Mike, I have most of your measurements correct in the layout here, but of course, everything has to be very accurate in a final layout. I think we are close. What I don't have a good feel for is the front door and that side of the space. So that needs to be refined. The scale is 1/4" = 1' (each square equals one square foot).

layouts · More Info

The concept is to have the "baking" station on the stair side of the space with a smaller sink, stack of ovens. The island is designed to have a optional slide in table so there is some dining space. On the "baking" end one lower cabinet on the island would be designed for sliding in sheet pans and the other cabinet houses a pull out and up mixer stand. No hard lifting of the mixer to counter top. I put drawer 24" cabinets below on island with one towel pull out on main sink side of island. If you don't want the "table slide in" then the outer side would have a 14" overhang for stools. If slide in table is desired, the countertop in both would come out over the 9' long and 48" wide island (plus some inches for trim endings etc.

On the main kitchen side, the window would be changed to approximately a 3' window with a 36" sink base and a 30" farmhouse sink (Kohler has good value sink); the range on that side 30", and a lazy susan in the corner at 36" size. I put option on mixer pull up on that side, but later decided it needed to go on other side. So ignore that. Then the dotted lines show some upper cabinets. Upper cabinets aren't terribly useful as we ladies age since we shrink 1-2" over time. This should give you a very good basic starting point if you are able to open the entire area.

That's a vey sweet setup. Only issue is on the Sink wall w/ Fridge. Its 146.5" to the door trim so that space needs the fridge inside of it is all.

Mike - has your mom ever used one of those double oven ranges? If not, I strongly suggest you take her to a store that has the one she thinks she wants set up (or one like it) and see how she feels about taking big/heavy pans and food items out of the bottom oven (think turkey, lasagna, etc.), which is nearly on the floor. If she has a bad back or lacks strength this could be a problem. I say this because we inherited one of these from the former owners when we bought our house and I loathed it. Even being relatively youngish, strong and flexible, taking out large/heavy roasts in large/heavy pans from the bottom oven was a PITA because of how low to the ground it was, and even just turning the pan around or pulling it out to baste was a PITA. So it would be a good idea to make sure she knows what she is getting before you just buy it and it might end up being something she didn’t really want.

"So talked to my mom last night and she REALLY wants a double oven gas range. She likes the economics of mostly using the smaller upper rack. So now what?"

I mentioned earlier the combination fuel ranges -- gas burners with electric ovens. People like them because gas ovens have their issues, such as they don't heat as evenly as electric. I think for someone doing alot of baking that electric would be better. Years ago, I had a gas range and, sure, I could cook in the oven, but when I found out about the combos, I jumped at the chance to have an electric oven instead of gas when I could.

Maybe talk to her about which is best for baking -- gas vs. electric oven. If she likes to do research online, she can check it out herself. Also, it might be worthwhile to see what the energy savings is for the smaller ovens -- intuitively we sense we would save compared to a larger oven. But when we look at the actual numbers, it might turn out that the savings difference is not as great as we imagine, and over a period of say, ten years, might not be worth whatever extra cost the double oven range would present.

Personally, if I did alot of baking, I think I would go for the wall oven arrangement. It might cost more to buy cooktop and ovens separately -- maybe/maybe not depending on how you purchase them -- see next paragraph -- plus Memorial Day sales are on! BUT wall ovens can allow more options in arranging the kitchen ergonomically PLUS with the oven more at eye level, it's easier to keep an eye on things that are baking and manipulate pans in and out. The back bending for a sub counter oven won't get easier for her as she ages.

Here is a tip for saving money on appliances -- check out the Sears outlets. They sell the scratch & dent appliances at huge savings. All the warranties still apply. I bought my first dual fuel range that way -- there was a scratch on the stainless top but I knew that we'd make many more so I didn't worry and saved almost $1K. We just bought an LG dryer that way also at considerable savings -- it has a dent on the side but who cares, that never shows.

