I found this online. Not sure how accurate/relevant this is. FWIW, i have asked Store B for their bid.

https://windowpriceguide.com/prices/marvin

http://www.costowl.com/home-improvement/doors-windows-marvin-window-cost.html

Thanks for your feedback. Both stores are reputable (recommended by different sources) and my GC got bids from both, based on my architect’s plan. When I asked to see a bid (we had upgraded from another brand) GC only sent the bid from Store A., and even then, did it reluctantly. When I was at Store A and he was showing the screen options (or any option) he wouldn’t tell me any prices. When I was at Store B, I wanted to know how much the upcharges were, to know if it’s worth it. (To go w/ clear screen; or to put solar blinds on the skylights, for example). My kitchen door is very protected, so I wanted to know the price of a wood door that I could paint vs. the Marvin. Store B wasn’t touting anything as a discount. He was just giving me info so I could make an informed choice. Thoughts?

Your builder has a standard markup on materials to cover his responsibility ordering, coordinating delivery, etc. Don’t confuse anything a store tells you with the price you will actually pay from a builder. It’s not the same and will never be the same. If this is a change from what was originally specified, there will be a change order on top of that as well.

Is that common for him to mark things up twice? My architect said that not all contractors take the contractor discount, and then tack on an extra 20% at the end. Seems like I'll be paying $3200 for a door that costs $2000 (or possibly less since it's a basic door). So a 60% markup. Seems high.

Only way to know is to look at your contract and what type of contract it is and what is written for material purchases, upgrades and or change orders. Marvin dealers get a discount from Marvin based n their level of annual sales volume, not all are the same. As far as how the retailers sell, markup, or discount is all up to them.

Thanks Millworkman. I am revewing the unsigned contract. Should the contract call out the cost of materials etc? This one has a long list of what’s included, then the total number,, and then the 20% tacked off. I’m suprised there’s no detail to the numbers and the GC is so reluctant to share any of that info. The bid is much higher than the estimate he gave about a month ago, and I’ve been trying to figure out if there are things to cut to bring the cost in line, which is why I’m looking at these details. (I.e. see if I can swap out the Marvin door for a wood door). FWIW, when I remodeled a bathroom previously, that contractor broke down the cost by electrical, plumber etc plus had sections for different materials. I once got a bid from a design/build guy who handed me a multi-page spreadsheet with a million line items for everything, down the drywall materials and other basic materials. This bid has no detail at all. I guess it’s time to find a GC who is more transparent in his bid. And hopefully one who doesn’t mark up materials 60%.

This is very confusing. You say that you are getting quotes from "Stores" - who are these stores - like lumber yards?

If you are buying the windows then I assume that you only hiring the contractor to install windows that you are purchasing? But then you seem to be expecting the GC to include the cost of the windows?

If you are looking to cut costs why don't you discuss options with your contractor? Marvin windows are great but they are expensive - when I was replacing windows I just decided that they were too expensive and went with another option that fit my requirements and budget.

Dennis, sorry this is confusing. I’ve been trying to keep this brief so it doesn’t sound like a soap opera. These ”stores” are window dealers with good reputations. Sorry for using the wrong word. They could install if I were doing replacements; here GC would install.

I’ve tried discussing window options. GC didn’t like the Sierra Pacific that the architect spec’d, and recommended Marvin. When I mentioned my concern about the cost, he had no suggestions for other brands. Based on arch’s input, I called a Kolbe dealer to set up an appointment. He said don’t choose Kolbe expecting them to be cheaper than Marvin. (He also said, in passing, that there could be a bigger difference depending on the dealer’s discount) So No Kolbe. GC agreed to get a second bid on the Marvins. GC’s bid came in much higher than estimate from a month ago. No details. I’ve been talking to my architect about ways to cut costs. We cut a few big things. In terms of windows, I thought maybe do a wood french door instead of the Marvin. I went back to Store B because they are more helpful describing the pros and cons of the choices. But the guy at Store B started volunteering prices that were much lower than Store A. Previously, when I’d asked GC if Store B’s bid came in lower, he said they used the same software to get the prices. (I.e. did not directly answer the question).

BTW, which window brand did you choose instead of Marvin. I want a wood interior and no vinyl anywhere. Architect spec’d wood interior and alum exterior. (I guess I could go with fiberglass exterior, like Marvin Ultrex. But again, I’d want to know the price difference so I could make an educated choice, and that level of details seems hard to come by). Thanks for your help.

