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alicenne_passavanti

help! tiny kitchen remodel-layout, recessed lighting & sink size

Hey folks - I'd love any advice you can offer on the remodel of my tiny kitchen. Advice re: layout, recessed lighting and sink size especially.


Taking down walls are not an option so we are stuck with the current foot print. The stove (30" wide and true counter depth), dishwasher (standard 24") and refrigerator (Width: 23 7/16 Inch, Depth: 24 7/16 Inch, Height: 68 5/8 Inch) are all purchased, so not way to gain space there. We all have a plumbing vent in one corner (between the windows) and the stack for the whole house on the short wall next to the window that we need to work around.


Our current set up is super dysfunctional - the refrigerator partially blocks the wall, we have no external venting for the stove and the smoke alarm goes off constantly and there cabinets form an L that goes into the hallway portion. I've attached a plan with measurements and some images that show the new layout I am considering. We would add some open shelving on the wall by the sink/Windows. Other layout suggestions?


I'm also planning on adding recessed lights. I'm thinking 3 in the hall, 3 in the kitchen and 2 over the open work surfaces - is this too much? Would it be better to use two rows? Can I get away with 4" or should we use 6"? I read that with cabinets, the recessed lights should be 36" from the wall to avoid shadows on the counters...the cabinets (except over the refrigerator) are 15" and will will likely add down lighting and lights within the top glass cabinets.


As far as the sink goes, we're looking at KOHLER Prolific 23 inch Workstation Stainless Steel Single Bowl Kitchen Sink (SINK SIZING: 23" x 17-3/4"). It's pricey, but appreciate the functionality. I know it the cabinet will need to be modified to fit it, but I'm worried about having enough space for the faucet...


We plan on adding two rails to the hallway for pots and pans


Any and all help would be appreciated!


Anything else I should be thinking about that I'm not?

Comments (18)

  • 5 years ago

    forgot to add the images...



  • 5 years ago





  • 5 years ago

    Thanks so much. I like the idea of the open shelves running all way across the small wall with the sink and dishwasher. The wall we are planning on placing the stove is an external wall and we have a two story house with the bathroom above the kitchen. While we would gain some counter space by flipping it to the other side, I'm not sure that we would be able to vent it properly. We splurged on a proffessional stove, so we need an external vent.

  • 5 years ago

    Hmm that is a dilemma. Are you hiring a contractor? Without seeing your house and investigating it is hard to know but sometimes there is another vent in an interior wall that they can tie into fairly easily. It may be worth having someone come and take a look. They may be able to tie the vent into a dryer vent in your basement, or a bathroom vent somewhere. We tend to think that vents have to go straight up and out but they don't sometimes they can wind around quite a ways before actually leaving the house.


    I think in such a small space its worth a look to see if theres a way to make it work.

  • 5 years ago

    Thanks. I can see how having the stove on the otherside could open up the space and add counter space around the stove. We are not working with a contractor, but have a good HVAC company that we work with. Our dryer is in the basement and our bathrooms are in the basement and the 2nd floor. They don't have vents since they have windows...our house was build in 1929...


    Any advice re: the recessed light or sink?

  • 5 years ago

    The lighting layout you have shown seems fine to me. So long as the ones down the middle and the ones directly over the counter are on separate switches. If they are all on one switch it may feel like too much lighting in the day time. Personally I prefer to have more switches so that I have options as to how much light is on at once.


    If your sink base is standard dept (24") there won't be a problem with fitting the faucet in. My kitchen sink is deeper with standard depth cabinetry, I have enough space on either side of my sink.

    Alicenne Passavanti thanked AFritzler
  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Even in NYC, I don't think I have ever worked with a kitchen so tiny! Seems like you have given your layout in depth thought. It might be your only solution. However, I always love a good design challenge!

    I understand the windows and the doorway into the kitchen, but what are the other three windows/doors at the bottom left of the plan? Back door? Can you take a pic and post all angles of the entire space? Would love to give it a whirl.

  • 5 years ago

    Denise - have at it. The way the space is set up - and the size! make it have to photograph. Instead, I labeled the plans. The entrances/doors/windows/plumbing lines make the size even harder to work with. Hope that clarifies what is where...


  • 5 years ago

    Thanks for the info. Here's a floor plan that is not much different then what you did, but will give you more workspace and visually be more appealing. The trick will be in the finishes and details.

    Consider moving the fridge to the lower right hand corner and build the pantry storage around it. On the right wall, the pantry cabinetry is 15" deep, even the cabinetry past the entry to the dining room. This will give you some breathing room with all the tall cabinetry on the common dining wall.

    The stove/dishwasher/sink wall is now a nice clean long run and gives you a perfect place for a drawer cabinet on the left of the stove. Go crazy with the backsplash material, like marble, brick, or tile. See pics below. The sink being off center to the window is a concession to having a good work surface run.

    The top window wall (where you originally had the sink) is an 18" deep cabinet. In a small space, every inch helps and I always steal it from wherever I can. The cabinets on that wall don't have to be a full depth to be functional.

    Consider installing open shelving around that window for additional storage and display.

    V V V Brick backsplash. Go to ceiling with cabinetry.


    V V V White subway tile backsplash. Interesting hood with shelf.


    V V V Marble backsplash. Interesting take on open shelves.


    V V V Common dining room wall pantry cabinet, The fridge will be deeper then the pantry.


    V V V This is an idea for the top window wall (where the sink originally was located) The shelves can go up to the ceiling and around the window. The bottom shelf to line up with the top cabinets on the sink/oven wall. Love the color behind the shelves.