Oh boy, that is a big issue Mike. I will have to completely redo this because of that clarification. Sorry I didn't interpret that wall correctly. That removes approximately 3' from the whole layout. So, back to the drawing boards! bbl

Sorry about that

Personally, I'd want the double ovens closer to the cooktop. Imagine putting a casserole or roast in the oven and also using the cooktop to cook veggies and then having to carry the hot casserole or roast to the cooktop so that all the food is together when served. Mine were too far apart in my last kitchen and that is my biggest regret. It was chaos when DH was searing a steak on the range and then had to put it in the oven to finish. He was running across the kitchen with a hot cast iron skillet and we had to clear the path quickly lest the chance of accident.

Working off Flo's design, put the d/o to the left of the cooktop. If your mom doesn't need two ovens, you could do a microwave/oven combo instead. You can put a slotted tray divider above the ovens for baking sheets, etc. My MIL has one and has no issue with it. I wouldn't want to put anything glass up there, though.

I have mixed feelings about the mixer lift. I've had one and also they do take away the "lifting" of the heavy mixer, they can be kinda awkward to pull out and up and also to put away again and they take up cabinet space. Does your mom even use a stand mixer?

If you go the IKEA route, they have multiple options for corner cabinets besides the 38"x38" lazy susan. Definitely go to an IKEA and look at them. I'm opting to have a "dead corner" in my upcoming remodel because the corner options would cost me two sizable drawer stacks and the net gain of actual storage space is negative.

I'd also put two 36" drawer stacks in the island across from the sink/dishwasher. Your mom can store her dishes in there. Does she currently have a pantry? If not, I'd put tall pantry cabinets along the wall where Flo shows the "baking center." IKEA make some really nice ones. I was so impressed with their cabinets when I visited the showroom last weekend and plan to use them in my upcoming remodel.

Thanks for the suggestions. My mom LOVES her stand mixer. It might just stay on the counter as 1) it looks nice and 2) its almost more work lifting it out of the cabinet. I won't decide on that until i check them out tho. We need to get to IKEA is sounds like lol.

Definitely go see them in person. They just came out with a new brown Grimslov (medium brown not the red brown which they are discontinuing). It was SO nice in person. We went in totally thinking we'd go with the gray Bodbyn but the brown Grimslov really looked so much nicer in person. The saleslady said they are coming out with a light gray Grimslov (probably the gray available now in Canada) at some point and a green (she wasn't sure what shade) Bodbyn in September.

OK Mike, I did the first scaled layout for free, but this one is going to cost you! lol Just kidding. Can't do as much loosing that 3' but basics still work.

layouts · More Info

I left approx. 42" between side cabinets and island for easy movements and no interference with appliances. The small end cabinet to the right of the dishwasher, will have to be sized when very specific measurements are made. Could be a pull out towel cabinet 9-12". I would do as many drawers below countertops as possible, making the bottom drawers deepest. Some could be 3 drawer and some could be 2 drawer depending on needs. I didn't put the "pull out mixer" station on the baking side, but you could do it beside the ovens or instead of the 24" end drawer unit in the island.

This

San Roque Modern · More Info

I believe this unit requires a 18" cabinet (depending on unit selected), so cabinet adjustments on the island would be needed.

Leavitt · More Info

Here is another arrangement. NOTE: PLAN FOR AN OUTLET IF YOU USE THE POP OUT MIXER UNIT.

By code you will need outlets in the island as well.

You are awesome Flo. Thx so much for taking the time to help!

My pleasure Mike and I hope this is going to really help you design an awesome kitchen for your Mom. By planning ahead, like you are doing, you can then execute in the shortest possible timeframe and with dedicated craft, make this happen faster than most. Wishing you the BEST of luck. Remember the 7 Ps - Piss Poor Planning Precedes Piss Poor Performance! Excuse the language! ;)

This is going to be a beautiful kitchen - please post photos when you get there!

Regarding the fridge your mom is keeping — as you're building walls do consider recessing the wall behind the fridge so that only the fridge doors extend past the countertops. It will look nicer when it's finished.

