We need pictures and yes, you must work with your designer and contractor.

You are going to have to go into the kitchen so you can make a list of things that are bothering you. You pointed out some quality control flaws and those can be fixed, but your concern should be the quality of the cabinets and whether they are well made. It worries me that you mention that you can see filled nail holes from several feet away. You should not be seeing nail holes at all from any distance.

Would you be able to post some pictures?

thank you. Here are a couple photos

These are just a few

There are two drawer fronts where nails have bulged out the wood, so those are a no brainer - I will not accept them the way they are. I have just been sick to my stomach over this as I am paying thousands for these

My designer has not had time to come and see them and told me to contact my contractor, which I did, but she said I will probably have to decide what I can live with and what I can't. I don't think I should have to live with any of it, but am I being unreasonable? I expected with custom cabinets and the price I'm paying the quality of the finish work would be fantastic.

Cabinets are made from wood. They will look and behave like they are made of wood. Those pics show small things that just need touch ups and aren’t in a replace anything category. Is there some larger issue? Because nothing at all is critical so far.

I understand these things are all cosmetic, but my designer is making it sound like these things can't be fixed since they have already been stained.

They also appear to have used the wrong stain, but I can live with that.

You have a severe lack of communication here between your job runners and you.

Much of those perceived issues like the worm holes, mineral streaks, and joins are normal, because you have wood. Some of it can be disguised by a good touch up artist. Some of it will always be there. Because wood. Someone didn’t set proper expectations for you. Or the proper way to judge a job’s issues. It is not from 3”. It’s from 3’ back. In normal light. No glancing light.

Any fill that does does not match can be made to match by an expert touch up artist. Furniture Medic handles much worse issues every day. Touch ups happen, and it can be just fine. If your cabinet maker has the skill. If your cabinet maker just dumped off the cabinets and some paint guy finished them? You’ve got bigger issues.

On “custom”, the bigger issue is the overall box construction and drawer and glide quality. The invisible is more important than the visible. And the coatings. That is very very important. Those are the things to examine and ask questions about.

I'd actually have been more annoyed about the wrong stain. Although that can vary with the wood, so WAS it the wrong stain?

The gouges would annoy me, too, and I'd probably ask that those doors be replaced. Although (unless it's worse in person than in your picture) I'm not sure that the joint displayed is really that bad?

The filled nail hole - I can't tell from the photo - would that shade of filler have matched another section of wood that hadn't taken the stain quite so darkly? That one could probably be fixed on site.

Q? - Who did the install? My cabinet maker installs his own pieces, as he won't tolerate the abuse they take by others and wants it done right. If he did the install, he's the one you need to discuss ALL of it with (via your contractor). If the GC did the install, about 1/2 of that is probably damage during delivery and installation and the other 1/2 was a little slapdash on the part of the cabinetmaker.

The nail hole filler doesn't match anything at all, and in that one spot (at eye level) there are 4 or 5 nail holes. The cabinet maker did the install, but the contractor had his person do the staining, so I'm unsure who was responsible for the filling of nail holes, sanding, etc.

They will have to replace at least one drawer and one door for sure, but the gouges do really annoy me. They are on the cabinets on each side of the window so of course get a lot of light on them, which accentuates the gouges too.

Hopefully the contractor will agree and make everything right when I meet with him.

Thank you all. My Mom had a stroke so I had to leave and couldn't be here to oversee the paint guy working, but hopefully they have someone who can do the touchups well then. Thank you all.

and yes, the cabinet maker did bring them and the paint guy did the rest...lesson learned

I was concerned with that as I thought they would be finished where they made the cabinets, but that is something else I will ask my contractor tomorrow.

Well, there is "custom" - as in, made from scratch for the specific project." And "Custom" - as in, a high end product made to fit a specific project and to often higher standards than a factory product.

I think you got the former. Especially if the "paint guy" did the finish. I suspect you got plain polyurethane instead of conversion varnish. What was specified?

They didn't specify the finish. This is my first experience with remodeling, contractors, etc. and I am learning a lot that I wish I knew before hand.

How did you find the designer and contractor? Have they ever worked for you before? Who was the cabinetmaker and were you shown any example of his work? It's a little hard to believe a cabinetmaker who does custom work would allow those flaws to stand.

What did they specify in the contract with regard to boxes, wood, etc.?

It's had to tell from photos that close up where the damage is and the over all quality of the job. From what I see that's not just touch up work.

I have wood cabinets and they did not come with nicks, nail holes showing etc... The only nicks and dents are my own fault from over 20 years of use - and there are not very many of those. There are no nail holes because the frames were screwed together from back and bottom - there is a name for that, but it slips my mind - Pocket hole screws I think.. My cabinets are not custom - just American made cabinets from Medallion - very ordinary.

