I usually don't disturb small conifers till they have grown a few inches first. However as these are in a very small container, I would leave them together and repot to a bigger pot. I like to let the potting soil dry out a bit so it sort of sticks together, then turn upside down and remove whole thing from pot and place in new bigger pot with more soil. Gently as you can. Good luck.

Thanks. But if I leave the 2 pines next to each other like that they will overcrowd each other as they grow bigger and that’s not good. They are already touching each other as of now. They are about 2 in now. How many inches is a few inches ? Maybe wait until 4-5 in tall?

Probably around 5-6" in height. They need to have trunks that are tough enough to take the stress of pulling apart.

not until the trunks turn brown ... else you will snap those faster than you will break a root ...

check this out.. just for some pix.. i dont believe in rocks in the bottom of pots: https://bonsaitonight.com/2013/03/26/repotting-1-year-old-black-pine-seedlings/

if you insist on something ... i like the idea of just grabbing the whole gob.. and putting it in a bigger pot ... you dont have to bare root for this ...

in tree time.. you have a year or two to do this... you seem to think that trees will require something inside of a few weeks ... most likely fall will be soon enough .. tree time dude ...

imo .. watering is your only real concern til fall ... otherwise.. everything else can be dealt with ...

ken

Right but if they grow together while touching each other like that won’t that cause a whole new different problem? And by the time I pull them out, since they are so close to each other, I’m going to end up ripping part of its roots because it’ll be intermingled with each other. How do I go about this particular issue? I sowed 3 seeds and only 2 germinated, that’s why their in that position just in case you guys are wondering.

i have seen rogue seedlings of sylvestrus.. out in my all sand yard ... look just like that.. for the entire first year.. total growth.. then next year.. they start taking off ...

exactly how big do you think they will get this year ..

yes... pro growers can force more out of them ... but even still.. i would not expect much more than 3 to 6 inches ...

they are basically growing a root mass... for the future growth you can see ... and for that root growth ... is why you hve a need for a bigger pot ... but there still isnt any hurry ...

hi frank .... frank is a pro ... and he would have a couple thousand to play with .. lol .. and if he broke a few .. with his vast experience.. it wouldnt matter to him ...

you only have two .. be patient ...

one year.. i got a bundle of 10 .. eight to 12 inch seedling pines at the soil conservation sale .. and jammed them all into a 2 gal pot ... still rubber banded together ... and life got in the way .. and didnt plant them until fall ... it really wasnt a problem that they were next to each other ... that part of you concern is just moot.. imo ... they all lived ... pines are kinda of a weed tree in the sense that they are hard to kill ... presuming you dont love them to death ... watering being the biggest issue imo ...

those rogue ones in my sand.. got nothing from me.. they were lucky if i didnt walk on them ... but be clear.. come july and august in MI .. in sand.. they got.. .and needed NO WATER ... imo.. the only thing that could kill them in the pot they are in now.. is if you water them.. and keep them too wet ...

of course.. i am exaggerating a bit to make my point ... so be it ...

ken

Well I’m not a pro yet like frank and only have 2 seedlings to play with so I don’t want any risks. Ok then I will keep them in the pot for a while. so then for this Pinus thunbergii keep it on the dryer side? Like first inch of media gets dry then water again? Right now they are still in my room in front of my window where it gets cool because of outdoor air temps. It gets southern exposure but with the window closed I don’t know if they’re getting adequate sunlight. I still can’t bring them out yet because it’s still pretty cold here.

I'm not a pro either. But I had one Picea abies that sprouted in a shallow pan of starting media. It appeared to me to be staying much too wet (a coco coir mix) and the seed husk had the needles pinned together. I dug it out and potted it up in 511 bark mix, a few days ago. It acted like it hardly knew it had been moved. it grew an inch, the needles are now opening and I put it out on the deck today so it can get used to real sun.

Very young seedlings can be moved, if careful and they don't miss a beat. :-)

Nice. I wish I had the guts do it. How many days old was it when you transplanted it? And transplanting in bigger pots or smaller pots better? And you say you put them outside. What were the temperatures during that time?

The seedling was about a week old. It sprouted with another at the edge of an aluminum pan that I earlier had gotten too hot on a heat mat. The other had a nicer top but after a couple of days, shriveled up and died for some reason (damping off?).

So this one was my only chance to get at least get one P. abies, which was my goal. It had a stubborn, hard seat coat that I finally surgically removed with a tweezers and exacto-knife. :-)

Potting up in increments is what I understand is best. IME: Once the tree is separate, in it's own pot, it's easy to later remove it, in a clump and set it into a larger, half filled pot and fill around the outsides. Again, I'm no expert but this is what has worked for me. :-)

Our temps have been in the mid 40's by noon during the day. Would be higher but there's still a fair amount of snow around, mostly in piles, that always modifies things a bit.

