I actually have all three of those varieties. Lady of Shalott can be a climber and is a rather large shrub when happy. Mine tops out in the 6 to 8 ft range. Tranquility appears to be a more compact variety growing to about 4 to 5 ft. It has white flowers that have been smaller than the other two varieties. Lichfield Angel is rather large and sprawly, to about 6 ft here. It is a creamy white with an apricot wash. Its petal count, color, and flower form vary with the seasons. All three of these varieties are decent to quite good, at least in my yard. Good luck.

Thank you for that review. I'm a bit colder than you, but I was also curious about winter dieback. I should have asked that in my original question.

Dianela, your roses are gorgeous! I also have LOS and Tranquility, but they were both new gallon roses last year. LOS didn't need much trimming after this winter, but for some reason seems to be leafing out slower than other roses.

Thank you ac. Some roses start a bit slower but LOS will porobably do great one it gets going this year.

I hope so, Dianela - I've got her on my tower closest to the road! She did give me 3-4 lovely blooms last year, so here's hoping!

I have a hedge of Lady of Shalott, it's one of my hardier (and favorite) DA varieties. Interesting to read the difference of z6 to 5. With my shorter growing season it never quite gets the energy to try to be a climber, which is nice. Mine grow about 4 1/2 ' tall with some longer canes maybe as long as 6'. Still it has really strong and thick canes, some of which come through winter with a good 3 1/2' left. Great repeat bloomer, holds up well to rain, heat & humidity.

Lichfield Angel grows about 3-4' for me, a full and attractive bush. It's a creamy white and I love the color. Blooms in flushes, reliable but not a prolific bloomer. I'd say it loses about a third of its height in the winter.

Tranqullity was a terrible black-spotter for me, which is funny because it's advertised as extremely disease resistant. It completely defoliated and spent all it's energy trying to grow leaves instead of blooming - I removed it after the 3rd year. Black spot weakens a lot of plants but despite constant defoliating it was a strong grower and came through winter very well. It had an upright growth habit, mixed well with modern roses. The flowers were a gorgeous pure white but discolored with any rain.

p.s. mine are all grafted with the grafts at least 3" below soil line.

This is all great info. I had gathered Tranquillity would be shrubbier than Lichfield from initial info. I guess I will just have to pick a spot and see how they behave. We have hot humid summers, so hoping that Tranquillity is not too dirty when it blooms. Maybe I should plant this farther away in the garden, so it's not seen up close. Sometimes Poseidon looks dirty here if we get a lot of rain. I just find Austin tags very misleading or too generalized. Some of my Austin's are vigorous & others have stayed a lot smaller than I had hoped. I have a spot right by my front steps that needs a new rose and the colouring of Lichfield or Tranquillity would be ideal there.

@dianela - your photos look great! Thanks for posting them.

My zone is very different from yours but we have hot and humid summers in common. I grow Lichfield Angels as climbers on an 8’ obelisk. I know their blooms do nod so it hopefully will work out OK. I grow Lady of Shalott as shrubs at the back of the bed as they can get pretty tall and have the tendency to climb. I gave them hard pruning in the winter so they stayed approx. 4.5” for me in the hottest time of summer. Both LA and LOS have relatively large size blooms among all Austins I have (18 types). They are attractive blooms I think you made the excellent choice.

Thanks for the input - If it wasn't for winter kill, I would have some very large roses. Our summer growing conditions really can pump out some big roses. It's the heat, humidity, regular rain and the longer hours of sunlight that do it here. But winter keeps them in check. Purchasing LOS was a no brainer for me. She has been on my wish list for a while now. But Lichfield & Tranquillity were not, so now I'm trying to see where I can work them in. I want to give them enough space, but not so much that it looks weird. Then the height comes into play if I put one near my front steps. Oh why do I keep buying roses that I do not need?

Blondie “need” is not needed when adding some awesome roses to your garden. I think placing Tranquility a bit in the back would be a good idea since it is so vigorous and also any discoloration will be less apparent.

Zzg do you have any pictures of your obelisk? I would love to see lichfield as a climber.

