The same nutritionist (highly regarded professional recc by my primary care doctor) who told me to have half a banana (which I do agree with) also told me, after working with me about 18 months, that he thought I should eat 800 calories a day to reach and maintain my (reasonable) goal weight. I was using MFP to track (great program btw) and pretty doctrinaire. My WL stalled at 1000 cal/day and his advice was to go down to 800.*

My reply was ... no. I think sometimes we need to find a way of eating that feels good to us, and accept the body that results, rather than decide we have to be a certain weight or size at any price.

*I know this could span a whole 'nother thread, but he totally did not believe that eating too little slowed your metabolism, a popular theory. I think he is right about that. IMHO the research shows a pretty mild slowing of metabolism and it occurs only at the point you have very low body fat already.I just didn't want to eat 800cal.

PS what is a Bodybugg? Don't think there are any reliable msmt devices for retail consumes?

Mtn, I agree. The MFP made me more aware of serving sizes and snacking habits. But I couldn't sustain the calorie counting and restrictions. I'm the primary cook in my family and I truly enjoy food. IF fully accommodates this, and I do not count calories. But it's an unconventional approach that goes against our cultural norms of meal patterns.

Feathers, I like the ideas behind IF. I have tried it once or twice, but haven't hit upon a good way for me.

The easiest way to star with IF is to do a twelve hour. First meal at 7AM stop eating 7PM.

DD’s BF did and extreme one with a very short window to eat. It’s great if you don’t socialize and live alone but for the most part it was very disruptive to others. Our joke was, “What time do you have to shut the window?”

I remembers years ago people talking about not eating past dinner.

Eld, I have no idea! I just kind of lost my whole mojo, sadly. One thing I learned in the summer is I don't do well with unstructured time (hello, coronavirus). This is a good time to restart and start tracking again. I certainly have all the time I need for exercise now. It's just so frustrating because there really is no excuse.

900 calories is 18 WW points......which is what a 130 lb person was allowed....there was a range (maybe to 23?) but I was gaining, no matter what.

@mtn a Body Bugg was a predecessor to the Fitbit. It was worn on the upper arm, and tracked steps and supposedly, metabolism.

I JUST realized most of my post did not....I must have lost signal.....

I am doing Code Red Lifestyle. I started with a 10 Pound Takedown Challenge on FB. CR is a combination of LCHF and IF. Eat when you are hungry, eat only until you are full: meat, fat, non-starchy vegetables. No sugar, grains, alcohol, potatoes, fruit (except berries). Drink a gallon of water per day, sleep at least 7 hours, do NOT eat after 6:30 PM.

I actually do know something about the BodyBugg. It is also known as the SenseWear arm band from a company called BodyMedia. It had all these years of really good R&D on it and lots of independent research. I was even on someone's masters thesis for a validation study. It had an accelerometer and a skin temperature sensor and could provide heart rate, step counts way before there was anything like this from FitBit or Apple Watch. And it was pretty accurate compared to gold-standard lab measures. BUT, after all that they sold the company to Jawbone, for $100 million (can't blame them; I'd take it too) who then pretty much shortly thereafter went bankrupt, and there is no more.

For the last 2 months, I’ve been on a ridiculous diet, one where you buy a bunch of highly-processed, horrid tasting “food.” DD wanted to lose her baby weight; her college roommate is selling this program (some sort of MLM scheme); I told DD I would do it with her to be supportive. DD is a serious exercise-aholic. She is also serious about nutrition. It didn’t take us but a few days to realize this “diet” was awful. 5 times a day you eat some sort of bar or shake and once a day you have a real meal of lean meat and green veggies.

DD and I are eating up what we bought, but we won’t be buying more. I managed to lose 14 lbs and I feel better for having lost the weight, but this diet is not sustainable for me or DD. The only good thing about the diet is that it is totally mindless. Reach in the box, pull out a bar, eat it. Nevertheless, the fakeness of the food kinda creeps me out.

My weight loss epiphany was carbs. Good and bad. When I greatly reduced them, the weight fell off. This work from home will be my undoing. I stocked up on carbs for my DH who exercises constantly and is thin. Bread, pasta, pretzels, rice, potatoes, crackers, etc. And now I've been picking at them.

Yeah, I hear you BBSTX. Mindlessness is helpful but OTOH no one wants to eat that yucky stuff for very long!

Gscience, what an interesting field you are in. I thought Springorz meant she had something that measured her metabolism.

Springroz, if you're not eating after 6:30, then IF would be rather easy to adapt to. It took me a few months, and I experimented with various methods of IF. But now I enjoy my fasting hours--I feel cognitively sharper and less bloated. Inflammation is a real effect from the food we eat, and when we eat it. We simply do not need to eat morning, noon and night.

