webuser_929476049

Sweet Pegge

weekend gardener
May 9, 2019


Hello! I've been a silent lurker for several years, and this is my first post. This site has been such a great resource for me, and I'd like to contribute. I live in the Houston area, zone 9.


I found very little information about the Pioneer rose Sweet Pegge, so I'd like to share my experiences so far. I purchased this rose from ARE this year. Because my yard has too much shade and too many thirsty tree roots, I frequently plant new roses in containers. If the rose does well, I'll leave it where it is, bumped up to a larger container if needed. If the rose sulks, I'll plant it in the ground and see how it fares. Sweet Pegge has only been in her container less than 2 months, and these are her first blooms. I plan to update as she grows larger and shows her true personality. Unfortunately my phone doesn't accurately capture the true colors. She is more red than pink.


Comments (47)

  • weekend gardener

    I'm still learning how to post photos. Here are a few more. Also, does anyone know how Sweet Pegge is pronounced? Is it like "Peggy" or "Peg"?

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I have her too! New, just bloomed this year, darker red than pics show blooms did not last more than a day. Canes are very lax and spill from container.


    She does have a light, rosy fragrance.


    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • weekend gardener

    My blooms have lasted several days and remain very cupped. So far only one bloom opened enough that I could see the stamens. I like the fragrance--sweet, but with a spicy hint. She's growing out more than up.

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex

    Very nice. I miss my roses. I can't grow them well on my limestone hill. Maybe I should try them in a container.

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  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Wantonamara, you should definitely try some in large container...I have more than 10 in planters, including sweet pegge.


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  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    What a pretty rose. I like its lax habit. WG, are those fabric pots I spy? How do you like them?

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  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex

    My problem is also that I live off of rainwater harvesting 100% so I am limited in H2O when things get tough. I do not irrigate my ornamentals and keep the number of irrigated plants to minimum. I have to enjoy things vicariously.

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  • weekend gardener

    Hi Vaporvac, yes that is a fabric pot. That particular pot holds a puny Mary Magdalene rose. I planted it as a band a couple of years ago and she's barely grown. I've been wanting to try her in a different location to see if she improves. I have a Savannah rose in another fabric pot and it's doing really well. I've replaced several of my fabric pots with terra-cotta containers for purely aesthetic reasons. They've actually held up really well.

  • modestgoddess z7 MD

    thanks for sharing this rose with us, I've been looking for information on it

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  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas

    Weekend Gardner - You should join the Houston Rose Society. I live out of town so dont go to the meetings, but get the monthly newsletter. It is a good organization and many members are available to help you and answer questions at any time. My email membership is either $12 or $15. You can see information on their monthly meetings on Utube.

    Judith

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  • weekend gardener

    Thank you Judith! That’s a fantastic idea. I always had (foolishly) assumed that HRS was focused only on hybrid teas, and since very few of my roses belong to this class I never really looked into their organization. I’ll be sure to look closer this time. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas

    You are welcome! Being out of town, I dont know many of the members, but I do know Baxter and Patsy Williams - they are super people and any of the members I have chatted with online are so helpful - their newsletter is great! Good luck!

    Judith

    weekend gardener thanked alameda/zone 8/East Texas
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    Sweet Pegge looks lovely. I don’t see an entry for her at all on HMF. For those who have bought her at ARE, is she still doing well for you? Any updates? She doesn’t look too thorny from pictures posted so far. My yard is so tiny all my roses need to be on the low thorn end of things.

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • buttoni

    Yes, your Sweet Pegge is lovely. Since my real name is Peggy, I'll assume it is pronounced that way (for personally aesthetic reasons). I've never grown roses in containers. Perhaps I'll try it out one of these day. :) Many British gardeners plant roses in containers. A lot of Britain deals with the limestone we deal with in Central Texas, so that's probably why.

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  • weekend gardener

    It's probably time to give an update. Sweet Pegge has thrown out long, thin canes and looks a bit gangly now. Maybe it's stretching for more sunlight (definitely too shaded), but none of my other roses in the same area are showing a similar growth pattern. She's bloomed repeatedly over the summer, but not in large flushes. I love her blooms, though. The flowers stay cupped, though slightly smaller in our brutal heat, don't shatter quickly, and have a very nice fragrance. It's remained fairly healthy. Over the next few weeks I plan to rearrange several roses, and this one will likely be potted into a larger container and moved to a sunnier location. I'll try to take and post photos this weekend.

  • weekend gardener

    Yikes. I was dismayed when I moved it onto the driveway for the photo session. It had been growing through and supported by neighboring plants, and I thought it looked somewhat graceful in its lankiness. On its own it just looks sad. Please don’t let these photos dissuade you from considering Sweet Pegge as a possible new rose for your garden. I purchased it this spring, so it’s still young, and apart from keeping it watered and only sporadically fertilized it hasn’t been coddled.

