I use trellises much like hers, If I were starting over I think I would use cages. When I started growing more tomatoes I lived in town and did not have a lot of storage room. Tee post, rebar , cattle panels and emt store better for me. I now try to leave my trellises up year around, but I live in the country now. I am also trying to learn to clean the garden with a weed burner. The jury is still out on the weed burner, but the past two years it has been so wet here that burning anything is harder to do. I am thinking more and more about spraying my garden this year. I am going to try pruning some of my plants more heavily like they do in her garden. I have more trouble with disease with the very bushy plants. In general, the soil is better in central Arkansas than it is where I live.

Ha, Larry! And Lynn. I saw another video about the trellising. This is it. I love Growing a Greener World, anyway, and thought this might be a good deal for us. As she said, "Economical." That's definitely a consideration for us. I like the idea of better air flow, also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c_eWD0d1Zs (At about the 9 minute mark. . . ) We had a LOT of fencing wire, and so decided to try some of that instead of buying the panels. If that doesn't work, we'll get the panels this fall. But Larry, I'm curious about why you'd use cages if you were starting over. What are the cons I'm not thinking of? I explained to GDW that this more or less permanent set-up won't work, because we move the tomatoes around from year to year. So we may end up getting the cattle panels anyway, for next year. IF this fence doesn't prove too flimsy, we can train other veggies up it next year. And set up another trellis in a different bed. (Did I just nail one of the cons?)

Nancy, I think I would like cages in a half moon shape or an "L" shape, and just stack them together out of sight somewhere. I have never tried them, I am just thinking I would like them, I would like to try them first. I have too many supplies for building trellises now to change over to cages I dont have many years left to work in the garden. I plan on doing some containers this year, and I expect I will want to do more and more of them and turn the gardens back into lawn.

Nancy, if you go back up this thread to where I had the 4 pictures of the wildlife garden you can see part of what I am trying to do now. The first picture where I was showing the turnips blooming, and stating how the bees were all over the blooms, you can see the trellis I built in the wildlife garden. It is somewhat like the ones at Roots and Refuge. Mine differs by having a bar over the top of the cattle panel. You can see that the trellis is pretty clean. I burn off the old vines and strings that I had holding the tomatoes to the trellis. I try to burn some of the mulch and along the ground trying to kill disease also. I tried to keep up with the tomatoes and keep weaving the vines in and out of the trellis. I get behind every year and have to use a lot of binder twine to keep the tomatoes TIED to the trellis, this happens every year. I hope to prune the tomatoes enough this year so I can just push the tomatoes through the openings on the trellis, and use very little twine. The twine is not a problem, because I buy it in spools of several thousand feet, its just that I never have it with me. I try leaving a supply hanging on the trellis, but it is never enough and it is too painful to walk back to the shop for more twine.

If you look at the trellis picture you can see what a mess I have. I want to mow down each side of the trellis, but it has been too wet to get the mower over there.

Nancy, I am sorry. I was thinking I was on the 5th week thread, but anyway, if you go back to look at the pictures you will see what I mean.

I've always used cages. Everyone I have known for my whole life has used cages., and I'm talking as far back as the 1960s. For most people they work extremely well. You control the air flow by the size of the cages you make, how far apart you place them, and how much you avoid using excess nitrogen which gives you excess limbs that then eventually need to be pruned away anyway. People who put the cages 4' to 6' apart have a lot better air flow and a lot less disease than those who put them 2' or 3' apart, but most people don't have the space to put plants that far apart.

The only person I know personally who attempted trellises in the same neighborhood where we lived so I can watch how it worked out myself was a first year gardener with too much shade in the first place, and then she pruned so relentlessly that she never got a single tomato. She did not want anyone to tell her what she was doing wrong because she had read a book written by someone in an entirely different part of the country and she thought she knew what she was doing. She didn't even take suggestions from her own husband well. It was just sad, sad, sad. I know that none of you would get that carried away and prune off all your future fruit.

