anoop91

miele dishwasher decision

anoop
3 months ago

I have a miele washer and dryer and happy with it and hence looking at getting a dishwasher.


To me, I'm thinking the $999 model

https://www.mieleusa.com/domestic/dishwashers-2510.htm?mat=10426250&name=G_4228_SCU_AM

should be good enough (replacing the current GE which came with the house because it's very noisy), but as I researched I came across features like sensor dry and auto open. To get both of those, I would have to spend at least $1899.

https://www.mieleusa.com/domestic/dishwashers-2510.htm?mat=10410170&name=G_6745_SCU_AM


I need help deciding if sensor dry and auto open are worth that premium. Currently some dishes do come out with a bit of water, especially those with U-lips around the edge like the rice cooker pot. Would sensor drying help with that?


The auto open seems like it would be useful for me because I run it last thing at night and remove the dishes only in the morning and sometimes even later in the day.


If you have a miele of either type, can you comment on the drying performance, and if you have the $999 model can you say if you'd recommend it?


Thanks.

Comments (126)

  • anoop

    The Miele UK website is interesting. Their models seem so different than what we get here. It's so slow though, an absolute pain to browse. Like surfing the 'net on a 14.4 kbps dial up link ca 1995.

    I have a great room floor plan that is mostly tile and my house is super quiet. But I think you are right, I probably don't need to worry about it. My fridge is rated at 43 dBA and I don't hear it very much.

    The lights definitely have the cool factor. I really appreciate them in my washer and dryer. But I'm worried about desiring too much. At that point I'm looking at $200 over the dimension. But it does have that extra dry feature too.

    One question: When the machine does the auto open thing, are the dishes already dry by then or do they need to sit around for a bit before they are really dry?

  • daimler98

    Door opening doesn’t equate to done. The time is still going for drying cycle usually for about 10 min. Look at one of the pics above where the door is open but time remaiNing is still displayed with the “drying” icon also displayed.


    Quick Intense Operates slightly different and offers a whole other Dry Plus option, separate than Extra Dry which is NA for Quick Intense. The “Dishes are clean” message is sent to the app the second the door opens with Quick, but if Dry Plus is selected it continues the fan for 5 min, and doesn’t “end”for 5 min.


    I agree about the lights.


    Also, about the 200$ difference, the front display Lumen also requires a panel, either custom or the stainless Miele. It was about 200$ in addition to the 2099$. I don’t remember if the Lumen with top controls requires a panel.


    As far as noise level, ea cycle sounds different but I can definitely tell you my lighter loads sound louder than fuller loads with the same cycle.

    anoop thanked daimler98
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  • dotsandstripes 123

    That is really interesting that the lighter loads sound louder than the fuller loads. Is that because you can hear more water swishing around?


  • daimler98

    Yes I believe so.

  • anoop

    Where do you find prices for the stainless steel panel and the handles? Are those only available from the dealer?

  • daimler98

    Yes. The front control Lumen only needs the panel.


    You can find it online at a few places but the price is exactly the same.


    So front control model you are looking at 2299$ plus tax. My guy included install and delivery. Maybe cuz I bought a w/d from him last year.


    Unless your dealer has a floor model/ cancelled order, he can’t adjust pricing, but he can set you up with free delivery and install.

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  • anoop

    They have a finished one with a handle at the local dealer here listed for $2199. Not sure how that is priced that way. But the sales folks seem very unmotivated and unwilling to help, often providing wrong info, so I hesitate to ask them anything.

  • daimler98

    Finished Lumen with the front panel??

  • daimler98

    Oh sorry. With front handle that’s the one with the top controls. My bad

  • daimler98

    Any one of these that’s say panel or handle ready get ready to pay for it. The dealer might figure that out while placing the order or shortly thereafter.




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  • daimler98

    So front controls (Lumen) you must buy a panel 2099$+200$. Top controls, the one not circled above, for 2299$ you get with handle and panel.


    Those other top controlled Lumens with no panel or handle seem to have knock to open. Hence the pricing.

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  • anoop

    In the operating instructions in the manual for auto open we have:

    >>>

     If you have deactivated the automatic door opening function and would like to open the door as soon as the program has finished, make sure that you open the door fully. Otherwise steam from the dishwasher could damage the edge of the counter because the fan is no longer running.