    Alicenne Passavanti thanked Denise Marchand
  • 5 years ago

    I agree with Afritzler about the lighting and especially having control options. Also adding under counter lights for task lighting is a must. Consider four switches: 1) overall light 2) sink only 3) under counter 4) night light.

    Alicenne Passavanti thanked Denise Marchand
  • 5 years ago

    Denise Marchand - thank you for all of your suggestions! We took your suggestion to move the refrigerator to the wall with the other tall cabinets but are keeping the sink and dishwasher in the locations on my original plan - this allows us to have a corner cabinet. We are using ikea cabinets so we are limited to 15" and 24".


    We are planning on using a gloss, white subway tile for the open walls (full wall) and back splash on the cabinet wall. We also switch to solid oak counters throughout.


    Do the window's it is hard to add shelving on either side of the sink. Once the wall is bumped out to even it out with the other side to cover the plumbing stack, the wall to the left of the sink only has 5/6"s of depth before the window. We may add open shelving above the dishwasher on the same wall as the tall cabinets and a high open shelf along the wall with the stove as well. We're going to wait till cabinets and counters are up before we make any decisions about adding open shelving.


    Since we eliminated the wall cabinets we also switched around the light plan. (below). With a 2nd row, we dropped down to 4" lights from the 6". We are somewhat constrained by the water pipes/stack and AC vents that run through ceiling. The tall cabinets will also have counter task lights. The box outline matches which switch they are attached to. We'll will make sure both sets are dimmable. Debating if it make more sense to only have 2 lights in the hall...If we add another light above the dishwasher, it could only be 10" from the wall.




    Since we eliminated the wall cabinets we also switched around the light plan. See attached. Since we added another row, we are dropping down to 4" lights from the 6". We are somewhat constrained by the water pipes and AC vents that run through ceiling. The tall cabinets will also have counter task lights. The box outline matches which switch they are attached to. We'll will make sure both sets are dimmable.

  • 5 years ago

    Choose the deepest stainless steel sink you can get -- double bowl if possible -- with a faucet with a good high arc -- think bar sink.


    There are three burner 2' wide stainless steel stoves -- saw one in a cabin a while back. Check out undersized appliances intended for smaller mobile homes and campers and cabins.


    Would not put the fridge and stove next to each other because the heat from the stove would make the fridge run more -- need a 16"-18" countertop between them. Would not, however, put the fridge in the corner where the wall would likely prevent the door(s) from opening fully.


    If you are right handed, the hinges on your stove need to be on the left and you need a 16" -18" countertop on the right of the fridge to set items as you lift them out of the fridge -- especially if you're needing to move some stuff out of the way in order to get something from the back of the fridge.



  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Happy I could help. Sometimes a simple solution is staring us right in the face. You will be much happier with the fridge in that corner.

    When planning everything out, consider each wall elevation as a composition, so that each wall is visually pleasant. The bookcases in the pic above would not go down to the countertop, as you need as much counter space as you can grab. The bottom of all the shelves should all line up. I love full walls of tile to the ceiling. Sounds great.

    In reference to the lighting. Good idea to go smaller with the lights. I understand you have some existing constraints, but some of it would drive me crazy. Here is a suggested plan:


    Instead of an off center light over the sink, can you have two and align with the right and left edge of the sink? Because I am such a bad cook, I would need a light directly over the stove. Is that possible? Then just add one overhead centered on the pantry. The two in the hall are good. I'm a big fan of dimmers, too. You should have one "night light" on a separate switch - maybe in in the corner on the left of the sink.

    What flooring are you considering?

  • 5 years ago

    Thanks Denise! Due to the vent & plumbing, we can't center any on the ceiling lights to the window/walk way. We are extending the red oak we have in the rest of the house into the kitchen. I'm not a big fan of wood in the kitchen, but it is such a small space...I originally wanted to do Marmoleum. We have inside lighting in the top cabinet and plan on using that as our night light :)

  • 5 years ago

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  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Don't forget to post progress and the final masterpiece, as we all love to be involved to the end! Not a big fan of wood floors in the kitchen. Like I said I'm a terrible cook and very messy, too! Consider what you like best and works for you. Seems like the kitchen is tucked away, so the flooring doesn't have to be continuous.

    I've used Marmoleum in projects and still looks great after many years. No complaints ever. On the other hand, wood floors need a lot of upkeep. Consider your first choice, even a solid color or checkerboard (not black and white). I looked at the Marmoleum site to see what's new. What about a design strip down the middle of the kitchen and the border color to match your wood floor? Even if the detail is only 20"-24", it will make a design statement. Again, it's all in the details with a tiny space. https://www.forbo.com/flooring/en-us/products/marmoleum/designing-with-marmoleum/marmoleum-meets-mendini/bv8335#18011



    Your kitchen reminds me of Paris, and, boy, oh, boy, can they cook! Also in Milan, Italy, I was impressed with Via Montenapoleone, a street with outrageous luxury shops. The shops are very tiny, maybe 400 sq. ft. and they are like diamonds. Gorgeous details and restrained design.

    Did you mention what cabinets you are considering?

  • 5 years ago

    I'll be thrilled if anything about our kitchen is reminiscent of Paris!


    My husband is opposed to floating floors, so we had looked at the rolls. It was cost prohibitive to purchase a full roll and I couldn't find a remnant. We'd also have to seam it - which would have required paying someone for the install. My husband can install the wood himself, so it just makes the most sense.