To echo Dianela, "need" is very different from "have room for". The heart and eyes have needs too.

I have all three roses, and like ratdogheads said, there's a lot of difference by just one zone. My Lady of Shalott is planted in my zone 4 pocket and after four years is just scraping up to be around 3' tall. It survives in that spot so it's a keeper and I dearly love the true apricot color of the blooms, but it's not big by any stretch under those conditions. Tranquillity is also in its third year and hasn't gotten above knee height yet in a typical zone 5 spot, but it's also part sun. I get occasional blooms that are nice but nothing to write home about. Lichfield Angel is the "biggest" at mayyyybe waist height, but it doesn't get big for me either in a normal zone 5 spot and average sun. It's still approaching its third year so it might start to be an actual shrub this year, but I don't think any of these roses are a monster in our zones.

Put them wherever you like them and know that they'll all have the perversity to ignore what they're supposed to do. Just for cussedness they'll probably be the wrong height for that spot but if they're too big I just peg the canes downward and it works for me. Flip a coin and give them a try!

Cynthia

Dianela, my Litchfield Angels were planted this spring. Still quite short - approx 1.5’ tall, in a triangle placement around the obelisk. No flowers yet. The reason I know their blooms nod is because I saw about 30 of them mass planted at my local botanical garden that all of them exhibited this character. The nodding form is beautiful, so is upright (like Queen of Sweden), not a case of one being better than the other - just different, that’s why I trained them as short climbers so I can sniff the blooms easily.

I agree with Ratdogheads on Lady of Shalott. Mine is about 4' tall and has no problem coming through the winter, but I do put a half bag of mulch on the base and the graft is buried 3-4". This will be it's third summer. LOS is my favorite tied with Jude and Munstead. I would like to hear about your best roses in zone 5 as I'm always on the lookout!

I have a very different zone than you and very different conditions but do grow L of S. In the heat of summer, her flowers turn very orange and then eventually soften. Bright orange roses are my least favorite but she is planted on my side yard within full view of my neighbor's kitchen window. They LOVE L of S. Right now, she has canes already over 6 feet in length so for me, she gets to be a big girl.

I do use plant supports on her, not that she necessarily needs them but to keep her in check. She is next to a driveway and a walkway so I just don't want her attacking people going up the walkway (me mostly) or attacking the cars coming in and out of the driveway.

She used to have a tall tree partially shading her in summer but that very diseased tree was cut down last winter. So now she is in full sun, facing south and next to cement. It was 106 F here yesterday so I know the cement was much hotter than that. The asphalt was melting on the street yesterday afternoon. We shall see how she does. I may have to move her or get rid of her if she ends up frying (poor thing).

I have her next to an ornamental flowering pomegranate (Ki-Zakuro) next to her and they play very well together. The mingling of the flowers are so pretty! Wish L of S was behind the tree as it would help to shade her, but it is way too late now, unfortunately.

Wow, what an incredible garden you have, dianela! Just breathtaking.

I have LoS espaliered on a 10ft wide length of wire fencing held by t-posts. She could easily eat the fence. I try to bend her canes and keep the laterals trimmed after flowering to promote more flowers. She likes a lot of water and fertilizer here. I have many giant Live Oaks and one has been growing a ton and shading out LoS so I will have to move her whole setup soon. I had way more blooms when she was in full sun all day here. Now she is getting a lot of afternoon shade. I got her in 2015.

Thank you very much Noseo, I was very lucky I had a very wet spring and they really gave me a good show. Everything is a lot less impressive now that the heat set in and the Japanese beetles have arrived, ughhh they are horrible.

@Thistlethrower - I'm still evaluating a lot of my roses for winter hardiness. I'm going into my fourth year here. I had some that survived the brutal winter of 2017, but look worse this year after a not so bad winter. I end up cutting everything back to almost the ground come spring anyways. We get a lot of freeze/thaw cycles and the canes usually are not great. Even if they look mostly green, they end up spotty or cankered. So it's better to just cut them all back. So far for the Austin's the ones that show the most hardiness or vigour come spring are: Crocus Rose, Strawberry Hill, Teasing Georgia, Mary Rose, Charlotte, the Lady Gardener & Gertrude Jekyll. But some of these were new last year. And most of the roses do not grow too large here either. A "climber" for me is maybe 6 feet by October.