I am wondering if the OP got a product from a professional cabinet shop - or if this was the GC just saying "my guy can do that." And calling it custom cabinets. In truth, they are "custom." But they don't seem to be up to the standard normally expected for custom cabinetry. OP, did you see samples of boxes, drawers, and doors when you picked yours out? Go to the cabinet maker's shop?

No reputable cabinet maker who

cares an ounce for his reputation would build an unfinished product and leave the finishing to a possible hack job onsite. Your cabs should have been finished in a controlled climate, dust free facility with conversion varnish and then installed. I believe Holly nailed it.

Thank you. I talked to my designer, and she said that is how they always do it here in Texas...even in multi-million dollar homes, so I don't know what to think. The design firm is a very reputable one that has locations in both California and here in Dallas, so I thought I had done my homework.

Your cabs should have been finished in a controlled climate, dust free facility with conversion varnish and then installed.

This site absolutely loves conversion varnish... It is worth noting that conversion varnish is illegal in Europe because it is a carcinogen and will out gas formaldehyde for a significant period of time and for little real benefit other than the fact it reduces cost.

The Italian 2k polys and even products like Chem Aqua plus will have substantially the same performance and don't cause cancer! I have a separate building that I will spray conversion varnish in if people want me to, it hasn't been used for a while now.

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To the OP. Your pictures are too close to really understand what we are looking at. We need a few shots of the entire job and entire cabinet as well as the close up shots to really understand.

At first blush this seems a quality issue to me. There shouldn't be visible nail holes in cabinets, and unless you wanted some type of rustic or worn look then the character marks are not simply a property of wood.

Yes Holly, they are also a very reputable cabinet maker here in the North Texas area, and I did see their facility and work too. I thought they were finishing the cabinets in their facility when I last spoke to them. I had to go out of state as my Mom had a stroke and then the cabinet maker told me on the phone that the Contractor said his guy was staining them. I should have stopped everything at the time, but due to my Mom's stroke getting there and taking care of her was my priority.

I think I have learned a lot of lessons I wish I knew prior.

I talked to my designer, and she said that is how they always do it here in Texas

There are advantages to both site sprayed and shop finished cabinets. It is easier to get a good finish on a cabinet in a shop just because it is easier to spray cabinets in a shop. It is also generally a good idea to spray cabinets in an uninhabited well ventilated area, so spraying in an occupied home is questionable.

Having said that, a good site finisher who only sprays cabinets will usually beat a shop where the finish is an afterthought to construction. There is no magic in a shop that makes spraying there better.

In reality most of the advantage comes from convenience, spraying cabinets at a preferred height and mobile prior to assembly in an already dust controlled environment versus spraying stationary fixed non mobile cabinets requiring disassembly in an area that requires creating a dust controlled environment.

Hi, Dnuoto,

I suggest you begin by discussing your objections with whomever you contracted with to furnish and install the cabinets.

I think it's fair to compare the fit and finish of the installed cabinets with whatever samples they provided to illustrate the quality level you could expect.

I don’t know what kind of toxic stuff that you’ve used in the past, but the Lenmar (and others) available these days are all pretty low VOC, with high durability. They still should be shop sprayed with good ventilation.

TX is a holdover to all kinds of construction practices that are not tolerated elsewhere. They don’t even require contractor licensing for instance. Lots of iffy stuff happens in TX. They count on high mobility rates and people moving in just a couple of years before discovering the substandard work.

I don’t know what kind of toxic stuff that you’ve used in the past, but the Lenmar (and others) available these days are all pretty low VOC, with high durability.

There is no such thing as a safe conversion varnish. Companies are skating by the regs by noting that their uncombined formaldehyde levels are low. However, conversion varnish cures by creating formaldehyde and some low formaldehyde conversion varnishes will out gas 8.1 times their free formaldehyde and do it for longer terms.

I am really not interested in debating this. I started my adult life as a chemical engineer before I went to the dark side. I used conversion varnish for years before I bothered even informing myself about the product and when I did it scared the crap out of me.

Are there better conversion varnishes today than 10 years ago? Sure. But there are also better water borne products today than 10 years ago. The only real selling point to conversion varnish is long pot life. So a shop saves money by spraying cabinets when convenient rather than all at once.

Bry 911 for once it nice to see someone stating the correct facts based on knowledge and experience. I haven't been around conversion varnish for like ten or fifteen years. When I did it felt like breathing cancer. When I open a cabinet in a freinds house that it wa used on I can still smell it years later. People on here who have never used it comment on it all the time calling it a baked on finish. As you know it is put under hot lights to accelerate drying time for production. Doesn't do anything to harden the finish over air drying. I only use an Italian 2K ploy waterborne fiinish which is way better in every way. A UV cured finish is also far superior to CV from a production point of view but few shops have that investment in a finishing line that it takes.

