller upper cabinets throughout with the same thick molding but I said no and I am ok with the molding thickness not matching. I also suggested the dishwasher go to the right of the window on the small right wall? I added some pictures so you can get a better idea of the space. He originally had the wall ovens on that wall but I thought that was too many appliances close together....
  • artistsharonva

    what is behind here?

    which walls are support walls?


    You may be able to recess fridge partially into wall to gain more space





  • artistsharonva

    There's too much in this design which leaves no room for humans.


    If you have to choose,


    which is higher on the wish list


    the bar wall or the island?



  • artistsharonva

    If the fridge can be recessed & no double oven then more possibilities.


    A slide in oven stove suggested.

    If you want another oven consider an undercounter oven. That will get you 2 ovens.



  • Patty Serpone
    Behind the fridge is a closet. The fridge can go back more. Currently the hinges are on the top so it can’t slider further back right now as it hits the bottom in the upper cabinet. An island is more important to me. I have to look at Measurements later as it seems there is enough space when I am standing in the room.
  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen

    Patty, not every kitchen has room for an island. Yours does not. If you are not aware, there are 31 Rules that govern kitchen design. Plus many building codes. Here is a good online visual representation of those 31 Rules. Many of which are sadly being violated in the layout that your cabinet company gave you.

    http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/kitchen.design.rules.htm#.WvYPH_9OnYX

    Take a look at those illustrations. Then try to find an independent Kitchen Designer who can create a workable and compliant design for you. One that will allow you to age in place in your home. Good luck!

  • Patty Serpone
    There has to be a way that I can have some kind of an island. The room off the kitchen is about 23’ x 15’ how can an island not fit in that space some how? Maybe there is a better way to arrange things...
  • damiarain

    The room off of the kitchen is large enough - but if you don't want to do a major renovation - there isn't a good way to integrate that space into the working triangle of the kitchen.

    If you were willing to do a larger renovation i.e. move the kitchen, I still like the look of kitchen I mocked up for ya back in March =) (reposted below!)


    Beyond moving the kitchen - could the patio doors be relocated? And/or the opening into the family room widened?




  • Patty Serpone
    Hi damiarain!

    Thank you for commenting...again :)
    The only issue I have with your design is having the kitchen sink at the front of my house. I would feel very awkward doing dishes facing the street and staring into my neighbors house and people driving by seeing me at my sink. I circle the two windows from the outside of my home. Thoughts?
  • sarahachevalier

    Don't laugh at my pitiful attempt to edit in Paint...


    Could something like this work? (Note that nothing is to scale and clearances are off, it's just to show general appliance placement.)




    Patty Serpone thanked sarahachevalier
  • Denise Marchand

    I agree that the design is too discombobulated. The flow is not conducive to a dedicated cooking are and kids. Think outside the box with the design. Here is a plan that would work, hope this helps!


    1) Locate the fridge and a full height pantry on the common wall to the laundry. This frees up the traffic to the fridge and goodies and allows a dedicated cooking area.

    2) To eliminate all those overhead cabinets, which no one can get into anyway, work around three "islands" the same size. (the center island is a little wider at 27") This would create a working station (Sink, dishwasher, oven), a prep station in the center (with an end table), and a full height pantry and low cabinet (at the end facing the lounge seating). No overhead cabinets. The two pantries will accommodate what the overheads did.

    3) Install drawers instead of doors in the cabinets for everything, even dishes and glasses. Especially in the center island, which is easy to get to and convenient for the whole family.

    4) The back wall over the stove and sink could be featured with brick or a great tile to ceiling and some floating shelves and good oven hood.

    5) The window, which was originally over the sink, can have shelves and an herb garden, or a garden window if so inclined.

    6) The eating table at the end of the island should not be counter height. Lower it to a standard table height 29" with chair height low stools.

    7) Choose one finish for everything and treat the center island/table as something unique or different color. Treat it as a furniture to add interest.

    8) The far wall indicated a large bookcase depth (12") cabinet, closed and opened, for additional pantry storage. I have found that 12" depth cabinets can hold just about anything and nothing gets lost in the back of the cabinet.

    Here's some inspiration pics:


    Note color of cabinets, oak accent drawer fronts, brass hardware, black window frame


    Note brick back wall to ceiling and open shelves for daily items


    Note drawers in cabinet and shelves over sink (No overhead cabinets)


    Note black window and door frame and no overhead cabinets


    Note to consider center island as "furniture piece"


    Note low eating table at end of center island with chair height stools (Not counter bar height)


    Note this is a converted 12" deep bookcase from Ikea. Consider this for additional shallow pantry space from lounge seating to kitchen - as long as possible.

  • Patty Serpone

    Sarah, that might work but the stove would be on an inside wall. Would that be okay?

    Denise,
    Wow, I am very excited to see this mock up! I wanted to double check measurements. From the back wall to the closet wall is 11' 6". so looks like there would be room for the 27" island but not room for the pantry and cabinet.. I will attach a picture so you can see what I am talking about. Does this change your design at all?



  • Denise Marchand


    Your dimensions seem to be off on your sketch, or I can't figure it out. haha-happens.

    Something is off with the stair/closet/entrance dimensions. Double check the overall dimensions as it looks like it's off in the center. Here's a somewhat revised plan. Obviously a local kitchen planner needs to confirm.

    I like having three specific work surfaces and would hate to give up that pantry backing the stair/closet. Lots of tweeks need to happen.

    Anyway, for the sake of a wonderfully functional kitchen for your family, lose the front closet. The closet seems very small for your size family anyway. Is there another place for a proper closet?


  • Patty Serpone
    I will double check to see if it is off center which is very well could be. Also, there is dead space between the back of my fridge/small pantry and where the closet starts. I think that was throwing my numbers off. I will update the measurements when I am back home in 2 hours.
  • Patty Serpone

    I added in some measurements.

  • sarahachevalier

    RE: range on an inside wall - you would have to see how best to vent it out. In our current kitchen, the range is on an inside wall. I have all the ducts running on top of the cabinets -- everything is hidden by the crown molding.


    It is not as efficient as venting outside directly, but in our particular case it was not possible to vent on an outside wall.

  • Denise Marchand



    Still need overall dimensions from as indicated in pink above.

    However, steal whatever you need from that front closet into the kitchen to accommodate the three islands: 24" sink counter + 44"+-to center island + 27" center island + 44"+- to pantry/island + 24" pantry at stair = 13'-6".

    When you remove the front closet, place a bench and mirror or art above and coat hooks on the perpendicular walls looking towards the seating area, for guests. Or leave the existing closet door configuration with shelves or coat hooks on that interior closet space..

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