so wheres the root pictures?

OK, I'll add some more holes to the bottom of the container to aid drainage and then do a thorough watering to try and flush out any built-up salts.

To bklyn citrus: I haven't taken the roots out to look at them. It is 115 degrees in Phoenix and the tree is stressed, I didn't want to further stress the tree by uprooting it. I was hoping that people might have an idea of what is happening by looking at the leaves. I was under the impression the drooping and "burned" appearance could be signs of root rot.

Travis not always. It could be a sign of salt damage, heat stree and over fertilizing. Practically anything and that is why we always tell many to check the roots first. It usually is root rot, but not always. Looking at them will just take one concern away, a process of elmination) Let us know. Carefully lifting the tree from the pot should cause no harm at all, we do it all the time)

The pot looks too small for a tree...?

Thanks Mike, that is good to know. I will try this tonight. What should I look for with the roots? If it is root rot, should I clip off the damage roots, repot with new soil?

Travis, sorry I was away. Just a bad smell, like old soil, brown roots, mushy roots, roots that fall away easily. They should look like an off white deep yellowish, vibrant color.

You don't want to know what I would do if I saw the roots to my tree rotted.. Let us know what your find was))

Anytime you need immediate help, you can instant message me or message me through here, I don't mind at all.)

OK, here are some pictures of the roots. What do you guys things? There is a little brown coloring to them, but I think that's just soil. They felt strong. Do I need to cull any of these roots, are they all bad, or is it something else?

I see some circling roots that need trimming, the upper roots look Ok, but thats top view only not pulled out of a pot to see if its overall well developed root system, damage can be below where water table is. That dark pot isn't helping in Phoenix temps and that media looks like sludge. How long has it been in that pot? Might be uppot time......

There are some circling roots. The pot is too small, for sure. I assumed that would just restrict its growth more than harm the tree. I put it in there at the end of April, not realizing it was undersized. I plan to put it in a big one but was waiting until after summer to repot so I don't over-stress it.

Is it okay to just trim the circling roots?

healthy roots

Cuban Shaddock from cuttings · More Info

You have no fruit to worry about or blooms and its kind of stressed now but not that bad either that you couldn't wait and just keep it well watered and flush it out No two people would give you the same answer, I don't live in Phoenix and have no idea where you keep that tree (I hate meyers anyway LOL). But if it were mine, since it aint doing anything anyway, since I hate them anyway ( I have 2), I'd up-pot and bare root it (in evening or early morning in nice cool spot I'd pull it up and dump entire rootball ball in pail of cold water loosening a majority of the old soil while you work keep it on water, then you'd truly know) in a nice 5-1-1 mix, maybe 5-2-1 with osmocote and no fertilizing, and let it sit in shade for a week or two. I'm sure it'll sulk. LOL

Wow that's a huge root ball! I had no idea they were that deep. I didn't want to pull the whole thing out but now I see what you mean that there might be damage deeper down. Yikes!

Here's a few more pictures pulling the whole thing out. It doesn't smell bad, the roots feel strong. I'm guessing it's not root rot. So, something else is really stressing this poor tree out. It's a "Tale of Two Cities"--the Meyer is thriving and the tangelo is struggling. They are right next to each other.....

I loosened all the soil in the pot and put it back in. I tried to keep the soil loose and I put less mulch on top in case that was restricting air flow or something. I would like to up pot it, I just don't have a bigger one at hand right now and I didn't think it would be good to leave the poor tree hanging out for a few days so I just put it back.

The good news its roots are pretty good but keep in mind citrus likes wider pots to suit canopy. Up pot as soon as you can. Bottom roots need trimming and anything circling. It was choking itself. I generally don't do a pull job unless I have replacement soil media on hand (usually do as a habit) and/or a bucket (I grow in white paint buckets with holes drilled in them bottom and sides vertically - homemade rootmakers - see steves posts, cheap and easy if you dont mind the look). One thing I do and others would say no to, is I reuse old potting soil as the one component in a new 5 bark-1 old soil-1 perlite mix in lieu of peat. Good luck

arguably you could have rootpruned, made up new media and put it back

I'll get a bigger container ASAP, thank you for the input!

