Nickel, a doctor on the news says it is ok to use soap with lotion in it. What matters is to use soap period and scrub the hands.

There was a fun story in the LA Times about hand washing to different songs.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-03-03/coronavirus-hand-washing-20-seconds-happy-birthday-10-songs

Thanks for sharing this informationm, Mdln.

One of my sons has always been a thorough hand washer (it's an issue, frankly), and has perpetually dry skin. The only solution for him has been thick lotion at night with socks or gloves on his hands.

Isn't it the *friction* that kills germs, not the soap? I thought I'd read years ago that soap is not essential, and that cold water is as effective as hot. This was when we were encouraged to stop using anti-bacterial soap. (Are we to resume using that?)

I use CeraVe moisturizing cream in the pump jar on my thin skin -- all over after showers and on my hands during the day. I like their 'healing ointment' (dark blue tube) on my hands at night -- could probably just use plain vaseline, as the ingredients start with Mineral Oil and Parafin.

Chisie, both the soap and the friction is important. Soap and friction don't kill the germs, they wash them off your hands.

My MD Dermatologist recommends Aquaphor or O'Keeffe's Working Hands to soothe and heal dry skin. Since I allow him to screen me naked twice a year, I trust his recommendation.

Thanks for the hand cream and lotion soap recommendations! My dry skin (atopic dermatitis) has been so well controlled for 4 years now, that only products I have in the house are vaseline (too thick) and Jergen's lotion (too thin). Time to look closely at the soap and lotion aisles :-)

Something else that some folks can try using for the dry hands is a product called liquid gloves. Yes, you still have to keep washing your hands just as often, and apply the liquid gloves regularly, but the product helps shield your skin from the drying effect of the constant washing.

The liquid glove is also good for messy work like painting, etc. The paint, etc washes off your hands easier. I wonder is putting a barrier on your hand such as a moisturizer would facilitate the washing off of germs easier?

Thanks for that, reminded me yet again that I need to wash my hands longer than I do.

I will reiterate function on soap and water. Neither soap or friction kills anything. The friction loosens and the soap grabs and the water carries away. I remember learning that soap doesn't kill bacterial or virus. I just always assumed it did. Anti-bacterials were no more effective than ordinary detergents or plain soap but they can help breed more virulent bacteria. Anyway I did some research on the issue.

I always use a paper towel to dry my hands so I can retain it to open the door when I leave.

Thanks, patriciae -- I get it. When we wash we want to 'sluff' dirt, germs, whatever off our skin -- and water temperature has no bearing (other than comfort).

DH and I use the same towel to dry hands in the kitchen. I suspect it's futile for us to try to escape one another's germs by using paper there.

We use the same towel also in the kitchen and hand washing in the bath. I try to change he kitchen towel and cloth everyday since they are white and get grubby looking fast, but sometimes fail. I keep a box of pop up paper towels in the guest bath for anyone who doesn't want to use the towel.

Yea, pretty much if I got something my hubby is going to be exposed and vise a versa. After all mates share more than just towels.

Whadda ya do when you're a doc/nurse ...

... and your skin gets rubbed off?

o j

Totally agree with this, but it takes a different level of patience when you have 36 six year olds, 3 sinks and they all eat snack/lunch at the same time. By the time the last 3 are done, the first 3 have picked their noses, braided their friends hair, tied their shoes and, quite likely, scratched their bottoms. Then we all walk up the stairs to the cafeteria holding the handrail. Sigh.

According to the FDA via the NYT, hot water does matter in hand washing. It helps dissolve oils on our hands that can trap dirt and germs.

From the NYT:

Is it better to wash hands with warm or cold water?

In its medical literature, the Food and Drug Administration states that hot watercomfortable enough for washing hands is not hot enough to kill bacteria, but is more effective than cold water because it removes oils from the hand that can harbor bacteria.Oct 13, 2009

Thanks for the hand washing picture. I put it on Facebook so hopefully more will do it. I have been dealing with dry itchy hands too. So far I have used Blue Star Medicated Ointment, Vit. E ointment, Bag Balm, O'Keeffes, and vaseline. Today I even put a large bandage on the top of one hand so I couldn't scratch it as well. I've been using the Bag Balm at night with gloves but as soon as I start washing my hands, its 'back to square one. I'll try the Neutrogena .

I wanted to thank you Mdln for posting this. My sisters showed their kids and their kids are using the techniques with their grandkids now. It really helps to have the visual.

Here's something to try if increased hand washing is giving you dry skin. Apply a couple drops of vinegar to your hands after washing and drying. Rub the drops all over. The smell will go away in a couple minutes. See if that doesn't help right away. You can still apply your regular moisturizer right after the vinegar, but do try just the vinegar a time or two to see how far that goes to restore the feeling of dry skin.

