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teriziegler

Help foe sloppy staining

Teri Ziegler
5 years ago
Hopefully this will be my last post complaining about my Builder. Many of you are tired of hearing my complaints because we have kept this Builder though he has caused lots of problems.
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse and most of the problems were done, he stained our pine doors and this is what they look like. He assured me standing them on the frames would be fine. We weren't here when he did it but anyone with common sense would wipe / fix the drips as they go. I am not going to let him leave it like this so I need to give him a suggestion of how to fix it. What would you do to fix these stain drips on my doors? I'm going to try a sample spot, sanding over it a little first and then maybe a little touch up with the stain. I want to have an idea of something that works before I tell him he needs to fix them all.

You don't need to tell me "I told you so", because I have beat myself up enough for choosing this Builder and not standing up for myself.

Comments (66)

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    Here is the stain that was used and as far as the Builder thinks (he is out of town for two weeks), he doesn't know he's coming back to our dissatisfaction and we are trying to figure out what to ask him to do to fix this to our satisfaction. He is not going to go to any great length, because he never has, but I can at least have him sand, prime, and paint if that will make it look better.
    I figure, minimally, that's the least you can do.
    My husband likes the knotty Pine look so he probably won't want to paint the doors, but we could paint the trim.
    Ugh!

  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    You can still keep the doors stained with painted trim. Lots of that is done. However I would hire someone else to do the doors so you don't end up with something similar on the doors or you will end up painting the doors too.

  • PRO
    The Cook's Kitchen
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The drips need to be sanded out or they will show through. That’s a pain, and he likely will not want to do a good job of that. You may want to get a professional painter in to fix this.

    This is also DIYable if you just want to end this relationship and tackle some things yourself rather than spending money to have things done that should have been done correctly from the beginning.

    Once sanded and smooth, you need a shellac based primer, like BIN. Yes it is expensive and stinky. But it seals in all of the stuff under it and lets you paint on top without anything bleeding through, or the top coat peeling.

    Once everything is primed, you need two costs of a satin or semi gloss latex enamel, or oil modified latex enamel. You want a good brand that will stand up to traffic. Paint availability is regional, so if you will tell us what kind of paint stores are available locally, we can tell you the best choice for the paint. The color? I’d do a warm white, to work best with the wood.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    res3dsketches, here is a picture of the style of door and they are made of knotty Pine. All that has been done to them so far is the Builder stained them with this poly stain combo pictured.

  • ksc36
    5 years ago

    You might be better off replacing the trim with some clear pine molding. Then have someone skilled apply the finish. That poly/stain all in one product is not really meant for new work. Pine usually requires a conditioner before staining so it doesn't come out blotchy.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    We have done some things DIY, but it looks like we might be doing more to make up for his lack of quality, and the stores around us are Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace and Sherwin-Williams.
  • felizlady
    5 years ago
    Do not give that fool any more money! If you do, you will have to be classified as a “fool” with him. The person with the money is in charge. He is not performing to minimum standards. He does not deserve any payment. If you don’t stand up for yourself, is there anyone else who will? Beside being extremely sloppy, it looks like he was trying to stain prefinished wood instead of unfinished wood. Keep pictures of all the crappy stuff he has done. He may walk out on you if you don’t pay him, but that will be better than having him continue.
  • RES, architect
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    That's what I thought; IT"S NOT STAIN. Its a water borne polyurethane with a pigment added. The color does not penetrate the wood like a stain, it sits on top of it in the finish. Its brushed on just like any other polyurethane and will sag and run on a vertical surface. Stain is applied with a cloth and the excess wiped off. If this stuff is not stirred well, it will result in the uneven coloring seen on your wood. This is a strictly DIY product and is intended for wood that is not stain grade like poplar, etc. and it usually requires 2 or more coats to be convincing; you probably only got one coat.

    You can sand it and add additional coats but it will take a darker color to hide the splices and uneven coloring. If you sand it and paint it, use a primer compatible with water borne polyurethane. Don't rely on your contractor for this information.





  • RES, architect
    5 years ago

    Were the doors removed from the frames and finished after the photo you posted? If so, what do they look like now?

    I suppose its possible to lightly sand or use a chemical softener and then add more of the same finish but I would use a darker color. Try it on a scrap first.

  • cat_ky
    5 years ago

    Since the doors are knotty pine and obviously meant to be stained, not painted, I am wondering why the trim wasnt stain grade on them. I would be pulling off all that trim, and replacing it with stain grade trim, and get the doors and trim, that you wanted. The doors, may need to be stripped and sanded, to get them back to bare wood, and then dont let him put that crappy finish stuff on. Pick your color stain, and stand over him, while he does it. I wonder if he is even capable of applying the poly finish after staining. I would maybe be doing that myself. In fact, I probably wouldnt wait 2 weeks, I would take a lot of pictures, and get busy stripping doors, and getting someone to put up new trim. Finger jointed trim, is never meant to be stained.