    The only current bloom, fried. Anyone know what’s causing the new foliage to crisp on the edges?

    Sigh. I’m a terrible rose mom.

    The largest green cane (is it considered a basal?) is one of two very long canes that grew since this spring.

  • weekend gardener


    There are thorny and smooth sections on the canes. Not too bad, but they curve downward a bit which can snag.

    Above is the thorniest section.

    This newer growth is much smoother.

    Advice? Should I pot up, place it in a sunnier location and wait to see if it fills out or prune it back to see if it regrows bushier? Does it want to climb?

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    weekend gardener, Thanks for the update and taking the time to post so many pictures! Really low thorn count for a rose, which is great. That crisp bloom and crisp very young leaves look like some of mine when the temps get over 90 and esp with water stress during the heat. It does seem like a climber, but maybe it was just reaching out further among your other plants than it otherwise would on its own? I might try trimming her back to see if she bushes out. The ARE website does say she will spill over a container so perhaps a short climber? I don’t like Hybrid Tea shaped rose bushes and Sweet Pegge certainly is the opposite of HT habit. I wonder what her genetic heritage is?

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    and she seems very disease resistant!

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I have her as well, and for me she stopped blooming when the temps hit 100. The canes are very lax and spill out of the planter. Some blackspot. I am thinking of putting her in a taller planter and let her canes cascade down.

    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    Rekha, spilling over a planter sounds beautiful. Post pictures if you decide to do this with her. I would love to see how it looks.

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • weekend gardener

    Rekha, is yours in a full or nearly full sun position? If so, is yours bushier than mine? The canes are so long and flexible that it would be so easy to train, but I also love the look of roses cascading over a planter. I’m just afraid that unless I can find a very tall container the roses will end up laying on the ground. I, too, would love to see photos of your rose! I’m planning my first trip to the Antique Rose Emporium gardens later this month. I’m hoping to see more mature roses to get a better idea of how they’ll grow.

  • weekend gardener

    Stephanie, thanks for the advice! I think I’ll give it a trim and see what happens. Yes, it does seem to be healthy. I have several of ARE’s Pioneer roses (Star of the Republic, Mier y Teran, Roemer’s Hip Happy, and of course Sweet Pegge) and all are really clean. I fully expect to return home from my ARE visit with more Pioneers!

  • weekend gardener

    Buttoni, I think you’re probably correct in the pronunciation. It’s a very nice name! I adore the look of British gardens. I can never hope mine would ever look so verdant and lush with our brutal heat, but I’m happy to enjoy them vicariously through other poster’s photos.

  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    Weekend gardener, Oh so lovely that you get to visit ARE in person. I am jealous! If they have a Sweet Pegge in their display garden please, please get a picture to post here. I have Star of the Republic and it threw out some long flexible canes too. I let it stay flopped out horizontally, like natural pegging, so it would push laterals, which it did, but they are long too! I think it’s going to be a monster. Now I will get more blooms from it this fall with the extra laterals though. All my roses are just setting buds so almost nothing blooming at the moment. I wonder if SotR and SP have some common genes, since growth seems similar with long floppy canes? But all my roses are babies so hard to say what they will do from looking at them now. That’s why I am jealous of you getting to see their mature shrubs :-) I am sure people here would love a thread with a photo tour of their display gardens if you are up for it.

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

    I just looked at my SotR and the cane that was long and flexible is now fat and hard. Plus I see it only threw laterals near the center of the plant. It is already 6 feet tall and been in the ground only 11 months. So my one Pioneer Rose is very healthy and vigorous! I think you can’t go wrong getting more of them. Close up of horizontal cane that threw about 4 or 5 laterals. And full bush shot against a 6 foot tall fence. I will try to train it as a tall 6-7 foot shrub.

    weekend gardener thanked Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Weekend gardener, I will take a picture and post this weekend, but my canes are not that long. I visited ARE a few months ago, did not see sweet pegge in the display gardens.


    EEta: its it's in full sun.

    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR

    Stephanie, your Star of the Republic gives me hope. Mine is next to a tree sucking all the goodies. I have to give it more love.

    weekend gardener thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • weekend gardener

    Stephanie, my Star of the Republic is growing just like yours only younger and smaller. I took this photo yesterday. It’s growing in a container under, up and through a kumquat tree. I think the blooms are so pretty.



    Rekha, I'm sorry that Sweet Pegge wasn’t growing in the display gardens. It would have been nice to see what a mature specimen could look like. Since yours is in full sun, it’s probably growing the “correct“ way. I’ll try to do better by mine!

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Weekend gardener, the weekend was hectic and I could not take pics, will do so next time I have a chance. Mine grows real strange as well, spilling down the sides, nothing upwards. I dont want a climber for this position, so will havhave to see what I can do. Try pruning the long cane to see if you encourage better growth. Mine is in scorching sun and gets burnt.

