1. This question is primarily dictated by actual equipment and in some cases the design of the system in question. When it comes to furnaces 2 stage operation is low fire and high fire. Low fire is merely less gas being throttled thru the gas valve, while high fire there is more gas used.

Modulation in terms of gas furnaces is very high end. This and the characteristics of it would depend again on the equipment selected. Carrier Infinity system has been around for some time now and there's been a number of changes. It's not that likely that you have a modulating furnace.

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2. no, never heard that one before. I suspect you had a tech tell you this?

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3. This is hard to say, because again the myriad ways in which companies have decided to delve into the control of zone systems. This gets into the weeds 'so to speak' --- as a complex example to a zone system, especially multi zone like you have (4 zones) some manufacturers have developed zone systems that allow *some* air thru each zone. To alleviate pressure within the duct system.

The problem with that design is that it's not truly 'zoned' - the whole reason for zoning is partly to stop cooling or heating a certain area with in the structure. The other reason is to make certain zones more comfortable. (this is only one such possibility there are many when it comes to zone systems and the design of such)

Typically down the infinity line, if I had to guess you have an 'infinity' proprietary zone system. Proprietary means that Carrier puts you in a box and requires you to use their stuff to run their machine. I don't know if that's the case or not.

When I design a zone system there is no "zone off" approach. Each zone works independently of one another and if the operator wants a zone off you merely switch off the thermostat within that zone. This is a design parameter and can vary for a multitude of reasons. So it really depends on the structure and what the goals are of the household.

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4. Likely due to a function of the furnace and the combination of the zone system and how you're operating it.

Carrier furnaces cycle off by running the blower another 90 seconds or so. Because you're running one zone this would make it fairly easy to 'overshoot' your target setting. I suspect this is likely why, the reason it may seem random is likely due to changes in ambient temps, when the loads are higher it's less noticeable than when operating the furnace when it's warmer outside and less load on the structure.

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Proprietary systems are mostly bad --- because they handcuff you to do things a certain way that tends to be more beneficial to the manufacturer of the system as opposed to the end user.

The high end HVAC systems of every manufacturer can have proprietary type limitations... so this isn't just a 'Carrier' only type problem. With that said, the infinity line is probably one of the worst 'proprietary' offenders there is. Most of this is due to the signal that is used to operate the equipment. --- so there is no 'work around' that I know of... except to rip it all out and start over or live with what you have.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Great information... Thank you. I have another vendor meet-up next Tuesday. I will include this in my discussions with them. Stay tuned!

The only little bit I'll add is that as stated, a 2-stage furnace will be either low or high. With zoning like yours, the thermostat/controller has to determine which volume to use based on 'who' is demanding the heat. If one zone only, then maybe it starts on low but may switch to high (which would be enough to heat all 4 zones) which would overshoot on a single zone. With modulation, there will be multiple levels of BTU output, say 5. This hopefully could better match the demand requested by the controller.

Thanks all. I'm still conversing with my Dealer and the Carrier folks; No solution to shutting-down/off a zone.

Typically two stage furnace will fire in 2nd stage Hi, then after the safety checks are complete it will cycle down to 1st stage.

The ramp up to 2nd stage after firing is typically based on run time of 1st stage. If you have a 2 stage Tstat this could provide a signal to the zone control board to initiate 2nd stage, but some zone boards can ramp to 2nd stage after so much time passes with first stage calling. --- a two stage thermostat tied to zone controller, well the zone controller ultimately decides what will run. (This is also true for 2 speed AC's) --- so how this actually works can vary significantly. (don't confuse zone controller to the master control *thermostat* as when I say 'zone controller' I am speaking of what turns system on and control of dampers.)

Modulating gas I believe would be similar, but I am in a hot sticky climate and the high end here are two stage 80% & two stage condensing in new builds.

The thermostats in a multi zone set up are typically just signal senders --- the zone board is what determines what will run or not.

In terms of Carrier Infinity & proprietary zoning--

It appears Carrier Infinity does as I originally thought in terms of allowing air thru zones that are not calling --- so the zones are never really off. It also appears they use *sensors* in all other zones except for zone 1. (So if that's truly the case, this is not really zoning in the true sense of the word.)

So to change temperature settings in any zone you change them from the master control in Zone 1. (Is this what you have?)

This is troublesome for a number of reasons. If there is a complaint (too hot / too cold) in one of the zones you have to bother the person in zone 1 to make the change. If you had thermostats in each zone --- you can control the system from *ANY* zone.