Hi, Mike

The double oven ranges have their pros and cons. I know there are plenty of fans out there, I'm not one of them as I know it would not work for me. Find out what about them appeals to your mom and compare it to the ergonomics of a wall oven. No need to report back, tho. :)

Regarding the refrigerator, I wouldn't keep it pushed back in it's recess. Pull it forward just enough for the refrigerator cabinet box to be flush with the cabinet so that the refrigerator doors can be opened fully. You could fill in the recess with something accessible from the sun room (assuming that's on the opposite side of the refrigerator recess) or just leave it as an empty cavity.

And just to clarify, my suggested layout and the illustration I posted a couple of days ago, I was not at all suggesting you install cabinets across the window without replacing it. I was implying it be replaced with a shorter window that's the same width as the existing.

Anyhoo, best of luck with this project. I'm sure your mom will love her new kitchen. :)

So now the really important questions....color and door style?

You need to take her so she can pick out what she likes. Or at least give you an idea. Have her look at inspiration pictures.

A shaker door style is classic and very easy to work with. Avoid glazed finishes because that is a dated look. I would pick a couple of “best” looks 3 at most and take then home. Let her live with them for a day or two. Then pick one. Whites are always in style. Whites can be tricky especially when it comes to backsplash coordination. What colors does she like?

In a classic 1950's ranch? I'd go with a medium stain, flat panel door.

We both like gray and white. She watches HGTV too much. Last night saw a kitchen w gray base cabs and white uppers. Not sure how I feel about that.

Please get her off of HGTV. Nothing but trendy stuff on that network. Gray is so gloomy. Try a redirect. What are her favorite colors? :)

I myself like white cabs w a contrasting island

A blue/gray base cabinet color would be nice if her furnishings lean to country look?

I really don’t know what her style is currently. She is always hoping to change things to be more up to date. One thing is a definite...black stainless appliances. Wont be convinced otherwise.

Maybe taking her to a store where black stainless appliances are on the floor and showing her all the scratches and surface damage in the coating will help change her mind...?

I’m the fan of black stainless or black slate from GE

Oh...well, maybe you should look and talk to salesmen? Black stainless is a thin coating on top of regular stainless steel that is prone to scratching and also differs from one manufacturer to another. So, in a couple of years, you'll have ugly scratched appliances, and when you look at replacing some of them, you won't be able to find anything that matches unless you stick with the same brand -- and assuming that particular brand hasn't already discontinued their line of black stainless appliances. Just something to think about!

I think your appliance color should depend on the cabinet color. For example should you choose white, black stainless might not be a good choice. Besides, didn't you say your mom wants to keep the stainless refrigerator? Perhaps you should stick with all stainless for a more cohesive look?

Personally, I like the regular stainless for the light it reflects in the kitchen.

I'm a big fan of the GE slate. it is a matte finish. but as others posted you have to stay with one manufacturer to be consistent in color with black stainless. I plan on getting slate appliances when its a screaming deal or something breaks down. just my thoughts if the handles are stainless replacing with stainless when something breaks wouldn't look totally bad.

i think this is interesting a small upper oven good for small heating like pizza and can also use as a full oven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIMCji0MOWw

Are you a fan of induction cooktops? Seem to be a lot safer and faster than gas.

Edit: nevermin. She has a pacemaker so induction is a no no.

The question to ask her is -- if your kitchen would be IN your living room, what would you like the cabinets to be?

Did I read somewhere that you were considering embedding a collapsible pull-out table in the island? If so, it seems like a thing with so many moving parts would be more durable (would work alot better overall) in a wood finish. So that would fit your white cabinet/wood finish island concept nicely.

But then -- to illustrate the fun of a kitchen where the cabinets are painted in the cook's favorite colors, check out the kitchen Julia Child's husband created for her -- with two tone cabinets! It is now in the Smithsonian.

https://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/slideshow/julia-child-kitchen-photos

Some cabinet organizers for you and your mom.

More. Standard lowest cost.