    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Here is a pic, pl ignore the weeds :) I dont think mine will work as a climber....the growth habit is really strange, nothing in the center and canes want to be parallel to the ground...


    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • weekend gardener

    Thank you for the pic Rehka! Except for the two impossibly long and awkward canes on mine, yours looks similar. Maybe a little larger too. How long have you had yours? I’ve already moved mine to a sunnier location. I’ll wait to trim it because it has has small buds and I want to enjoy those flowers. Maybe this rose just has to grow through an awkward phase and will start to fill out in a year or two. I’ll be patient with it.

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I got her this spring. If she blooms for you part shade, you may want to keep her there? My flowers kept getting burnt in summer. If she does well in part shade, I might move her as well...

    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • strawchicago

    weekendgardener: I have Mary Magdalene as own-root since 2011. I planted the tiny own-root right smack into my thick heavy clay and it's the best bloomer in my experience with 120 varieties of own-root roses. :Potting soil is too light for own-root-shrub roses. That's how own-root William Morris and St. Cecelia died on me: I kept it too long in the pot and roots could not get solid enough to survive my zone 5a winter (after transferring them into the ground). With growing roses in pots, they develop thicker & more woody & solid root if I mix 1/2 potting soil with bagged compost, plus gypsum. Bagged compost here is a bit of cow manure and mostly black clay or black peat (very dense & heavy), so gypsum is added to help with drainage. In 5 months, a band size can grow to 2-gallon solid root with that approach, along with topping with Rose-Tone once a month, and weekly diluted SOLUBLE fertilizer. Solid soil = solid root, fluffy soil = wimpy root. :Potting soil alone is too fluffy & light to produce solid root for Austin roses' zillion petals. Bouquet this Sept. with mostly Austin roses, they like my heavy clay.


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  • weekend gardener

    Rekha, it’s bloomed decently over the summer in only part sun, but the down side might be it’s strange long canes. My blooms have only recently been scorched. I’ve moved it to an area with more morning sun with afternoon shade and will see what happens.

    Strawchicago, that’s really interesting about potting soil being too light to encourage strong root growth. My Mary Magdalene has never thrived and it’s one of the roses I plan to move this fall. I keep lots of roses in containers, mostly because there are too many tree roots that compete for water. But, I might just try her in the ground (thick gumbo clay here) and see if it helps. I’ve tried potting soil mixed with leaf mould compost and it became very compacted in the containers. I didn’t use gypsum though, or any thing else to lighten it or to increase aeration or drainage. Thanks for that suggestion!

  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    I wonder if roses need different type of mix...I used to have terrible results with other plants on miracle grow type mixes, so I started making my own, very light mix. about 1/3rd each or perlite, pine bark fines or compost and coco coir. Most plants seem to love it, for the first time, i could get a house plant to flower. Mixed results with roses...brother cadfael, MEC, Sharifa Asma etc are thriving. Some are chugging along in various stages ranging from Ok to merely alive, Desdemona about to kick the bucket. Maybe experiment with a more water retentive mix...

    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I think that in that mix they would need a water soluble fertilizer. Has always been my issue with potted roses. Mine has composted manure as well as Rose tone in it but that only lasts for a small while. The issue I have had with water retention mixes is that with all our rain it can drown the roots if they are in larger pot. So the roots rot. This happens Less in a smaller pot but can occur with early Cold Spring rains if I put them out.

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  • Rekha A 9a Houston area

    Thanks Vapor, i do use a liquid fish fertilizer mixed with a bit of superthrive. What type of fertilizer do you suggest?


    I agree about the rain, that is why i started making my mix very light. I also moved some out of the rain under my patio so I can better control.



    weekend gardener thanked Rekha A 9a Houston area
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    I think if they do not always get rain one of the mixes would do fine. I always add extra perlite to my mixes regardless as they do tend to compact over time. I'm terrible about fertilizing, but when I do I just use a synthetic fertilizer .... the blue granules that one mixes with water. I use it very dilute with rain water that I collect. I discovered the Walmart has one very cheap compared to the name brands. I use it on my potted plants also. Established plants can take a bit more, but you don't run the risk of burning the roots as much with a liquid. I'm sure you know all this. I've never used FF or superthrive. One thing I did do this year on my baby potted roses is top them with worm castings that I got for cheap during winter sales. They seemed to like it. : ))

    weekend gardener thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • strawchicago

    I drill extra holes in my pots and elevate them on bricks for better drainage in heavy rain. Mix in perlite (zero nutrients) helps with drainage in rooting roses, but Austin roses demand more nutrients for zillion petals.

    My best flowering in pot was Sonia Rykiel (zillion of petals), potting soil and topped with my black gumbo clay, using MG-soluble fertilizer for roses. 15 blooms as 1st-year-own-root in a dinky 2-gallon pot. The zillion petals require DENSE and WETTER soil.