Is the formaldehyde issue solely because of the action of the catalyst components against each other? Separately, their ratings are fine, but joined, the product offgasses? Once fully hardened, the offgass issue goes away, right? My custom cabinet maker uses a waterborne CV finish. He has a large updraft booth. I’ve never noticed an excessive smell?? On his lacquer jobs, heck yes. Those smell. CV, no.

For the sake of argument, let's forget the CV argument entirely and just talk about "best practices" for finishing high quality custom cabinets. Is that best done in an environment with fewer variables (like a cabinet shop with dust free finishing/painting room) or after they're installed on a construction site? I would assume the prior. I'd also assume that if the OP was shown examples of the cabinetmaker's work with a certain finish, that he/she relied on both the construction and the finish being under the cabinet maker's control and supervision. In this case, it apparently wasn't. If I were a true artisan custom cabinetmaker, I wouldn't want my reputation, which will largely be based on the finished product, to be in the hands of someone I didn't work hand in hand with for quality control. If I were the OP, I would be angry that this method of finishing after installation wasn't disclosed beforehand and I given samples of the finisher's work to approve.

I dont think they look very good. On the second picture you posted, when I enlarged it, looks like it says 44 1/4 which would be a measurement of some type. The varnish itself doesnt look smooth, and is way to glossy. Since your designer isnt taking responsibility, you may have to have a nice long talk with her. In any case, pay them nothing, until you get cabinets to your satisfaction. I dont even think these looks like new cabinets, they appear more like a refinish by an amateur finisher.

Waterbase/ waterborne same doesn't smell like solvent based products. There are still chemicals beside water in there but not nearly as toxic to be around. A spray booth only helps as you are spraying. After that it smells for days off- gassing. Long term I don't know but I just wouldn't want it around me. There are better products to use and like I said for production you can't bet a UV line cured by the time it gets to the end of the tunnel and is bullet proof,

dnuoto: would you be able to post some photographs that aren't as close up?It would be good to get an idea of what they look like in place.

Yes eventually - the contractor was here and said they will make everything right and have two drawers rebuilt so that is good news. I think I could write a book on what to expect when remodeling from a single girls‘ view

Is the formaldehyde issue solely because of the action of the catalyst components against each other?

and

My custom cabinet maker uses a waterborne CV finish.

So really there is no such thing as a waterborne conversion varnish. CV is a lacquer with such high solid content that it requires an acid to cure. That curing process creates formaldehyde.

The majority of off gassing happens in the first 30 days but it will continue to release formaldehyde for years. Realistically, at some point the generation becomes insignificant, but we have seen tests with notable formaldehyde generation at 6 months.

A CV must be solvent based. That doesn't mean that every company must label and promote their product correctly, nor does it mean that every water based product is safe, but most are safer, as it would defeat the entire purpose of developing a water borne finish to make it as bad as CV.

For the sake of argument, let's forget the CV argument entirely and just talk about "best practices" for finishing high quality custom cabinets. Is that best done in an environment with fewer variables (like a cabinet shop with dust free finishing/painting room) or after they're installed on a construction site?

First, very few custom shops are going to have anything approaching a clean room. With a bit of plastic, two blower fans, a HEPA filter, and some masking tape I can create the exact same dust control in a house as in most any shop.

The advantage of spraying in my shop is that I have an Autoquip lift table to spray on. As I am spraying my foot is raising and lowering the cabinet as I spray. So I am not on some ladder spraying high or bent down trying to get the bottom of a cabinet.

On the other hand unless you are building your house around your cabinets they are going to get modified and scribed in. Which will ruin small parts of a shop finish, and site finishing avoids that problem.

Having said all of this, the sprayer matters a lot more than the location. A perfect location and a mediocre sprayer will get you a mediocre finish. Which is better than a mediocre sprayer will get in a bad location. But a great sprayer is going to get a great finish unless you are making him spray under water or in a sand storm.

I misspoke about the product being waterborne. I called him to get the exact product. ML Campbell. It’s GreenGuard certified and certified as formaldehyde free. Are you familiar with the product? Would you have concerns with it? It does not have any but the faintest of odors at install time. No callbacks either for odor or for anything else. .

https://www.mlcampbell.com/product/envirovar-pigmented-whiteopaque/

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&doctype=PDS&prodno=035777174289&lang=2

It’s GreenGuard certified and certified as formaldehyde free.

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Xylene could best be described as formaldehyde free formaldehyde. It has almost the exact same health hazards and almost the exact same exposure limits as formaldehyde. In fact, for the last 30 years any study on formaldehyde has also studied xylene.

Also typically xylene catalyzed solvents will produce formaldehyde out gasses.

dnuoto: Yes, doing the first kitchen is always quite the education But, don't second guess yourself. You absolutely did the right thing to go to be with your mom. The cabinets can and will be fixed and it sounds like they are well on their way to taking care of the problems.