As for everyone else's comments, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm very excited to see LOS bloom, I like bright colours and I love Pat Austin. But Pat is not that vigorous here, so I'm counting on LOS for more oomph!

@Nipstress - It so true that I might as well plant them wherever, and just see what they do, because they will do what they want anyways. I appreciate your sizing comments, because we seem to have very similar climates and winter kill issues.

My Lady of Shalott finally is coming into bloom. These are between 3 and 6 years old, and there are 13 shrubs here. No winter protection but usually they get substantial snow cover...in fact they get battered and buried with heavy, wet, salt laden snow from snow plows.

I have LoS and it’s first flush this year was a nice apricot. However, the second flush has been much more pink with some apricot undertones. It is interesting to see these different colors. The cut flowers are from the first flush. Second flush shown on the bush a few days ago when all the flowers had this same pink color.

Hi Stephanie, that's also what mine does! Glad you pointed that out. I'd almost posted another photo from last year to show the difference. For most of the summer it's a softer color, although never what I would call washed out.

I commented on your post yesterday & it seems to have disappeared? Love the hedge of LOS! That would certainly catch my attention if I was driving down your street. It must be a great rose to have that many of them.

I just love the different colour variations you see in this rose. It's a real bonus that it's also hardy & healthy! I planted mine in a bed near Molineaux & Morden Sunrise, then yesterday I planted Roald Dahl on the opposite side of those. I think I like the idea of the orange, peach & yellows together. Will have to see how it works.

Hallo, I think all those apricots, peaches and yellows will be fabulous together! Currently Golden Celebration is my favorite rose that I currently have. It is just the richest, buttery yellow with an amazing fragrance too. So I am very excited about your color scheme for this bed :-) Please post pictures as the season progresses. Roald Dahl is one I wanted to get, instead of Lady of Shallot, except it was harder to find since new introduction. I would love to see pictures of the two blooms side by side this year, if you get a chance, to see how they compare. The pictures online seem to show them as very similar. Maybe RD has more yellow undertones and LoS more pink tones?

I will try to remember to post comparable shots of the two. The Roald Dahl looks very promising. It's loaded with buds. I also planted Golden Celebration this spring - in a different area. I'm excited to see this one too. Heck I'm super excited to see any blooms at this point. It's been a long winter and a cool spring. Nanadoll - has a giant Golden Celebration with beautiful pictures on the seasonal thread. Mine just started to show slivers of colour on the buds. I'm in the check on roses multiple times a day mode to see what's going on!

Here is a grouping of Roald Dahl that I planted last summer. It didn't bloom much last year. It's considerably more yellow than LoS, Looking at these pictures I see shades of pink that I don't see irl. Might be that the color of the leaves is throwing off the color balance. The foliage is a very light shade of green, whichI feel clashes a bit with the surrounding roses. That's Desdemona to the right.

I also noticed Roald Dahl had a lot lighter leaves than I had seen on most roses. Thanks for putting your pictures up. It still looks good to me!

I think that foliage difference is one of the reasons some people like Ingrid are so careful to keep warm colors and cool colors separate. I too ratdog find the foliage and rose flowers most ideally not clashing. The yellow green foliage always looks a little sick to me. Mrs. Doreen Pike was one rose with light green foliage that seemed to clash with the cool pink blooms, I thought.

Ratdogheads, what is that beautiful red or purple rose to the left of your first picture? I can just see the very corner of it, but it just glows! Ugh it's beautiful!

Wow ! What a gorgeous thread with lots of info and the most amazing photos ! I admit I didn’t check this at all since I had never grown Lichfield and didn’t like tranquility at all . So glad I checked it!! Y’all have amazing roses

Thistle Thrower, the rose to the left is Musntead Wood.

I should’ve known! Mine is just starting to bloom and it always takes my breath away!