And while I don't have time to pull up the research, you don't have to do IF every day. At one point, I was choosing just 2 or 3 days a week to do it based on my schedule, and I still experienced positive results.

Eld, i think I must have been doing something longer than a 12 hour?

ETA - Ahh yes, i just found it ---- I tried it when I read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/well/eat/the-benefits-of-intermittent-fasting.html

16 hours was hard for me: I think I will try starting with 12.

Mtn, at the time it really was the closest thing to a portable metabolic cart. it did cost several hundred dollars and require a subscription for the software. I have no idea how it would compare to a Fitbit or Apple Watch but overall similar technology.

Now we have this portable backpack system that we can use for field based measurement that has a 1/4 mile range or it can be used on something like a treadmill or cycle. It is super expensive, so not anything a consumer would ever have. There is a face mask that goes over the nose and mouth. Gosh knows when we'll be able to use it again, unfortunately. :(

I joined Noom in mid-November of 2019 and am down 40#. I'm actually over all the little psychological tips and down to just counting calories at this point, but it gave me a really good start. I live alone so it's easy for me to avoid having tempting snacks in the house. And I've gotten on a routine of the same breakfast every day, a few alternating lunches, and a few more alternating dinners. The less I have to think about food, the less I have to think about food.

Great job!

That's awesome, Jakabedy! I have a friend who has been pretty successful with Noom, too.

I thought for sure I would gain weight when I stopped working as hard as I was before. But I have not gained an ounce.

I initially lost my excess weight by exercising like a lunatic. I have maintained that weight loss of 50 odd pounds for the last 10 years.

I cannot change the number of calories I eat but I can and do intermittent fasting. In other words I eat the number of calories I need for my blood sugar to maintain itself.

I start eating at 10:30ish a.m. and finish eating around 4:30 or 5 p.m.. Very occasionally my blood sugar drops and I have to eat something. It seems to happen once every 3 weeks or so but the rest of the time it's as if I were just like everyone else and didn't have blood sugar problems. :-)

I'm interested in hearing more about Noom, Jakabedy.

And, how much does it cost?

Yes, tell us more about Noom.

Such interesting perspectives from everyone.

Mtn, I can't imagine 800 calories a day as maintenance. But I also can't imagine half a banana being satisfying. I clearly have a portion control problem, which is why I have always gravitated to IF, even before it was a thing.

I am a bit terrified about how much weight I stand to put on cooped up at home with cooking/baking as a form of entertainment for the whole family! Add to that no spin, and no barre classes and I feel my jeans tightening already. (While exercise is not of much help for losing weight, it allows me to have treats and maintain my weight.)

This has been a very interesting read! Since I retired in July 2018 my weight has zigzagged like a drunk hailing a taxi. I became a much more serious cook, and a couple of years of Marcella Hazan’s Italian food, while delicious, is lethal. Illnesses caused DH and I both to lose significant weight, too much at times. We are now in the process of trying to find an equilibrium between food and health. I have been doing the noon to 8 pm IF and DH has been trying to stick to a ketogenic diet. The eight hour window is draconian and I cannot do it seven days a week. We’ve been swimming and doing water aerobics but the pool is shut for the immediate future.

Noom: It's an app. It's not dissimilar from other calorie trackers, but it has a psychological overlay. You get several lessons or interactive tasks each day to help you reframe your attitude toward food. At first I thought it was silly, but I came to realize it was helpful (for me) on a subconscious level. There's also a "group" component for support. However, each month people fall by the wayside and disparate groups are combined to keep the group going. It means you lose your close little group from month 1, and I haven't been that into the group since then. Finally, there is a personal coach. I wasn't much for that either, as I felt he was simply popping in with a smile to ask open-ended questions selected from a list - not so "personal." But that's probably just me being my typical jaded self. Others may find much more success.

The app allows you to set your weight loss goal speed and assigns calorie limits and walking goals according to that and your starting weight. As you lose, the calorie goal decreases.

The calorie tracking part of the app works pretty well with lots of name brand items in there. And a large part of the focus is on choosing calorie dense "green" foods (veggies, etc.) vs mediocre "yellow" foods (chicken breast) vs. the least dense "red" foods (sweets, cheeses, etc.). It helps you make more filling selections with your limited calories.

It's $30 a month, or was when I started. I paid $120 for four months worth. I'll probably keep it for the next four months and if I'm self sustaining at that point will just shift over to a regular calorie counting app.