Early Blight is more or less inevitable once it is in the soil in your area. It is in the soil and it doesn't go away unless you rotate all nightshade family plants (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplant, datura, petunias, etc.) out of the soil for several years. Early Blight can travel (and great distances too) through the air, through the soil, and through water, so better air flow will help up to a point, but it will not completely eliminate it. Mulching will help up to a point, but the mulch must be thick and cover a wide area around the plants to prevent soil splash during rain from carrying up EB spores onto the plants. Rotating plants to an entirely new area that is not too close to where tomatoes or other nightshades grew the previous 3 years also helps prevent early blight in the current season, but many gardeners don't have the space to rotate tomato plants on a 3-year or 4-year rotation.

You also have to be very selective with any pruning you do here in our climate because too much pruning will leave your fruit exposed to our excessively intense sunlight and they will sunscald and be ruined. You have to remember to disinfect your pruners as you move from plant to plant pruning so you aren't spreading any possible EB fungal spores as you prune. You have to disinfect your cages and stakes every year to make sure they aren't harboring pathogens.

I just accept that early blight is inevitable at some point and deal with it when it shows up. It is less of a problem in dry years, but look how long it has been since we've had a really dry year. I mulch well and I remove the lower limbs on the plants slowly over time as the plants grow because it is those lower limbs down close to the ground that get EB from soil splash, even despite careful mulching.

Switching to growing tomatoes in containers with a fresh soil-less mix, fresh mulch, and decontaminated stakes and cages can get you off to a good start in the spring, but even then, you may see EB blow in on the wind at some point. When I rotate tomato plants out of the main garden to containers, I try to put the containers a good 150-200' from either fenced garden so they are as far as possible from any existing spores of EB. I also have found less of an Early Blight issue occurs in containers if I set them on the lawn, not on bare soil, even though I mulch the bare ground as soon as I fill up the containers in order to plant the tomato plants. It may be the lawn grass is working similar to mulch to reduce soil splash.

You also have to make sure all your tomato plant debris from existing years is composted in a steaming hot compost pile so none of the fungal spores survive, or you can spread early blight right back into your soil when you use cold composted that never got hot enough to kill the pathogen. Or, alternately, you can just bag up all the diseased tomato foliage and ship it off with the household garbage at the end of the season, or burn it on your brush pile if you're rural.

Most people I know who have massive early blight issues use far too much nitrogen, so be sure you're avoiding excess nitrogen. All it does is fuel more foliar growth which hurts air flow and leaves more foliage for EB pathogens to land on. You walk a fine line, though, because the foliage of the plants serves as the photosynthesis factory that fuels plant growth and fruit production. Remove too much foliage (or grow too little in the first place) and you won't get good fruit set.

Some commercial, hybrid varieties of tomatoes now have some sort of tolerance of Early Blight, which does not necessarily mean they do not get it. It simply means that when they get it, it progresses more slowly and kills the plants more slowly.

Some people have switched to growing their tomatoes in high tunnels to keep rainfall off their tomato foliage, and that can work to reduce or almost eliminate early blight if they are careful to maintain good air flow so they don't have condensation form inside their high tunnels on the greenhouse plastic and then drip moisture down onto the plants. Most people who grow in high tunnels prune a lot and water only with drip irrigation at the ground level. They grow using black plastic to cover the soil, etc. Many folks who go to this much trouble are growing high-producing hybrid tomato varieties bred for greenhouse and tunnel production.

If I wanted to try trellising tomato plants, I'd go 50-50 and plant half in cages, and half on trellises, right there together in the same garden and compare how they two different methods performed using some of the same varieties of tomatoes for each technique so it is a fair test. That would give you a good idea of which method was going to work best for you and whether or not one method is superior to the other. If you try cages one year and trellises the next, you'll never know if the technique was what made the difference or if it was the weather or what.