  • PRO
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    RES, the doors were never removed from the frames. He installed them and then painted them on the frame
  • RES, architect
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Since you don't want to paint the doors, you are going to have to choose between 2 paths: 1) removing the polyurethane finish then staining and then adding a clear finish coat

    2) lightly sanding and recoating with the original finish in a darker color.

    There its no guarantee either path will look good and path 1 is considerably more difficult than path 2.

    I would find some similar pieces of pine and use them for testing all of the possible finishes before deciding which path to take. You don't want to make the situation worse.

  • bry911
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Who ordered the doors? Then, from where were these doors ordered? Finally, who made them?

    No one should order knotty pine doors with finger jointed trim, no reputable dealer would let you order this without at least smacking you once upside the head, I can't even believe the manufacturer made them without a fight.

    I would first double check the order, you might get lucky. After that, roll up your sleeves and start sanding.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    bry911, we did not go the normal path of hiring one person to be in charge. My husband is the GC, the Builder and him have worked together using the blueprints the architect made for us. My husband did not think we could afford the house we wanted with a different Builder. So in a way, we got what we asked for. The doors were not ordered by anyone. My husband found them at an outlet warehouse and thought they were a good deal. I can't blame it all on the Builder or anyone else because my husband has made a lot of this decisions being the GC, and I know nothing about home building so I just kind of blindly went along. At this point I'm just trying to make the best of what has happened. I've tried to stay one step ahead and research as we go, but definitely this has not been the way it should have been done.
  • kudzu9
    5 years ago

    As far as I am concerned, finger-jointed wood is only suitable for painting. There's nothing wrong with it being used that way. But if you wanted frames that were stain-appropriate, you should have paid more for solid (non-jointed) wood. I put the blame on the contractor for using the cheaper grade of wood and then proceeding to stain it. He's a hack. If that were my house I would have those frames all sanded, primed, and painted. It will look much classier and hide the poor choice the contractor made.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    5 years ago

    I'm curious why you've employed a "builder" if your husband is serving as the GC. A GC would typically order all materials, hire and coordinate the efforts of a variety of trade contractors, and provide quality controls. I'm not sure either party is doing the latter in your case.

  • PRO
    Norwood Architects
    5 years ago

    Would suggest they be stripped, sanded and painted. Good luck!

  • sheepla
    5 years ago

    I'm confused about what the difference is between a "builder" and a GC too.

    Teri, when all this is over, you are going to love your house. Keep up the good attitude!

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    "...I'm curious why you've employed a "builder" if your husband is serving as the GC. A GC would typically order all materials, hire and coordinate the efforts of a variety of trade contractors, and provide quality controls. I'm not sure either party is doing the latter in your case..."


    Yes, exactly. This has been the story of the construction of Terri's house from the outset. She has posted many times, asking for advice and help for many good reasons. Her husband and the "builder" obviously have little to no experience and have created one disaster after another.


    Wysmama said it best!

  • RES, architect
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    The owner hired a builder. Whatever you call them, the builder was not responsible for buying the doors only finishing and installing them.

    Obviously the frames and trim should be sanded, primed and painted but the choice of a clear or semi-clear finish for the doors is more complicated since they have apparently ready been finished with a waterborne pigmented polyurethane which is not a typical finish since the colorant is in the finish.

    I don't believe we have much information about the doors. Did the finish sag and run? If not, are you satisfied with their appearance? How many doors are involved?

    Be careful to not make the situation worse by refinishing the doors.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago

    RES, yes, the finish on almost every door ran down and puddled on its way down. See the pictures here. I understand what you're saying about the inferior doors and wood, but still, the person staining the doors could have wiped the drips and now I'm left with these looking like this for the whole time I live here unless I do something about it. I'm just very dissatisfied. I know it is our fault because we chose these doors not knowing about the wood they were made out of, not knowing this could happen, but shouldn't the person staining the doors observe how they look and say something to the owner so they can change the plan? I told the Builder before he stained the doors that if he started staining one and it didn't look nice to stop and let me know so we could do something different. I can't believe he would think that this would look nice.
    To be fair, if you stand back without your glasses on you would think they look fine. But I will be living here and I wear my glasses all the time and these kind of things bother me. It's my new house and shouldn't I minimally expect it to look nice? I've resigned myself to the fact that is not going to be perfect but this looks ugly.
    I'm sorry if I sound discouraging, but I am discouraged.