Using Flo's last plan, if you scoot the DW to the right to be on the end (you'll have to do some reinforcement on the right side of the dishwasher to support the countertop), it looks like you could possibly have a 30" drawer stack to the left of the sink and maybe a 36" drawer stack to the right of the cooktop if you forego the corner cabinet. Personally, I'd find the larger drawer stacks more beneficial than the corner susan/cabinet, which I despise unless you go custom/semi-custom and are able to get corner drawers.

I contacted a local contractor who installs and priced me Fabuwood w Blum hardware at a very competitive price. Thoughts on them? Ikea is closer to 2 hours away. This contractor is 20 mins away. I just want the best for me money.

Ultimately, only you can decide which is better for you, your mom, and your budget. I would make the trip to IKEA, though, just to view their cabs in person. It's worth the 2 hour drive just for their meatballs, I hear ;)

I have never viewed Fabuwood and know nothing about them. The great thing about IKEA is that you can use their online planner and get an accurate price using their products. Then you can decide which direction to go.

Price of ikea and fabuwood is virtually identical. Chinese wood scares me a lil tho.

Never heard of them. Ikea is well-known and has well-respected products. They are tried and tested. That is all I have to say on the subject. Good luck.

For the heck of it, I had a local custom cabinet maker give me a quote for the layout. Was right around 10k, all installed w moldings and undermount sink. Actually a lot cheaper than I thought. Still quite a bit more than Ikea but these are solid. Tough decision

Hello again, Mike! Was the custom quote for melamine veneer over particleboard? What door style and construction? If different from IKEA, ask him to quote the exact same.

Figure your time (and DIY-related frustration) with assembling and installing IKEA. I'm not saying IKEA is frustrating, but there's a certain level of frustration that goes along with any DIY project particularly if it's your first time doing that particular project.

He uses all solid Birch or maple. Blum hardware on everything. Soft close, full extension. 3/4" crown molding. He did all the cabinetry work from my sisters new house so I def trust his work.

There are advantages in hiring someone to do the thing they do all the time (so they have the expertise and efficiency) compared to launching on a DIY.... There are plenty of other things in the overall project that you can be doing with your limited time that aren't so easy/economical/beneficial to contract out as the cabinetry! And, if a price for maple is anywhere near the Ikea price, I'd really give that some serious thought, as Ikea isn't offering too much these days in a light woodgrain. They discontinued the pretty light birch shaker doors they had for years. Your mother can have some really good choices with your custom guy that your family knows. But still, I would make the trip to Ikea with her so she can get ideas, maybe pick up a few clever kitchen storage gizmos -- and try those meatballs with the ligonberry sauce!

Edit: nevermin. She has a pacemaker so induction is a no no.

A pacemaker isn't necessarily a no go anymore. Call the number on your mother's pacemaker card and ask them if it's safe. I did that because DH has a pacemaker and most pacemakers put in in the last 15+ years are safe to use with induction.

We have induction in our new house with no problems for DH as long as to quote the pacemaker person, "he keeps his pacemaker at least 6" away from the cooktop." LOL

The cabinet maker is coming Friday for blueprints and design. I’m excited yet still change my mind about design about 50 times a day lol. Microwave location is something I need to figure out. Down low isn’t a good option for her so having it in the island won’t fly.

I was going to suggest a pull out table, or making the island so that there is room for a table, but now I see that Flo thought of that! I am not elderly , but I do not like perching on a stool.

Do take you mother to Ikea -- if she likes shopping at all she will enjoy wandering through (I did, and I am not a shopper unless I need something), and they do have excellent gadgets and storage ideas.

Have you seen microwave drawers? that might work for her. Otherwise, I like my M/W at counter height, or no more than shoulder high (my shoulder -- the cabinetmaker placed it at his shoulder height and he is 6'!)

I second the Sears Outlet suggestion. I have gotten nearly all my appliances there without problem -- just be sure you aren't choosing a repo'd or returned item. They aren't cleaned well. Floor models in the retail stores can be a big savings also. We have another store that specializes in discontinued and overstock models as well.