I should add that I did the Whole 30 in July of last year and was miserable. I'm not one who enjoys cooking when I LIKE what I'm making, so going to all that effort to shop for the right ingredients and make something that is similar-ish to a standard dish . . . just wasn't for me. I'm much better off just counting calories and trying to skew toward healthier choices. I'm in such a routine now that I eat the same thing for breakfast every day, rotate a couple of lunches, and a couple of dinners. I allow myself two meals out per week (or I did before CoronaFest '20). I think Noom as well as some counseling for other areas (work drama, post-divorce stuff) has helped me get into a much better place overall where I'm able to have a more healthy attitude toward food. It's no longer a big part of my life. It's just something I need to do, like brush my teeth and clip my nails.

Good for you, Jakabedy. Sometimes we need a whole overhaul of our attitude toward food. It's not just about the act of eating, but so much more. Congratulations on what you have accomplished!

So glad to hear you are on a good path... not just Noom but everything it seems, Jakabedy. : )

Congratulations to all who have been successful! I feel like I’m a hamster on a wheel re losing weight—-going round and round and getting nowhere. Eating out is problematic for me. If I’m going to go out and order broiled chicken and steamed broccoli I just as soon stay home. OTOH, I have found that one meal out can totally negate a week of counting calories and losing a pound or two.

I’m not sure I could do IF for 8 hours but 12 hours seems more plausible. I vacillate trying to decide—count calories or low carb? Low carb does sustain me for a longer period but is it realistic to cut out food groups over the long haul? It’s a never ending struggle that’s for sure.

Joaniepoanie - that’s exactly where I am with eating out. Why bother unless it’s something really special? Of course I’m single with no kids or significant other, so I don’t regularly find myself “stuck” eating out. I’m very intentional with my eating out. I only go once or twice a week and only get things I know I’ll really enjoy and which I’d never make myself. That way I don’t really have regret when I plan ahead for the calories and blow almost a whole day’s allotment for cashew chicken and brown rice from my favorite Chinese place.

On those occasions where I’m stuck, for instance lunch with a friend before a movie, I try to steer toward a place that I like. And one advantage of counting calories rather than limiting food groups is that I can have anything. It’s just the portion size I need to control.

Jakabedy.....just curious....what is your calorie range? I try to stay around 1400-1500.

Joanie, I find in order to lose weight, I need to cap it at 1200. 1400-1500 would be more like maintenance for me.

Bravo Jakabedy.

Dieting is a mindset. I agree about eating out but I am okay with getting something simple if it turns out my weight is up. On those times I try to focus on looking forward to the company, the ambience, the fact that I am not cooking etc. my choice also would be something I would not make at home, so it seems special in that way.

When I know in advance, I try to cut back accordingly so I can splurge more.

My diet mantras are: plan, mindful portions and modify as needed.

Noom has accountability to someone other than yourself as does WW. I think this is key.

Eld6161, I do the same thing when eating out and now that I am in the maintenance place, order a cheeseburger and fries or something else really delicious. Not always though.

If anyone is interested in looking into IF (with your newfound free time), I would suggest Dr. Jason Fung (very sciency) - via youtube or The Obesity Code or The Diabetes Code. Also Gin Stephens (easier read) - Delay, Don't Deny) - Gin also has a FB group, free podcasts. A wonderful thing about IF is that is totally FREE. It is fascinating stuff. And has health benefits beyond weight loss.

joanie - When I started my cap was 1,500. My current cap at -40# is 1,380. But keep in mind that's tethered to amount of exercise and current weight, which is still quite high (admission against interest: 295#) and amount of exercise. If you're smaller than me (and let's be honest, who isn't?) and don't exercise a lot, you may need to be lower than 1,400-1,500 to see movement.

I've lost 11 pounds by doing intermittent fasting. I do it about 3 times a week. I generally eat the same meal on the fast days. I eat a hard-boiled egg, English muffin, four slices of bacon, and cherry tomatoes with dressing, along with a mug of tea. It works for me taste-wise because I haven't eaten breakfast. I eat the meal between 2-3:00. Around 6:00 PM, I'll have dessert which is another mug of tea and something sweet like a 110 calorie chocolate VitaTop muffin.

I've read some hints on Alternate Day fasting which include 1) Eat the same meal on the fast day and 2) only weigh yourself the day after a fast day.