I never use peat but old soil instead when I up pot. I use 5-1-1 in the bottom and fill the pot graduating to a mix pf 2-3-1 a the surface. When my customer has me repot her plants the potting soil has decayed to the point that it is compost now at 1 part compost 1 part Perlite.

Steve

.

Travis, you got great advice. In fact, what one of these guys said I would do to my tree too. I would cut the roots back and pot up into a better mix. That mix looks horrible. You see what happens when you address the roots first. Once you pot it, make sure that all the roots are covered well and all the while you keep the tree submerged in water until you stick it in the pot. Water it in well and then stick it in just light or shade, no need for full direct HOT sun until it gets itself back on it roots again. It's summer, long days, lots of warmth, it should come back and hold its own very well. Please let us see the finished end of it. A clay pot would do wonders for you! An azelea pot?

Black plastic is no good for your area. White ones or clay, specially clay which tends to stay cooler than plastic and is porous would help a lot!

The pot is actually ceramic, not plastic (if that makes a difference). The potting mix was marketed as for citrus, but when looking at the ingredients it is a poor mix. I have other potting soil which is much better (looser, faster draining) that I will use to repot. I am planning on building a big container out of cedar wood in a couple weeks when I get back from a vacation. I'll repot it then, if you guys think it can wait that long. I'm a little concerned as I left the tree partially uprooted for a few hours yesterday while I waited to hear back about the condition of the roots. I wasn't aware I should put them in water. Fortunately it wasn't very exposed, this was before I pulled out the whole root ball. Smack my head..... Like I said, first-timer here.

Only put them in water if you're repoting as a holding measure, while working,

you're not. It's your tree, and thats jus me, if I just fucked with it, I'd do something now, build your dream ad do again later, once its in a hobbyists mix its very flexible

Just curious are there any of these flourishing in your area?..and is planting in the ground out of the question?....and is your climate ideal?....I ask because I went thru all this at the beginning of my gardening experience...if conditions are less than ideal it may not thrive ...or even survive

ritasj, hes in phoenix arizona its sunny and very hot, but low humidity, where are you? It can be grown both ways where he is, in ground may need protection but hes a newbie and he has a tree happy

Travis, if I were you and I was going away, I woul stick a self timer water thingy on your poots, stick them in shade, or partially bury them to keep the soil moist. Is there a neighbor that can water them for you. If I was your neighbor I sure would)

By the way, ceramic pots for me can get so hot, they can actually burn the roots. I never use ceramic pots in the hot sun, that is why I use clay or plastic white ones. Good choice on using a better soil mix. That one is crap and will break down and suffocate the roots in no time. I wonde if your other tree is in the same stuff? if so, watch for issus on that one suddenly too.

Vacation? I hope you have a great time

Travis, I responded to your Houzz message but it send "failure to send". Weird. If you need to contact me let me know and I will either provide my e-mail or facebook)

I agree.. since Florida is a major citrus producer I would assume humidity is essential ..

Citrus does great in Phoenix. Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, all big citrus producers.

Whats the coldest Phoenix gets in winter?

Be careful building your own container that you dont make it too big of a container. For the size of your tree I wouldn't recommend going over 5 gallon. Citrus in containers need to be replanted every two years or so as the soil compacts and breaks down leaving not enough oxygen in the soil. Putting it into too large of a container will likely lead to root rot as it stays wet.

I looked up Phoenix and it appears to be zone 9 or 10, with lows in the 25-30 degree range, I'd plant in ground there and build/frame out a winter covering for the worst days, and possibly used as a summer shade cover .......can definitely grow Citrus there

Thank you for the recommendation Ken. I haven't figured out how to properly size the container yet. I've read how they need to be "upped" every year or two, it seemed like an easy option would just be put it in a big container in the first place.... I wasn't aware that too big would hold on to the moisture longer. Why wouldn't it just drain like other environments (e.g., the ground), assuming you have enough drainage holes?