I've been moving my plants, around 10:00 am from my lighting area in the basement and setting them inside, on the floor, by the patio door for 5-6 hours, for several days now. I figure window sun is better than my lights any day. :-)

Today, about 12:30, there was no wind and a brilliant sun and with black pots and dark media, everything stayed nice and warm outside on the deck, guessing more like 50's. I also put my starting trays out, with the tiny Thuja seedlings, they felt warm too when I picked them up.

Left them out about an hour and a half, I figured the first time out, didn't want sunburn on tender plants.

That's another reason why I like to get things out early, before the angle of the sun gets real high. Then later, they'll be able to take the high sun.

Heruga,

From my experience working with over 4 million seedlings under one year old, you will have more problems trying to separate them now than leaving them to grow together. We often have plugs with two seedlings in them that enter into a second growing season and they still don't compete with each other. At that age they aren't dominating the soil profile and stealing nutrients from each other because their demand for nutrients is still pretty low.

After a couple months, if you really want to save both, dunk the whole root ball in water until you wash all the soil away and then pull the two apart. Don't be afraid of breaking roots, they will actually put out more roots if you do break some.

I also grow out thousands of seedlings and totally agree with Brandon's comments. Because they develop so little in their first year, it really does little harm for seedlings to be quite thickly sown and left unseparated even until the beginning of the following spring.

I'll agree with the previous comments. One thing about messing with newly germinated conifers is, if you do anything to cause any kind of damage to the roots, stems or needles, they may suffer set backs that they won't soon recover from, if ever.

But on another note, if you can move them without any disturbance or damage to the tender tissue, they will continue on like nothing ever happened.

Better to wait then. More developed seedlings will shrug off disturbance much easier.

I like Brandon's idea about putting the entire root ball in water. That high perlite mix you have will fall apart, exposing the roots allowing you to separate the mass with minimal damage. :-)

Thanks everyone. I am going to wait until fall or next spring to separate the 2 pines and repot. If they don't die during this season of course.

I wouldn't wait too long. It can be very difficult to untangle close neighbors after just six months... I was growing a lot of pines (and firs and spruces) in trays and repotting them as soon as they had done their first round of growth. They don't seem to care about it.

Currently, I'm growing Pinus aristata, P. contorta var. latifolia, P. longaeva, P. nigra 'Austriaca', P. cembra, P. sibirica. Especially with the P. cembra and P. longaeva, I have found that they will grow more quickly if I move them soon.

I decided to go with the higher vote of do not repot now answer.

So here is how my seedlings are currently doing. I think they are growing great. Just one question is.. about watering, do I keep it on the dry side or moist side? I know that these pines naturally inhabit sandy soils in the shores of Japan and they are very drought tolerant but does that trait also apply for seedlings? Do they require more water because they are still very young? Or is it better that they adapt to dry conditions now and then in the future they become more tolerant of drought? The first half inch is dry(the most I can stick my finger in this small pot without damaging roots) so should I be watering again? Or should I let it dry for a while before watering? Please help, this is my first seedling and I do not want to let it die!

While I am not familiar with P thunbergii, it seems that drought tolerance usually refers to established plants. As far as my pine seedlings go, the desert dwellers don't require as much water and don't dry out as fast. For the most part, when my pines are in trade gallon pots, I water them whenever the first half inch to three quarters of an inch of soil is dry. The seedling mix I use changes color when it gets dry, so on the smaller pots, I generally just look to see that everything visible has changed color. Here's a pic of a 1 year old Pinus longaeva I moved when it was very young (like I said, I do that with all of them now). The ones that I left together in small pots are not this big. And that's pretty representative of all of the pines I'm growing.

Any progress with the transplanting or uppotting?

Hi all, I’m fairly new at this but I really want to learn a lot more. Currently I sowed 4 seeds of the Norway Spruce and wanted to know if I should move them apart now or not. I honestly didnt think that the four seeds I sowed would all sprout. any thoughts? Also which Size training pot should I get these babies. I don’t want them to perish. Thanks all for your expertise comments.

Welcome to the forums!

You have to be careful at this stage when transplanting. Any damage to the roots can set them back. And once they're moved, very young seedlings can still be susceptible to damping off disease so watch out for that.

The best method I've found is tip the whole media mass out of the pot and set it in a container of water. Then gently wash all the media off and replant them bare rooted into a new pot. Use a container mix formula that has good drainage. I used the 511 bark mix recipe found on the 'Container growing' forum of this site but also have a bag of container mix on hand. :-)

The other option is to let them grow until mid to late summer when they start to harden off, then up pot basically the same method.

Sorry Bill I failed to see your comment 9 months ago.. but I repotted my 2 pines 2 weeks ago. I was able to separate them rather easily. The whole plant, from the tip of the candles to the bottom of the root was probably around 4 ft. Roots really spread vigorously last year. So I would say leaving 2+ seedlings in the same pot for a whole season would work just fine

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for your reply! I probably will go with your first option. I was wondering what size pots I should put them in? Any suggestions as how deep and wide the pots are best? I also have this bonsai Soil Mix, would that be good to use? Again, thank you for the big help!