Interesting thread! Congrats Jakabedy on your success! I truly believe we must look at eating to lose weight/and to be healthy as a life style change not a diet. As others have mentioned, a change in lifestyle many times affects our diet. Now that I don't work, and because I enjoy cooking, I spend more time on cooking. But I have gotten out of my "good place" and need to cut some of the carbs/sugar from our diet. That is generally how we eat, somewhat low carb, lots of veggies, lean mean and some fruit, but we have gotten a little lax. We also need to cut down on our butter and cheese. In stocking up for this pandemic, I actually looked up freezing cheese and bought extra cheese and froze. Like we can't go a few weeks without cheese!! We do eat out usually a couple of times a week, maybe more if lunching with friends, etc. but I do believe you can make healthy choices eating out - you just have to think about where you are going and what you are going to order. I have a friend whose husband had a heart attack a few years ago. He had a stint put in but drs wanted to do bypass surgery. My friend's husband was SO against this. They researched and ended up going to the Cleveland Clinic to attend a class and meet drs there who promote a certain diet for heart health. They follow the diet religiously. It's a hard diet to stick with but they both lost weight, feel great (honestly my friend GLOWS) and have so much energy!! That's probably been around 5 years ago and he has so far avoided surgery. His cardiologist here is amazed at how he's turned his health around. So, when the girls meet up for lunch, we know places to go where my friend can order something on her eating plan. I generally eat a late breakfast (9-10) and then skip lunch and have dinner. On days I do eat lunch, it's usually yogurt or something like that. Anyhoo, that's a goal for me right now - to get back on track and add more exercise. Weather is great for walking, so that part should be easy. Exercise may not do much for weight loss, but it makes me feel better, gives me energy and keeps me agile. And agile is something I think about as we age. My dad's issues/age (90) have made me see how important it is to think of that. So good luck and good health to all of us!!

I have not read all the responses. I cook and make mostly clean food but I do sometimes eat out at work. I think clean eating and activity is the secret!

Half a banana wouldn't cut it for me either. My problem was snacking and not eating properly, so I was hungry between meals. I started ordering us Hello Fresh meals early August. We quickly went from 4 meals a week to 5, to 6. I've steadily lost weight, now down 14.5lbs. I am okay with myself at this weight, but would like to shed 3lbs more. I also only eat between 9am (huge bowl of cereal) and 2pm, with a few Enjoy Life Chocolate Chunks around 4pm for something sweet. I'm just not hungry between meals anymore and don't crave carbs or sweets either.

I've always found you must find what works for you, and that changes as we age. It's similar for me, but still changes somewhat.

Stoop1r is a serial necrospammer. Please flag.

Done- sushi

I cook more now that I’m retired, but I normally only eat two meals a day now. I eat “brunch” around 11 and then dinner in the evening, typically around 6.

I was talking to a fellow who lost 25 lbs on noom and he was telling me about it. So I mentioned it to my WW leader and said how familiar most of it sounds. He said that the folks who started it are ex-WW people. Interesting.

Please allow me to brag on my little family.... The 3 of us have lost Almost 250 lbs!! My DH has Lost 122, my DS, about 65, and me, 60. I have maintained for 9 months now. Real food, water, and sleep....I never counted anything, because I did WW before, and I get stressed being reminded of it, LOL. I only eat when I am hungry, drink a gallon of water every day, and don’t eat anything after 6:30 PM.

Occasionally, I think I could still lose 10 more pounds, but I now wear most companies’ smallest size pants. I do not want to move into children’s sizes.

Congrats to you all, Springroz! That's fantastic!

Agree on not counting calories.

Wow!!! Congratulations! That's a real accomplishment!!

Springroz, that is awesome! That is such a good, healthy way. I think I drink alot of water, then realize not as much as I should. Congrats to all of you!!

Just saw this thread popped up again. Congrats Springroz! Anything else in particular you did?

Thanks, everyone!!

@Joaniepoanie No, in fact, since the woman who developed the program touts it “without exercise”, I decided to test it. We started the program on September 15, and I sat. I normally get 18,000 to 20,000 steps a day, but there were many days that I did not get 9,000....Even so, I lost 1/3 lb per day, average. That was WAY faster loss than WW was, and I was not hungry and stressed and paying every week....

What really amazed me was the way I could SEE the hormones in the women balance. They went from kind of masculine looking in the before pics, to feminine looking in the after shots.

Thanks Springroz——I’m lucky to get in 1/2 gal of water and 20,000 steps—-not even in my wildest dreams! Good on you!

Congrats Springroz. That is a huge accomplishment.

I'm curious as to what program you used @Springroz? Very interesting about the hormones!

There are so many false ideas promoted in the posting by Springroz. I have pursued physical fitness for 4 decades. I won't even attempt to link all the articles that de-bunk the loss of femininity due to exercise and weight lifting. There are too many to list. Just do a Google search on Testosterone and women. We have it and we need it and we can't do without it.

As far as the idea of reducing movement to increase weight loss. I can't let this pass without citing at least one link. Again please do your research. There isn't ANYTHING worse for the human body than reduced movement and exercise. Nothing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3567319/.

https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/downloads/growing_stronger.pdf