A pot with twice the volume holds twice the moisture but the plant uses the same amount which ever pot it is in. Small pot 2 weeks big pot 4 weeks and that is enough time for harmful pathogens to grow.

Steve

Too big a pot is no good....be careful

I suggest you seek some expert local advice...

If you have too much pot you could get mandatory 7 in a court of law

Ritasj, that's the problem, many come here because there is no local expert advice. They have not a clue. Most places suggest lousy soil mixes and tell you nothing of the best care citrus need. I find the experts here)

That makes a lot of sense Steve. I'll shoot for 5 gallon, though I'm not sure that is much bigger than my current pots. I did the math and an 8"x8"x8" box would be 5 gallons. My current pot is cylindrical but appears to be around those dimensions. In any event, I think I'll do some root trimming and new soil immediately and put it in a bigger container once I get/build one.

Travis, 8x8x8 inches is 2.22 gallons.

Can you clarify? 1 cubic foot is 7.5 gallons. If I want 5 gallons, I divide 5 by 7.5 = 2/3. So, 2/3 of 1 cubic foot is 5 gallons. 2/3 of 1 foot is 8 inches, so wouldn't that be an 8x8x8? Perhaps I need to revisit geometry. Oh wait, it would be 12x12x8 wouldn't it? Oops! Thanks for pointing that out!

I stand by my suggestion...

@thespruce.com...very informative article about growing Meyer lemons in pots....answers to all the questions you have been discussing

The spruce.com article says: Meyer lemon trees can grow in almost any type of soil with good drainage, but they thrive in loamy or sandy loam soils. I doubt that loamy or sandy loam soils will provide sufficient drainage. Use either the 5-1-1 or gritty mix.

Some people with many years experience growing citrus in containers do not use the above soil mixes. For example, Millet (TropicalFruitForum.com) uses 9 parts Miracle Grow Garden Soil (NOT Miracle Grow Potting Soil) to 1 part Perlite. CAUTION: MG Garden Soil varies depending on where in the country you buy it. You are more likely to avoid root rot using the gritty or 5-1-1 mix.

Root rot is not a problem in the hot summer months but getting a tree through the winter can be deadly in a heavy mix or an oversize pot

I put new soil in them last night and gave a thorough watering (which hopefully drains better in the new soil). I'm headed out for vacation now and will begin getting the larger pots when I return. Thanks for all the suggestions and help everyone!

Steve, you said Root rot is not a problem in the hot summer months

I disagree. I have had a problem because of all of the rain we have had and I use 5-1-1 mix. I have not had a problem with trees in gritty mix.

My plants might have root rot problems in 5-1-1 but gritty mix causes back rot

Don’t know if you are raising the pot off the ground so water can drain out...?

Root rot is Less likely but not impossible in summer months. Winter more likely ...never say never. I had media on hand and slowly Redid as needed most of my soil media pots in the middle of winter (I know weird) growing under lights but then I knew for sure what was going on breakdown-wise and root-wise, since I knew they were going out soon enough the 5-1-1 mix might have been 6 or 7 and reptibark is harder than pine. All that rain was no problem for me. The new question is how much breakdown occurs after all that sun and rain plus copious fertilization and insects and microbial activity in 6 months outside.

If I lived in that zone, Citrus would be in ground, I might raise a bed and plant high but it would be in ground.

Travis, I hope you had a nice vacation. Welcome back when you do get back and please let me know how your tree turned out or how it looks)

mikerno_1@yahoo.com

Thanks Mike! Sadly, the tangelo tree was virtually dead when I returned. The Meyer lemon is still going strong. I did find this little critter on there tonight, any idea what it could be? An aphid? In the picture it looks more brown, to my eyes it appeared more white/gray.