Some years I have a lot of early blight, some years I see almost none. Some years it wipes out plants in June, other years the plants outlast it and produce in the fall. EB is sort of like squash vine borers....it shows up most years, but every now and then we get a year where it never shows up....just like the SVBs, which show up here about 8 years out of 10.

I've used the panels for many years and it is a pain to keep the plants tied up. I'm using cages this year in wicking tubs. I have 52 tubs for tomatoes with cages.

I used the panels because I was pulling them out every year and they were easier to store out of the way. I'll leave the cages in the tubs over winter and they will stay out of my way. I'm hoping there will be enough ventilation since there is no plastic on the top or sides, just the end walls.

I have hardware cloth around the side to keep the critters out. There are 98 tubs total in the grow frame. I have about 40 more in my greenhouse.

We use trellises. I would like to have CRW cages, but Ron thinks it will rust. We have used welded wire fencing for trellises, but you can't put your hand through it. I have heard of people cutting holes in it so they could use it for cages and still harvest, but I come out bloody from every encounter I have with it. Can't imagine sticking my hand through cut out holes. Like Larry I think my ideal cage would be a cattle panel piece bent in an L shape. It could then be zip tied into a square or a zig zag that could be half trellis half cage. Ron and I have talked about doing a few of these a year, but it hasn't happened.

We arch cattle panels between the beds, which we can tie tomatoes to, or we use a straight panel down the middle of the bed. Disadvantages? Like Larry said, you are always behind in tying plants up, or you break them trying to weave them into the trellis.

I've never grown in good cages, but you still have to anchor them, with what? T post? That gets expensive and is additional work. I hate having to wait for help putting up trellises. I can't do it myself physically. I probably couldn't do cages alone either. We have a pretty good system, 2 4x8 beds butted together making 16' beds. We have 4 of those. A cattle panel is 16' long and 4' wide. Right now we have panels laying over the tops of the beds to keep the dogs from digging up the seedlings. We will arch them between the beds later. And probably do one straight trellis down the middle of one bed. I grow beans and cow peas and cucumbers on the arches as well.

I am in a national FB group where there is an annual argument about pruning or not. People get downright hot over this issue. I won't do it because I need less work not more. I remove lower branches and hope for the best, LOL.

My cages are 18" diameter. A couple years ago I made a couple that were 24". And the blight got those plants just the same. They could've produced more tomato, but that's really hard to measure. But I would like to enlarge all my cages to 24". I'm planting 5 feet apart in row with rows 4 foot apart.

I don't think I like the idea of having to constantly tend to the plants, either tying them to the trellis or pruning. And I'm really happy with my production now. I think I'll stick to cages. Thanks for all the above input.

And oh yeah, I use 4' X 3/8" rebar to anchor my cages, one per each plant, some may need two. I've been just running them down between the openings in the cage, but this year I might go to zip ties.

I drove some old oil field pipe into the ground and baling wired a long sucker rod along the top for an arbor. Then I use jute twine to tie the vines up to the sucker rod and make a Florida weave type of thing with it all. I use a few hog wire cages in various places as well.

HU

The best tomato year I had I used a system like a local gardener friend. Fencing double run 100’ About 18” apart. Rows were 30” apart.

I had tried cages, trellising ( which I was no good at)

I was amazed how easy this was. I did three rows that year and actually put the tunnels too close to each other.

most prolific year ever.

Amy, The CRW cages do rust, but they still work. My dad used his for over 30 years, and I don't really remember a time when they weren't rusty. I don't care for the rusty look, so I made mine out of heavy gauge field fencing and have had them forever (at least 30 years for the oldest ones and probably at least 20 years for the newer ones I added after moving here and having space to plant more tomatoes) and they haven't rusted yet. I have cut 'portholes' in my cages in a limited number of locations and was careful to cut as close to the wires as possible so I didn't have little stubs sticking out to cut me. I rarely cut myself on them. How much you do or don't need to cut portholes depends on how large the openings in your cages are and how large your tomatoes are. All things considered, I'd rather have these cages, with all their drawbacks, than to not have them at all. Maybe in a perfect world and with an endless budget, I'd have Texas Tomato Cages, but they're just too expensive for me given that I grow dozens of plants in an average year. Maybe if I was a little old lady with 1, 2 or 3 plants, then I'd have the TTCs.