  • ksc36
    5 years ago

    Fortunately, the door slab itself doesn't look bad in your picture. If you can live with the finger jointed door frame, replace the trim with clear pine molding and deal with the drips on the frame. Instead of a punch list, start your own "honey do" list. Maybe your husband will change his mind and let the builder go.


    An early Fathers day gift might help too.



  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    cartist, there were are no details on our contract. All it says is that the Builder is responsible for painting or staining the doors and trim. I did not know that I needed to ask him if he knew how to do it, and he didn't offer any information about the kind of doors we picked out or anything. I guess that was our responsibility. That has been one of the biggest problems is that the responsibilities roles for this house building have not been clear. We've never built a house before, so we thought we were doing the right things and it's been pretty messy so now we know we could have done it differently.
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    TES, you asked me how many doors, there are eight doors that would need fixing.
  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    Terri - such a horrible situation you're in. I think this is good news, but I don't see any issues from your pictures that are on the actual doors. Just the frames the doors attach to or did you just not post a picture of the finish on the doors?


    Since you have paint grade frames/trim there should be no issues with fixing it. Just need to sand down the globs to be smooth and a light sanding of the rest. Apply primer such as Binz or Kilz for an oil based product and then use Sherwin Williams ProClassic as mentioned before to paint. Pick the same sheen on the trim as you will for the doors.


    For the doors if they have had the finish applied to them you have a few choices that has already been mentioned. All of my choices would be to not have the "builder" do the work. Hire a painter who knows what they are doing and not the "hack" you currently have.


    1. Continue with the current poly that includes stain - May not be give you the best finish, but it will be what it is. Remove the doors from the frames and lay flat on something stable such as saw horses/a table etc. Sand smooth any drips/globs if there are any, but be careful to not go through the finish. Use very fine finishing sandpaper after that on the whole door and carefully apply the poly/stain combination evenly. Sand lightly with fine paper and apply again.


    2. Strip the current finish off the doors - remove the doors from the frames. Strip, then apply stain until desired deepness of color (you'll need a conditioner first for the wood to make pine take the stain evenly), then finish with a couple of topcoats of poly or similar finish, with light sanding in between each coat. Hire a painter with good knowledge on how to stain wood to do this.


    3. Paint doors. Need a similar process to painting the trims, but I would have a painter spray them after using stain blocking primer.


    Good Luck!

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Charles Ross, my husband does do all of those things but he isn't a builder. That's why we hired someone to actually do the building. Not sure if that answers your question.
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    wysmama, you just brought tears to my eyes and I had to cry uncontrollably for a few minutes. You just described perfectly the way I feel. I have tried to not despair but it has been very hard and I so appreciate your words. My goal is what you said, to love my house even with all its quirks. My husband is not as clueless as I am about house building, but he realizes he was not prepared. He is a good man with his own faults, but together in this home we plan to encourage many people and bring peace into their lives. I have no doubt that we have been under attack because God's got great things planned for us here.
    Thank you for your kind words. You are a great encouragement and you just made my day, maybe my month.
    If you think of us, pease pray for us as we finish in the next month.
  • RES, architect
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    As has been stated several times, the finish is not oil-based; its a waterborne polyurethane with a pigment added. I have successfully used the oil-based version from MinWax called Poly Shades for wood that doesn't stain well. If you remove the finish you will still have wood that doesn't stain well.

    For the doors, carefully sanding the runs and lightly sanding the rest might allow you to add another coat of the same finish with the door placed horizontally but don't do anything without testing the approach on scrap wood. A second coat should make the wood a bit darker but the original color is so light, a darker shade might help hide imperfections. In my experience professional wood finishers test finishes they haven't applied before.

  • millworkman
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Be very careful sanding those doors as I will guarantee that they are veneer and if you sand very much or too hard you will expose the core, which will NOT accept staind at all.

  • dan1888
    5 years ago

    Teri Ziegler sorry to be blunt. This isn't about you wanting unrealistic things. It is about your need to communicate the level of finish you want to your husband and get him to participate in accomplishing this. Show him this thread.

  • vinmarks
    5 years ago

    I'm curious what your husband thinks of all these drip marks? Why is he not going to the builder to get this resolved?

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    dan1888 I plan to read him this thread in the next couple days. He already did not like how the doors turned out,
    but he doesn't know what I now know from you guys that it was the wrong kind of wood for these doors and trim to be stained.
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    vinmarks, after this last episode with these doors turning out like this I think my husband is finally on board to confront the Builder, or at least back me up. He will be at work when I meet with the builder upon his return from vacation.
  • artemis_ma
    5 years ago

    I hope you can get these doors resolved to your satisfaction. You may need to get the trim replaced with the proper wood so you can stain them (I definitely understand not wanting painted doors if you can avoid them).