    >>>

    How is it that when it opens partially with auto open, that the escaping steam doesn't damage the edge of the counter?

  • yeh_yeh

    anoop with the auto open activated, the fan still run for awhile after the door popped open

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  • anoop

    Came across a post somewhere else where it was mentioned that Miele DWs have a problem where the wash pump impeller freezes/jams if the machine is not used for a while, so much so they sell a tool to break the impeller loose. Any experience with this? Is this something that has been addressed in newer designs?

  • M

    Our Miele is getting close to 10 years old. I've never had the impeller get stuck spontaneously, but maybe every year or two, some food item or broken glass makes it past the filters and gets stuck in the impeller.

    It's a rare occurrence but easy to fix. Pull out the filter, unhook the backflow valve and spin the impeller by hand. Afterwards you should be good for another few years or until you break more glass.

    The only noteworthy difference was a few months ago, when the unit behaved as if the impeller was stuck, but it clearly wasn't. Turns out the gasket in the backflow valve had worn out over thousand of wash cycles. I ordered a replacement and the DW works like new again

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  • nycmom

    Features I love about my Crystal: express, the pots and pans cycle, the turbo cycle, the timer, the cutlery tray, how quiet the machine is, and how easy it is to clean the filter. After the first dinner party, I wish I had sprung for the 3-D cutlery tray to accommodate bulkier utensils like my ladle and certain spatulas. The LED light inside would have been nice too. Quick Intense Wash didn't exist on my machine when I bought it in 2014 and that's a great improvement, especially if you entertain.

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  • anoop

    No decision yet. Had a rough health patch and that tabled everything in life for me. Meanwhile, looks like Miele has discontinued the Dimension with the handle and they will be introducing the 7000 series in the Spring.

  • daimler98

    Hope you are doing better.


    Don’t worry about missing the Dimension. The 7000 series looks pretty cool and maybe there will be introductory promos on them, as well.

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  • delray33483

    The 4xxx series is literally 3 generations old - it is there as a price point. It works well, but it is a basic model


    The G7000 will be what Miele wants to sell since it has the integrated soap disk. That obviously adds downstream profits often lacking in the appliance business. Intro promos would be limited to no charge detergent to start - who would want to discount a brand new machine?

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  • akrogirl32

    The new Miele is not available for purchase yet, but they do have one in the Scottsdale Experience Center at the moment for training purposes.

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  • anoop

    I ended up going with the 4228 (i.e. cheapest model). Let's see how it goes. It was installed today. At first the air gap was leaking and they fixed that before they left. Less than impressed with the installer.


    I also noticed that the detergent cover is a bent and does not sit flush like the rinse aid cover. Since the installer is different from the place I purchased it, I guess my only option for that is to go through Miele's warranty. This is sad. :(


    In the meantime, my Miele washing machine experienced a "waterproof system activated" event. This is after about 4 years of ownership. Fortunately it is still under warranty and someone will be coming out Monday.


    Not a good appliance weekend for me.

  • daimler98

    Congrats on the new DW. Did you pick up the Miele tabs etc?


    The detergent cover in my Lumen does not sit flush either. It always looks a bit lopsided, depending on the viewing angle. I just always double check it’s latched before starting it up, without forcing it shut of course.

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  • anoop

    There’s a satisfying click when I shut the rinse aid compartment but no such click when shutting the detergent compartment. Is that the same for you?

    I don‘t have Miele tabs or rinse aid. I just ran a normal cycle with a tab from Sonett and no rinse aid. I was underwhelmed by the drying performance. I will try with Sonett rinse aid today.

  • daimler98

    Yes. Same ”less satisfying“ click with the detergent compartment. I just make sure the detergent compartment is secure/ closed so it opens at the correct time and not when I close the door.


    I looked up your Sonett tabs. There are some pretty specific directions regarding water hardness. I took the pic but couldn’t rotate it. It says to be used only with machines with the water softener, and to raise the setting by 8 degrees. For my hardness (21 degrees), I’d have to set the Lumen to 29 degrees for these tabs. The salt would need to be replaced too often with it set that high.