I do anchor them with metal t-posts and those posts are expensive. We have a large collection of them we amassed over many years' time. Some plants only get 3' or 4' tall t-posts, some get 6' tall posts, and some get 8' tall posts. With our frequent thunderstorms and strong winds, I wouldn't attempt to stake the cages with anything less than sturdy t-posts. Like everything else in the garden, the t-posts are an investment.

One thing I particularly love about the cages is that once you put them up and stake them, you aren't having to spend additional time tying up plants, etc. You're done and you're good to go until it is time to pull out the stakes and put up the cages at the end of the tomato-growing season. I like the look of the Florida weave is a person is in an area with some wind protection, but I wouldn't like the time spent weaving.

I stay out of the 'to prune' or 'not to pune' arguments. People have to find what works best for them in their climate and their local conditions, and what works well for somebody in their area tends to be the only great method according to them. Those are arguments nobody ever is going to win. I wish everyone could accept that different methods work for different people.

I remember years ago that Texas A&M or somebody in our area did research and said that plants allowed to sprawl on the ground produced the most tomatoes compared to those trellised or caged. I don't doubt this and I did a limited test in a fairly dry year where I left a small number of plants to sprawl and they did indeed produce more fruit per plant than the caged plants. This issue, however, is that plants sprawling on the ground lose more fruit to disease and pests, and I felt like we lost enough fruit to anthracnose (not an issue on my upright plants) to negate the heavier production values. Plus, they take up a whole lot more room sprawling horizontally then they do when held upright by any method. In my location, I'd have to be more careful harvesting than I already am because of the timber rattlers that slip out of the adjacent woodland and into the garden.

Robert, Your set-up looks really nice! I'm assuming you intend to sell tomatoes this year...or....I see a ton of canning in your future.

Dawn

I probably should consider going to T-Posts to anchor. But my backyard is wind protected somewhat, by the house and a stockade fence.

Originally I used 1/4" X 4 rebar, but when the plants got larger, those rebar bent.

I don't like driving the T-Bar posts though. Working with a 5# sledge at shoulder level or higher, is not easy. I've thought about buying one of those special tools but I do that so rarely , its not worth the expense.

I have to use a t post driver, I have had one for a long time, and doubt I will live long enough to wear it out, I doubt that my kids will long enough to wear it out. I have lost it a few times and had to go around looking on t post. It may be a good idea to paint it a bright color. The driver hangs on a t post some where in one of the garden all year long.

My dad uses 2 rows of cattle panels and plants between the panels. That keeps the plants somewhat contained and doesn't require much tying. I have a trellis, then use some cages for my containers.

Tpost driver is worth the money and will last forever like Larry said.

I drove 3 yesterday and my body is telling me about it

We purchased a tpost driver a couple of years ago. It's worth it like Kim said.

I'm trying the cattle panels and using trellis clips this year. We have a lot of wind in Western Oklahoma. The wind just blows the cages over. Appalachia's Homestead with Patara - Cattle Panels and Tomatoes Youtube

On Oklahoma Gardening TV , OETA , this weekend, they did a segment on using cattle panels for a trellis. They found a " bull panel " that worked best.

Trellis appealed to me , cuz as I understood, I could plant 2 ft apart within rows. But did not like the idea of having to prune often. Says in this segment, that all it takes is twice a week, going through and feeding stems into the trellis.

They had success with cherry tomato, I've got to wonder about a heavier fruit, such as a big slicer like Big Beef ?