Working with them when dormant is probably the safest way, Late summer or early spring. imo

Hi, Gustavo!

I put my Picea abies seedling into a 4" round pot early last season. This spring, I wanted to add another 1" of bark mix as it looked a little low from the rim. So I tipped the contents out of the pot only to find lots of roots already circling around in the bottom.

My tree will be planted outside soon so I'm not worried about it but a quart pot would be a good idea if you plan to raise it up for a year in the pot.

Heruga, what do you think about Gustavo's bonsai mix for growing Picea? I've never used bonsai mix before but from what I understand, it drains fast so you might need to water more often?

Thank you Bill! I actually want to grow them and make them into bonsai. But there is so much scattered information out there that I thought I’d ask for some good expertise. I was thinking of playing the bonsai mix at the bottom and some bonsai soil to maintain moisture.

I don’t think you can go wrong with it since potted plants are generally more prone to overwatering but like you said that mix is very well draining. So unless you don’t have the time to watch for your seedlings often to water them I think it’s fine to use that. Also since you’ll have to place the seedlings in shade for most of the year, drying out shouldn’t be much of a problem.

Gustavo,

you should start a new thread with your questions about bonsai. You'll get more direct answers about what you want to know. I'm sure there are people here that can answer or at least direct you to the places that can.

There's a bonsai forum on this site although I'm not sure how much traffic is on that one.

Thanks for all your answers to both of you! Very much appreciated! I will try to find a bonsai forum. Happy planting!

HERE"S THE LINK

to the bonsai forum. I see it has picked up some since the last time I looked. {:o)

One more question, what would you all consider to be a good brand of soil for replanting twigs and also for planting bonsai in general?

Finally I got my chamaecyparis obtusa to germinate. These are the ones I stratified rather late, inFebruary. Now I just need to keep it alive. Should it stay indoors until the others germinate and gets a little bigger ?

First, congratulations! :-)

Is it warm enough to put them outside?

I would just do what you did last year for your pine seedlings, whatever that was?

Thanks! Well there were only 2 seedlings of my pines that both germinated around the same time in early March, when it was still too cold to put them out so it stayed inside for about a month. This year has been a very weird spring and we’re still getting nights into our 30s so I kinda can’t compare with what I did last year on my pines because weather and timing is a bit different. Also there are still 100+ C. Obtusa seeds in there(9 section flats) so I don’t know if I should keep them inside in warmer temps to encourage germination. If I bring it out too early in the cool weather they may take a while to germinate. Hmm.. tough decision but I think I will keep them indoors for a little longer

Chamaecyparis obtusa germination temperature is listed in my books as 70d F. and you'll want it warmer than that once they sprout.

I’ve been keeping them in a plastic tote placed on top of a heating pad so that should keep it good until I can take it outside.

Hi I’m growing thundebergii and aristata and there both pretty far along at baby stage... I just want some help on what to do next and what you do to them different in fall and winter I’m very new to this and internet is a confusing place I found this form looking for answer originally about transplating because I had one of my artista all up on side and I was worried about it( I end up transplanting; in bonsai soil, right before reading this and left the other 3 left alone) I guess I’m experimenting now with that)

Now that I see what kind of plants you have you should post your own thread over in the SHRUBS FORUM and CACTI & SUCCULENTS forums pertaining to your particular plants.

Enjoy. :-)

Those are pines !

I keep them in their pots for a year at least until I plant it. In the winter it really depends on how cold your winter gets but in my zone 7A I kept my pine seedlings in my unheated garage(with windows). I stuff mulch in a milk crate and would sink my pine pot in there for extra protection. Again, it really depends on where you are and you may or may not have to go this far.

A quick search on the two names given came up with Japanese barberry and Lace aloe.

My bad.

Google will do that to you.

Welcome to the forums Terri.

:-)

Hi All, this is my first post to this forum so my apologies if I'm posting to the wrong thread. (?) I have 7 new Apache pine seedlings that I started in seedling starter pods - they are about 2-3 inches in just a 12 days! As the pods are sitting in a base with water that I have under a humidity dome (on heater pad in south window for sun) when should I move those pods out of that water base to a starter pot? I can pick up the individual pods without disturbing the delicate trunks or roots, but not sure a what point I should do so? I know the dry/wet balance is important... thanks for any help!

I'd do it right now.

Thanks Steve, will do! wish me luck!

For my first transfer to small pots for my Apache Pine seedlings (now about 3" tall) what soil is recommended? i have Jiffy brand seed starting soil (a mix of peat, coconut coir and vermiculite) - or - I've read in a few sites recommend to use a mix of peat and pine bark? or something else? thanks again! I'll post some photos shortly.

One of my new Apache Pine seedlings! yay! Several are popping up now!