This is how I design zone systems that I install. Simple reason is the ease in which to control any zone.

To the OP: Do you have Temperature Sensors only in zones 2 thru 4?

Stuff to report... First here is the system I have installed:

Typically two stage furnace will fire in 2nd stage Hi, then after the safety checks are complete it will cycle down to 1st stage.

The ramp up to 2nd stage after firing is typically based on run time of 1st stage. If you have a 2 stage Tstat this could provide a signal to the zone control board to initiate 2nd stage, but some zone boards can ramp to 2nd stage after so much time passes with first stage calling. --- a two stage thermostat tied to zone controller, well the zone controller ultimately decides what will run. (This is also true for 2 speed AC's) --- so how this actually works can vary significantly. (don't confuse zone controller to the master control *thermostat* as when I say 'zone controller' I am speaking of what turns system on and control of dampers.)

Modulating gas I believe would be similar, but I am in a hot sticky climate and the high end here are two stage 80% & two stage condensing in new builds.

The thermostats in a multi zone set up are typically just signal senders --- the zone board is what determines what will run or not.

In terms of Carrier Infinity & proprietary zoning--

It appears Carrier Infinity does as I originally thought in terms of allowing air thru zones that are not calling --- so the zones are never really off. It also appears they use *sensors* in all other zones except for zone 1. (So if that's truly the case, this is not really zoning in the true sense of the word.)

So to change temperature settings in any zone you change them from the master control in Zone 1. (Is this what you have?)

>>> YES

This is troublesome for a number of reasons. If there is a complaint (too hot / too cold) in one of the zones you have to bother the person in zone 1 to make the change. If you had thermostats in each zone --- you can control the system from *ANY* zone.

>>> I thought it was spiffy that had I had zones when the system was installed. But over the years... Did become bothersome.

This is how I design zone systems that I install. Simple reason is the ease in which to control any zone.

To the OP: Do you have Temperature Sensors only in zones 2 thru 4?

>>> ALL ZONES

1. Operation explanation of the differences/perceptions of the two-stage and modulation options?

>>> Working with my Dealer to fully understand this. I expected that there would be a slow blower step-up; Then, step-down when appropriate. But, when heating starts, somewhere the is an aluminum pop sounds. Still pending a solution.

2) Anyone familiar with the term "blow-out" as it relates to a Carrier multi-zone system?

>>>Apparently... My old Bryant system dis have a blow-out zone... Different in the new. Enough said.

3) My old Infinity system had a "Zone-off" function; It appears the new Infinity does not have this function. Thoughts?

>>> More to come... This has become a biggie!

4) Although I have a four-zone system, I only use one regularly so I only have this zone to report on. At times, when set to 72-degrees, the "gas-heating" does not stop until 75-degrees.

>>> On hold until the "biggie" gets resolved.

The "biggie"...

When I upgraded to the new Infinity, it seems Carrier dropped the “Zone-off” function. Their solution is to change-out all the remote room sensors with sensors that have the “Zone-off” option. But, the replacement sensors require 4-wires, and my house was pre-wired at construction with 2-wires. It is disappointing that Carrier shows no interest in re-implementing “Zone-off”.

Stay tuned!

As far as I can tell you are stuck in a Carrier 'proprietary' hell of sorts. Things have changed over time with the Infinity line. As it relates to zoning, probably even more so.

From what little I can see from here - it appears you have no bypass. That is how this particular zoning mess was conceived. I can only presume that this is what is meant by 'blow out'. Because *if* there were zone offs some how incorporated to what you have there would be no where for this *extra* air flow to go, thus causing the weakest point in the duct system to 'blow apart'. Either that or equipment just simply destroys itself due to overly high static pressure within the duct system. If only one zone is open the excess air has to go some where.

Bypass dampers are the bane of the zoning system world. Yes, to a degree. If you understand the science and incorporate bypass properly there of not much concern. The problem of bypass mostly relates to cost cutting and the myriad of ways these sorts of things wind up being done in the field. (This is more or less to inform you that just because you had a bypass in a zone system does not imply it was implemented properly.)

Because the zone system you have is proprietary to Carrier and the Infinity line -- it's unlikely to find a solution in the Carrier realm. As you have already mentioned things have changed. I doubt that even if you found something thru Carrier that it wouldn't inadvertently cause some other issue.

So why would they do zoning this way? I believe it's more about trying to average out certain zones and eliminating hot and cold spots within the home. It really depends on the scheme they use as the selection you choose in the zone you are in, the system maybe trying to even out the temps in the other zones. This might also cause the system to overshoot the temp setting of the zone you are in.