From the NYT:

Is it better to wash hands with warm or cold water?

That was in 2009

CDC - March 4,2020The temperature of the water does not appear to affect microbe removal; however, warmer water may cause more skin irritation and is more environmentally costly.

According to CDC - March 4, 2020

While some recommendations include using a paper towel to turn off the
faucet after hands have been rinsed, this practice leads to increased
use of water and paper towels, and there are no studies to show that it
improves health.

Show Me The Science

Just wash your hands!

I am high-risk for two reasons: I'm WELL over age 60, and i take anti-rejection meds since my kidney transplant. i And a third: I had a regular old head cold last week, lasted about four days. i did phone my transplant doctor, who told me to take the usual precautions, don't visit an emergency room , urgent care place or come to the doctor's office . Just rest, stay home, eat drink and sleep well. I recently ran out of cleaning spray for my kitchen, so I poured some bleach solution on a cloth and ran it around my kitchen counters. Found out I had a small cut under my thumb nail. Ouch! But I live with two under age 5 grandchildren so I will continue cleaning as I see necessary. I have been watching a lot of TV.

Why do people persist in thinking that soap kills microbes? Of course it doesn't ! It just helps to make them slip off of your skin and wash away easier. Friction does not kill anything either. It just aids to dislodge the microbes.

And any water hot enough to kill microbes would leave you burned and blistered.

It is certainly more comfortable to wash your hands with warm water than cold water.

Even with washing your hands, they will quickly be contaminated once again if you touch whatever you touched before you washed them and that includes the faucet. I have often wished that there was a foot control to turn faucets on and off. I don't know why there is not. It would keep the hands from retouching the handle that you touched with dirty hands.

I always look for a paper towel to use to turn off faucets in a public place. When we stop at a highway rest stop I always take with me a paper napkin from a stash that I keep in the glove box and never actually touch anything with my hands, including that stall door. And, always remember to keep that napkin with a public side and a private side to it. Only touch one side of the napkin.

One thing that is really nasty is when you have to put your trash in one of those cans with the swinging door and you have to use your hand to open the trash door. Then, also if you have to use your hand to open the door of that public toilet, that is not good. I usually use my napkin all the way to the end of the job and will discard it only after opening the door with it. It is nice when the open trash is right there next to the door where you can use the paper to open the door, put you foot against it to hold it open and put the paper in the trash.

I find a keen desire to wash my hands after rolling a grocery cart around. It is the first thing I do when I get home. However, it is obvious that I have touched the grocery cart and every item that I put into the cart. So when I go to put away the groceries I am again touching the potentially contaminated surface. It is really hard, if not impossible, to really keep your hands free of things like a virus.

Never set your grocery items on the countertop where you prepare food or the table where you eat. I see a lot of women who think nothing of setting their purse on the table, the purse that they carried around all day and maybe even took into the public toilet with them or set on the seat next to them on the train or subway.

Sure it will help to wash you hands often, but everything that you touch after you wash your hands probably has the same microbes on it that you just washed off of your hands.

I just hate that hand sanitizer stuff. It is like snot on your hands. I keep a small spray bottle of alcohol to spray on the hands. Been doing that for years.

If you stop and think about all the microbes that are on how many surfaces that we can hardly avoid touching everyday it is amazing. I alway feel that my hands are really dirty when I am out in public. I hate those escalator hand rails. They have got to to be really, really nasty!!

People persist because it is partly true. Some soaps will kill SOME microbes, specifically enveloped viruses, which is what coronaviruses are. I used to work in medical diagnostic research and we used soap to inactivate (kill) some viruses that we used.

How soap kills coronavirus:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/11/21173187/coronavirus-covid-19-hand-washing-sanitizer-compared-soap-is-dope

My hands are raw from all the washing...even hand lotion stings now. Any suggestions?

If you don't already have OCD tendencies towards germs, this will certainly push you over the edge. I do understand the importance of cleanliness & not putting your hands to your mouth and eyes but it will not prevent spreading viruses 100%. When I see the bizarre interactions between people hoarding at the expense of everyone else it is simply embarrassing. Movies & shows like the Walking Dead make more sense now 😕.

Olychick, I think a lot of us are in the same boat. Of course I had to make things worse by washing walls. Lol. Tonight I'm going to try to use straight vitamin E oil on my hands before bed.

Olychick, I have a problem with my fingernails and water exacerbates it. So when I'm washing anything by hand I wear gloves. I wear thin latex or vinyl gloves when I go to the bathroom so that I will wash my gloves, still on my hands, rather than my hands directly. One still does a very thorough wash of the gloves. Or you could throw the gloves away if you know how to take them off without contaminating your hands. That saves wear and tear on my fingernails. If there are times you could wear and wash gloves (instead of skin) before a dirty task, it might make it easier on your skin.