    But polyantha, hybrid musk, and tiny-leaves Austin prefer a fluffier, faster drainage .. perlite helps with these. WARNING ABOUT GYPSUM, see below, re-post here:

    Gypsum makes my clay drier, but my soil test recommended gypsum. My clay is deficient in calcium, due to high magnesium plus leaching of calcium in heavy rain. Soil test registered super-high in magnesium, magnesium is what makes clay sticky. A friend in Texas told me certain regions in Texas is so high in magnesium that it discolors the water.

    When it's dry & hot, my black-gumbo-clay turns rock hard into big chunks of sticky clay (the size of oranges). I still have to use a knife to scrape off sticky clay from my shoes. Last evening I used 1 1/2 HUGE bags of gypsum (40 lbs. for $5 at Menards), to break up clay in advance for next spring planting. I learn my lesson to put gypsum MONTHS in advance, after killing 2 own-root roses with gypsum's instant acid (sulfate). Gypsum is so acidic that it breaks down hard-clay immediately, BUT it also destroy roots if applied at planting time."

    weekend gardener thanked strawchicago
  • strawchicago

    Weekend gardener: I check on my Mary Magdalene rose (dark-green leaves, set of 5-leaflet) and MANY THISTLES mean it likes ALKALINE & EXCELLENT DRAINAGE AND DROUGHT TOLERANT. Such rose won't like being in a pot, since pot tends to accumulate acidic rain water. Drought-tolerant and alkaline-preferred roses DO NOT LIKE being in pots. I planted Mary Magdalene right below my roof-overhang (blocking out 90% of rain-water) on purpose. It's 100% healthy for the past 9 years, but recently I dumped 5-gallon of rain-water on it, and it broke out in minor black-spot. Rain here is acidic at pH 4.5

    Own-root Mary Magdalene PREFERS alkaline .. it was most happy when watered with my alkaline-tap water at pH 9. I constantly top alkaline stuff on it: horse manure at pH 8, red-lava-rocks, or rock-hard gumbo-black-clay to buffer acidic rain.


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  • weekend gardener

    Your Mary Magdalene is gorgeous! So full and lush and healthy. I've read that some people find the fragrance unpleasant, but to me it smells just like sweet licorice candy. I've never checked my soil or rain water pH, but I've read that most soils in my area are alkaline. I'll plant mine in the ground in a few weeks and hope that she'll be happier in her new location. Thank you for all your help!

  • alameda/zone 8/East Texas

    Straw, you are a wealth of knowledge - glad to see you posting again! How do you know which roses prefer more alkaline conditions? Or are more drought tolerant? I have read David Austins are more "water hogs". Your Mary Magdalene is gorgeous! Is this just the Austins that can be particular about these conditions? Would love to know which ones so I can try to give them what they want.

    Judith

    weekend gardener thanked alameda/zone 8/East Texas
  • strawchicago

    Judith: Thank God I came back JUST IN TIME to save important info. which I spent 4 years researching in Organic rose (along with Jim from PA, Khalid from Pakistan and Jess from South Africa, Lavenderlace from Texas, Vaporvac from Ohio, Floweraremusic from WA, Kelly from MN, and a few Canadian rose growers). I came back thanks to Floweraremusic notifying that someone has questions which I can answer. Thank God I bumped up the vital info. in Organic rose BEFORE Houzz deleted all the old threads. The below post will answer your question. Feel free to ask me any questions in the below post:

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5801279/best-own-root-roses-for-your-type-of-soil-planting-zone-and-rainfall#n=23

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  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    This is so strange. I can still access and search old posts at least to 2007 and I think maybe 2003/4. I Houzz deleting these posts. I also have all my old Bookmarks before they changed to saved posts. Perhaps try entering through Gardenweb rather than Houzz.

    weekend gardener thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • strawchicago

    Vaporvac: I saved many gardenweb links in my HMF journal, but all those Gardenweb links CAN NO LONGER BE ACCESSED. Did you save the links in organic rose where I listed the source and ratio of fertilizer, from rose-tissue analysis done by University CA at Davis? From the top of my head, I remember it's equal amount of nitrogen to potassium, 1/2 calcium, 1/10 phosphorus, and 1/10 magnesium. There's extensive research and links to back up that ratio .. all are deleted. Organic rose forum is deleted down to only 1 page, but Rose forum is kept longer at 6 pages, the rest are deleted by Houzz.

    weekend gardener thanked strawchicago
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

    This is outrageous!!!! When I initially looked they were all there..... gone now. However, when I went into my Bookmarks I can access the posts that are there from the ORF. For example: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2132427/your-favorite-roses-make-roses-more-winter-hardy



    weekend gardener thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

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