See when Carrier designed this system they were likely envisioning a customer that is using the whole house, as opposed to just one zone. The other side of this is that it's far easier to design a zone system in which all zones remain 'somewhat' open during operation of the equipment.

Which unfortunately is not really a zone system in the true sense. There are even more miscues than this when it comes to zone systems. Situations in which ducts are over sized to deal with air flow, another big no-no in my opinion when it comes to zone system design.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

blow out zone. Different terminology I refer to this as a dump zone. However, dump zones can cause more issues than they cure. It's by no means a cure all.

It depends on the situation, the home, and the goals of the customer. There are trade offs in incorporating a dump zone. As an example... every zone system I have installed, I have not once yet -- incorporated a dump zone.

Realize a dump zone has no temperature control. It will either be really hot or really cold in the area of the dump zone, if another zone is calling. If the system is off, then so is the dump zone.

Well... I'm back to vent. I'm disappointed in Carrier. Regarding the "Zone-Off" function (above). The Carrier folks report since I am unhappy that the zone-off function is not available in the new system, I should consider their 100% satisfaction guarantee, and have their system replaced with another manufacture's system. Also, they were quick to "throw the <dealer> under the bus"; Carrier is putting the blame on my dealer that they did not inform me that the zone-off function is not available in the new Infinity system. I have yet to read Carrier’s “replace” guarantee… But, I’m sure it’s not written in my favor.

Carrier dealers are supposed to honor the Carrier satisfaction guarantee. If you are not satisfied then the equipment is removed and your money is returned. Would have to arrange for new equipment to be installed. The dealer has to eat the loss, so you can expect a lot of resistance.

You have a very nice set of equipment. If was sized and installed correctly, then my advice would be to see if the zoning issues can be resolved. Has the dealer brought in the Carrier distributor for a assessment of the zoning? Pulling another wire bundle may not be difficult. Perhaps there are wireless control options that could work in your installation.

mike_home:

You are right-on with your thoughts. I thought too that the Carrier folks would resist the remove/refund option. Therefore, I was surprised that they were so quick to respond:

FROM:

Consumer Liaison - Executive Offices

Carrier Corporation

I spoke with engineering. If you are not satisfied with the design of Carrier equipment, you may want to consider having the Carrier equipment removed, and another brand installed.

Let me know your thoughts.

Regards.

mike_home:

I would so prefer a solution that did not require remove/refund.

My Dealer and Carrier folks have worked together. To test.. My Dealer installed a smart-room-sensor directly to the HVAC control-panel... It did not solve the problem. So pulling additional wires or wireless units are a solution.

Bottom-line: IF, the Carrier folks would just re-add the software function for zone-off... All would be good!

ccinpa - late to the game here but I think I can help. I'm also coming from an "older" infinity system (where you could mark the zone as unoccupied). I built a new home with two carrier infinity systems (10 zones) because I loved my last system.

You're right, you cant mark the zones as unoccupied when using the new infinity touch + remote zone therrmostats. However, I've noticed that when a zone is in "away" - it acts the exact same as the old "unoccupied" (e.g., when dehumidifying it will dump more air to the away zones; it will use away zones as a dump zone if needed, etc.).

I also agree that carrrier is horrendus with customer support. The systems are so advanvced that most installers have no idea how to work or design them, and carrierr will force you to their lacking dealer network.

Enjoy the system.

We have reached a point where a software work around is required to make an HVAC system work properly.

I forgot about this thread... Extracting "Zones".

Being persistent (PITA) can pay off... Literally!

A switch-panel for zone(s) control, and a little-something for my troubles... Thank-you Carrier folks!

yeah you would have had to have been a real PITA to get that out of Carrier. They just wanted to be done with you, I think?

The reason for Carrier's lacking dealer's network: Trying to get them to honor warranty coverage is worse than pulling teeth out of a mule.

It's easier to just stop using Carrier, plenty of other choices with less proprietary BS and an easier warranty claims function.

I just stumbled upon this thread. I just had a 36 seer infinity installed in my new home. It has five individually controlled zones. I thought I would save so much money being able to heat/cool only the areas in use. Nope! If I set one room to operate and the others with their dampers closed then yes that room is perfect and the other rooms have no air coming out the vents. But the returns are not on dampers do the conditioned air is sucked into the other rooms. At most I can get only a 3 degree difference in the different zones. I’m so disappointed. It seems to me the returns should be on dampers too but carrier said no. Thanks in advance for any comments.