I was already stocked up on gloves because of my fingernail problem, so I haven't checked to see if they've become scarce around here, but I have looked in stores at some of the other items being said to be hoarded and I still see them on the shelves. I live in a little bit lower income area, though, so maybe people just have not been able to buy them up; I'm not sure.

Edited to correct name.

Thanks, I don't use rubber gloves too often, but for some forgotten reason, I bought a double pack at Costco a few years ago, so am awash in gloves. that's a great idea to use them. I realized it's not so much from washing as using hand sanitizer. I switched to a more gentle liquid soap (I still use nice bar soap usually - but sometimes the Palmolive at the kitchen sink....oops) and will look for more of the same tomorrow as well as some unscented lotion, balm for my hands.

Hand sanitizer can destroy skin so quickly. I love the thick coconut body butter from Trader Joe's if you have one nearby. It heals the skin up quickly.

I heard on the national radio the other day that we should remenber to (wash?)/sanitize our "third hand", as they called it.

Our cell/smart phone.

Unless we clean it - there go the "clean hands" (well, O.K - ONE clean hand) the moment we touch it.

Don't remember if or what suggestions they may have offered as to appropriate cleansing agents: sorry about that.

ole joyful

Turn off the phone, wipe it down with Lysol wipes. Dry it with a microfiber cloth. I'm planning on drowning the case in a bleach solution and let it air dry. We should do this on a routine basis anyhow.

What I don't understand is why there isn't a run on gloves. All this don't touch touch touch. Makes more sense than masks that don't cover enough.

For those that want a smile

Thank you "It's a Southern Thing"

This site has some instructions for cleaning the cell phone. They also mention UV lights.

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/keep-coronavirus-off-your-phone-how-to-effectively-clean-and-disinfect-your-device/

My cell phone is in a Lifeproof case which is waterproof so it would be safe to use the Clorox wipe on it.

At this time there are no reported case of the virus in the UP of Michigan which is 88,000 square miles. Still, not one roll of TP on the store shelves.

P&G may be a buy today.

I clean my phone with alcohol swabs that I buy at the pharmacy, like the ones they clean your skin with before an injection. They are the perfect size and just a little damp so no excess fluid. So far I haven't had any negative issues with doing so on the phone itself so i'll keep doing it.

My phone is either in my purse or in my house and no one else uses it so I don't see how it could become a fomite.

Chi, I use the prep pads too. Excellent cleaner and inexpensive. Also approved by Apple.

Look for a new product from Apple - iWipes. Expect them to be double the price of competing products but they're specially formulated to be super compatible with all Apple products.

I tried to get alcohol prep pads today at 2 places and they were cleaned out. I also need them for some ivf injections coming up so i'm praying my pharmacy will have them.

People are behaving like animals. I just went to Target for normal shopping and there was no toilet paper or hand sanitizer and people were stealing items out of other people's carts. Madness.

Hi Raye Smith

If your hand, after picking up that nasty virus somewhere and was carrying that nasty virus and you used your phone, after it being in your purse or while in your house ...

... then you wash your hands carefully ...

... does your phone have an automatic de-viruser that kicks those viruses off so it doesn't reinfect your hand when you touch it later?

ole joyful

I use Bausch and Lomb lens cleaners for small wipes, computer, phone, steering wheel and emergency hand wipes. They are alcohol based and I have a huge supply because I've used them like that for a long time, plus to clean my glasses.

Joyful, so both my leather, fabric lined purse & my fabric-backed phone need to be washed...

I do use an anti-virus app on my phone, not the same thing though ;)

Interesting, no one has mentioned washing the most common fomite that we all use - cash. It carries more germs than any other common item.

I avoid touching money as much as I can and always wash afterwards. It really is so gross.

I have sometimes been teased about how often I wash my hands. So nothing much has changed for me. I also have a pretty paper towel holder in the main/guest bath instead of hand towels. My DD thought it was silly. Then grandson came home with hand,foot and mouth disease. Paper towel holder went up immediately in her main bath. :-)

Jody went ahead and left for Florida. I am "self quarantined"....as I am every time I get a chance...long before I ever heard of this virus, simply because I like being by myself. I have 70 waterlilies to repot. I will have to venture out eventually because I only have horse feed for 5 days and 4 rolls of toilet paper, and a dr. appt. on Monday. I will take care of all that on Monday.

Mdln, I just want to thank you to you and all the other ER doctors and nurses who put themselves as risk to care for others. It's very appreciated, especially in these scary times. I hope everyone does their part to help lesson the load on our healthcare system.

@Chi, thank you.

Interesting video, https://youtu.be/cbX0xwKORjk