  • just_janni
    5 years ago

    I'd do a light sand of the frames and paint them - leaving the doors stained.

    The doors actually look lovely.

    Hang in there!!!!

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Charles Ross, the Builder is from out of town so my husband orders the materials and the Builder does the work. He's licensed in his state but not in this state. This is the way they worked it out. Me not being knowledgeable and how it's all supposed to go, I don't know what I would have done differently because I don't know anything about building.
  • Fori
    5 years ago

    Small comfort, but that's a great-looking door.

    If you can get a nice finish on the doors with that product (obviously you need to replace the trim or paint what's there), it's actually not bad stuff, although it is mocked quite a bit by pros.

    I put some on a set of bookcases 25 years ago and they've help up to all sorts of abuse.

  • dan1888
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Teri Ziegler The doors are meant to be stained or pickled for a cottage/rustic décor. The softwood construction requires special care to avoid a blotchy absorption of the stain color. A sanding sealer closes off the parts of the wood that otherwise will soak up too much stain.

    The trim framing is meant to be painted because of the joints. You could also get away with a very dark stain.

    I wouldn't use that shortcut finish product on anything. General Finishes here has easy to use high quality products. Plus videos.


  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Fori, what did you put on your bookcases all those years ago that has held up so well?
  • Fori
    5 years ago

    I don't recall, but it had to have been Minwax Polyshades or a similar easy-to-find brand. I suspect my one-horse town only had Minwax.


    (I've heard that General Finishes has a version people like a lot for redoing kitchen cabinets, but I think they are better regarded overall than the Minwax type brands.)


    This type of product needs to be applied just like any varnish or polyurethane or other top coat: thin and carefully and in multiple coats. The drips on yours make me wonder if it was put on really thick to avoid having to sand and recoat.

  • cpartist
    5 years ago

    Charles Ross, the Builder is from out of town so my husband orders the materials and the Builder does the work. He's licensed in his state but not in this state. This is the way they worked it out. Me not being knowledgeable and how it's all supposed to go, I don't know what I would have done differently because I don't know anything about building.

    I hope you're doing this with all the proper permits, etc and your jurisdiction is signing off on the build.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    yes, we have all the proper permits, and it is inspected regularly.
    thank you for asking though.
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Lori, I'm sure it was put on extra thick so that they didn't have to do a second coat. My Builder has been constant in telling me he only does one coat of anything. But this time his "one coat" looks disastrous so I'm confronting it. I can't believe if he only does one coat for all people, that the people are okay with the result. I am not so I'm getting ready to confront when he returns. we're kind of getting what we paid for, BUT even someone who doesn't charge as much as others should do a good job with what he does do.
  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Sorry, I kind of know the answer to my own question. You get what you pay for. but any hard-earned money should get minimally a job that's decent I would think. Please disregard if you're tired of my complaining.
    I'm almost done, and I'm trying to finish well.
  • cat_ky
    5 years ago

    Teri just for when this comes up in the future, if you need to stain something, do not use an all in one finish and stain. You stain it, (usually one coat of stain, unless you want it darker), and then at least 2 coats of poly in whichever sheen you want. For walls and ceilings, it is two coats of paint, even if you think it covers in one, it will look much better with 2 coats. Dont let your builder or anyone else talk you into one coat of anything. I would also try to be there when they are painting or staining, or doing anything else for that matter, since this builder has already proven, he is not good at his job. If you ever have the need for a builder or general contractor again, please make sure they have insurance and are licensed in the state where you live. Insurance is very important too, for a builder to have, otherwise if he or she gets hurt, or any other workers get hurt, it is you who will have to pay, or be sued. Good wishes for the rest of your build to go smoothly.

  • PRO
    Charles Ross Homes
    5 years ago

    Hi, Teri,

    Your post notes "

    ...my husband orders the materials and the Builder does the work. He's licensed in his state but not in this state."

    I don't know what the contractor regulations are in your state, but if your "builder" had entered into a contract with you here in Virginia, he would be doing so illegally unless he held a valid state contractor's license in Virginia. My understanding is that any "contract" with an entity operating illegally is invalid. Check with your attorney (and make sure he knows the contractor regulations in your state.) It's long past time to ditch this hack and you won't have to pay him if he's working illegally.

  • Teri Ziegler
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    ksc36, what is that little tool, a sander?
  • ksc36
    5 years ago

    It's a Fein Multimaster. Other brands make a similar tool. It's great for detail sanding.

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