    I would think a box of 20 Miele tabs were included with the machine. Try those. Most of us cut the tab in half, but since your unit doesn’t have the softener, I think you might need the full tab. I’m actually very curious if we get away with the half tabs due the built in softener.


    I have tried the following and the Miele tabs perform best after dialing everything in

    -Somat powder

    -Cascade Boil out (2nd best, maybe almost as good)

    -Claro tabs (they make the Miele tabs, rinse aid)

    -Cascade Platinum tab

    -Finish Quantum




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  • daimler98

    PS- rinse aid is a must for these machines, from my research.

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  • anoop

    I didn't get any free stuff with my 4228. I will check with Miele about that. Was also surprised that the manuals didn't come in a sealed pack like they did with my washer & dryer.


    Based on my research with my local water company, the hardness of our water equates to about 1.35 German degrees of hardness.

    http://anoopsplace.blogspot.com/2019/12/water-hardness.html


    I will try a cycle with rinse aid today and see how well it dries. I will also look into getting some Miele tabs. I think I read somewhere we don't need rinse aid when using Miele tabs. Is that true?

  • delray33483

    Still need rinse aid With Miele Tabs

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  • delray33483

    That is also very soft water. You wouldn’t need the softener.

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  • anoop

    Using Sonett rinse aid didn't help, not even a little bit. (BTW, are you guys able to fill rinse aid without spillage? I find it almost impossible to do.)

    I will try and get some Miele tabs and rinse aid and see if that makes any difference.

    My previous dishwasher had heated dry, even though it was a cheap one, so it got almost everything completely dry (except plastic). But it was too noisy and that's where the Miele came in. The Miele has definitely solved the noise problem.

    I've been rinsing the dishes before putting them in the DW and I hear that's not a good idea. But the idea of gunk building up in the filter is also not very appealing.

    Given how highly rated these machines are, I think there must be some trick to making them work right.

    Fortunately, Miele allows one to return the machine after up to 3 months if one is not happy with performance so I have some time to figure out if it's working.

    https://us.mieleusa.com/pdf/brochures/Satisfaction_Guaranteed_Brochure.pdf

  • delray33483

    a heated dry will almost always dry everything. New Euro style units use chamber convection to dry


    To make sure that all is dry inside your DW


    make sure that everything is tilted so water drains during the water cycles

    use rinse aid

    use the hottest water that you can for the cycle - normal isn't hot. It is the hot water reacting to the cool air that dries dishes.

    Obviously plastic isn't going to dry as it retains no heat

    open the door at the end of the cycle. That blast of cool air helps dry the hot dishes

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  • anoop

    I was aware of heated dry vs convection dry going into this.

    Is Pots & Pans going to be hotter than normal? I assume SaniWash would be the hottest. Is there a downside to using that all the time?

  • delray33483

    Usually retained water is loading issues. Cups, mugs and rimmed items pool water and spill when unloading


    Sani is the hottest. It is a longer cycle because it raises the heat. Only downside (besides time) is some potential for glass etching.


    Pots and Pans really isn't "hot", but uses arm and hot at different times to loosen the baked on food and then wash it away


    You should scape off loose debris but not rinse the dish when you load the DW. The detergent does need something to work on

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  • anoop

    I just discovered that SaniWash is actually the shortest cycle on my machine. Is there something wrong? The longest is Economy. SaniWash is a couple of minutes quicker than Normal.

    Is there some trick to loading the cutlery tray? My knives have been coming out with bits of jam still on them, and the forks come out with food residue.

  • fauguy

    First off, I would suggest that you get the Miele Tabs or Method Smarty Free Tabs:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002Y26UY2/


    For either the Miele or Method tabs, I cut them in-half and they work just fine in my 6625 model. I also use the Miele rinse aid since it doesn't leave any scent unlike JetDry.

    I like to use either the Pots/Pan or SaniWash cycle.

    The Post/Pan will be the longest, as it has a few pre-rinses, long main wash, and then a few post rinses.

    The SaniWash is basically the same as Normal Wash except the final rinse get to about 140 degrees to kill any bacteria.

    There is a special programming menu that you can go into (would need to call Miele for them to instruct you how to do it - or have them send out a tech). In this menu I had added "extra pre wash" so it will do 2 pre-washes instead of 1, "extra rinse" so it will do 2 clean water rinses before the final rinse, "extra dry" that has the dry cycle on 15 minutes longer. There was also an option of "added heat" but that wasn't needed.