You’re cutting peanuts when you should be lopping off appendages. The wrong things are being paid attention to if you are over budget. It’s the whole, not a little part.

GreenDesigns, thanks for your perspective. It helps. We did lop off a few big things. I also thought I could save by cutting some smaller things that are "nice to have" but not necessities. (i.e. the kitchen's external door is protected and the current wood divided-light french door is 20+ years old and has never had problems. So I'm not sure there's a great value in paying an extra $2K for a Marvin door vs. replacing with a new single-light wood french door. Just as one example). Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

So I will try to be brief also. You asked what I ended up installing - Andersen 400 series. I also talked to the two major Boston distributors (one has since gone out of business) as well as other sources and one manufacturer's showroom. I did discuss relative pricing of different windows and options. I got two quotes - one for Marvin and then a second for Andersen I could go into more details if there is really interest.

Basically I think your issues are being caused by your attempt to insert yourself between the GC and the distributor and determine and manipulate what the GC is paying for materials. I don't think that is really any of your business and will just cause both of them to become defensive and seem uncooperative. That's my brief opinion - no offense intended - just trying to cut to the chase.

You say that you have one estimate and one quote and the latter is higher? Were they for the exact same windows/options? Or did they go up because inflation? Or because of the added GC/distributor costs in pricing options?

You are either going to do the shopping and take the risks or you let your GC do what he is paid for. You also have to be comparing the same apple to apple. BTW A wood interior and aluminum exterior window is by far the best choice IMO so maybe stick to what your architect suggested and go shopping for something else.

Dennisgil and Patricia, thanks so much for your comments. My intention wasn’t to insert myself, but I see how it looks Iike that. Yes, his estimate came in higher. Even backing out the things that were added, it‘s about 15% higher. It was a lump sum bid, so no breakdown. He said all the subs were about 10% higher. (though as this bid process was going along, I asked how the bids were coming in, and he said the roofer was on target with his expectations.). At this point, I guess I should forget about the estimate. (I thought getting one would be good, a sanity check, to know if we were on the right track. Even that was on the high side but not a deal breaker). So I guess I need to just focus on the current bid.

What do you do when the bid comes in higher than you wanted? My architect’s advice is to look for “relief valves.” We cut a couple things that had been added on. I was also looking for things to cut like the ”nice to have” items. i.e. don’t expand the size of the bathroom window, just replace. (Admittedly this won’t save a fortune,but finding several of these things will move in the right direction). How do you do this when it’s a lump sum bid? When I remodeled my guest bath 10 years ago, that GC had a breakdown by plumbing, electrician, etc. She also was happy having me source materials (though everything had to be onsight the first day). How can I make an informed decision on materials without the price? I.e. How much is the upcharge for the “clear screens?“ I’d like to know, so I can decide if it’s worth it. (The upcharge on the retractable screen over the sink is definitely not worth it to me, for example). FWIW, on the french door, my architect said yes the door w/ alum exterior is better and for $1800-2000 he said it was worth it, compared to the $700 wood door.. He wasn’t sure the alum door was worth it if I’m paying $3200. With all these prices adding up, I’m not sure the alum door is needed, since the existing door fared fine and had the bonus (to me) of allowing me to paint the exterior, to create a design element. These are small examples, I know, but even if these small things only add up to $10K that’s still money from my pocket. Am I so wrong trying to save that? Previously, GC made the hard sell to go with custom cabinets, and then last week the hard sell to go with his custom cabinet guy, who seems excellent, like a master woodworker, but....I live in a nice but not super $$$ neighborhood. My architect recommended his own custom cabinet guy (who has done work for arch’s house) and that bid was about 15% less (I need to get an apples—to-apples bid; hopefully within the week)

I feel like I’m being asked to just trust his judgement and go along with whatever they say. How do I find the right balance of being an educated home owner making informed decisions vs. a cheapskate micromanager? FWIW, my process to date has been to work with my architect to get his guidance. He wanted to see the bid to review the costs, and was disappointed that it was a lump sum bid with few price details. Thanks for your help.

While I do agree that inserting yourself between your GC and his suppliers can lead to uncomfortable situations, you do have every right to ask questions. At the end of the day, it's your money that the GC is spending. There is also nothing wrong with worrying about the little things. Little expenses add up. Quickly. I'm sorry if you addressed this, but why doesn't your GC like the originally specified windows? Push back on him about this, especially if the Marvins are more expensive. Like I said before, these are your windows that you're paying for. Your GC (or a sub) is just installing them.