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  • daimler98

    SaniWash and Normal do not look to basically be the same. I would like to use the SaniWash because I think it might help with a greasy smell that comes and goes when using Normal, despite using the Miele tabs, RA, plus the freshener. But I think SaniWash might damage certain items, as well as etch glassware.





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  • anoop

    I did a SaniWash cycle last night and it worked so much better in terms of cleaning, especially with getting oil/butter off of the utensils.

  • anoop

    Between my dishwasher and washing machine (experienced a leak which turned out to be due to a hole in the gasket/boot, still waiting for part/fix), this week has been some serious appliance karma for me.

    Just noticed a small leak from my dishwasher this evening. Normally, I would leave it to run and check in the morning and the leak would be dry. But today just happened to get hungry and went to the kitchen for a snack and saw this leak by the dishwasher. Now have to figure out if it's a unit problem or an install problem. What a bummer!

    I guess I'm getting my gifts from Mercury retrograde a few days early.



  • fauguy

    Has it been leaking since the install? I'd have a Miele tech come out, or have the place take it back and install a new one.

  • anoop

    I don't know. First time I have noticed it. Like I said, all prior runs I have started the machine and returned only hours later, so if it leaked, it would have dried by then.

    Problem with this is the place that sold the unit uses a contractor (supposedly Miele certified) to do the install. So calling them won't help. I think at this point it's between the installer and Miele.

    The installer wasn't very confidence-inspiring. After they completed the job, they were about to start cleaning up when I requested they run the machine. Immediately the drain under the sink started leaking. They basically didn't do a good job of hooking the pipes together (sorry my terminology is very imprecise, I'm not an expert on this stuff). So they fixed that problem before they left.

  • HKO HKO

    It’s almost certainly an install issue. Not something with the unit

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  • anoop

    Miele is having the same guy coming in to fix the washing machine take a look at this tomorrow. Let us see.

  • daimler98

    Ask him where your starter box is at. (20 tabs). If he’s a Miele tech arriving in the red van, then he will have the supplies in the van. Amazon has decent prices for the RA. Seems to range from 10.99 to 13.99, although have seen it at 17.99 a few times.

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  • anoop

    Not a Miele tech, just a certified shop. Miele tech was at least a week out.

  • daimler98

    If this is the guy that seemed kinda shaky, you can request an official Miele tech, but appointment will probably be a few weeks out.

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  • anoop

    The shaky guy was the guy that installed the DW. Don't know about this guy in particular. His father diagnosed the problem for the leaking washing machine and they had to order the part. The son is coming to install the part in the washing machine and take a look at the DW. They are certified Miele repair shop.

  • daimler98

    Oh ok. Things will be ok. Don’t worry about all this. I had an issue with my washer and some concerns with the DW and, all in all, it has worked out well, and I love the machines. The fact Miele never hassled me about getting things just right meant a lot, as well. It caused me a lot of stress, but, like I told you a while ago, I’m an incessant worrier. So I completely empathize with your situation. Keep us posted.


    Mike

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  • anoop

    The repair guy came and took a look yesterday. I just ran it like I normally do, and while there was no leakage while he was there, he said he could hear the pump struggling because of over-sudsing. So he suggested using 1/2 tab of the above detergent (Sonett). So far no leakage.


    On the other hand, he did say that the installation wasn't done very nicely. The clamp was overly tight and the pieces used to hook things together didn't fit right. Over time he said it can cause the hose to snap. So he re-did that connection.


    So far so good, I have not had any leakage. Drying is still a problem, though, but I will either have to learn to live with it or return the machine. It's not too bad, though, just a few drops.

  • delray33483

    Leakage may be coming from the oversudsing. Only way to grt dishes completely dry us with a heater element.

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  • Kim G

    Sorry defray - I disagree with your drying conclusion. I have a Miele with the open air drying system and my dishes including plastics are drier than any other dishwasher I have ever used. I have used alot of different brands in my 60+ years. I have also heard good things about the Bosch new crystal dry. Heating elements still do not do a good and consistent job with plastics IMHO and current experience.

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