It's the general consensus that they are lovely annuals for most people. I sure hope there are some that are strong and return, but I got tired of trying and losing them after about 4-5 years.
Having grown a number of echinacea species, I simply can't figure out where this weakness came from? They're all pretty robust plants. Or are they out-genus crosses with rudbeckia maybe ?

I personally have been very disappointed with the new varieties. They seem to be biennial. They either come back the next year wimpy and die or not at all. I bought three orange and rust colored from the Cherokee or Cheyenne Autumn series (can't remember exact name) and I don't have a one left. I found out they are breed like many of the newer perennials to be sterile so there is no seed to germinate anywhere. I also found the mophead ones don't seem to be very attractive to the hummingbirds or butterflies. The plain old common pink one is what they prefer here.

The new hybrid Echinaceas are the ones all the fuss tends to be about, primarily due to the wide range of very strong colors they come in - peaches, oranges, pinks of all shades, reds all the way to almost maroon, golds, butter yellows. These are the ones that have a dubious track record of being fully perennial. Echinacea purpurea - in your standard pink/purple and white - are tough as nails!!

Although I have not trialed them personally - just not enough places with sun in my garden - I have heard and read good reports about Cheyenne Spirit. This is a mixed color seed strain, which is unique with the hybrids as most previous introductions have only been propagated by tissue culture. So reportedly these plants grown from seed have increased vigor and better 'staying power' :-) And will bloom the first year from seed.

@gardengal......as always, a fountain of knowledge or perhaps in this case a cone of knowledge. :) After a couple of go-rounds, I've avoided these hybrids in my designs because of questionable performance. Just too big of a headache. I'll give Cheyenne Spirit a whirl at my house and see how it does. Report back later in 2021!

Echinacea don't cross with rudbeckia, another great garden plant here. I've grown both the perennial types and the annuals with my favorite being Indian Summer, though after all the natural hybridizing it does, who knows what it is by now. Last year, a favorite natural hybrid in my garden was this rudbeckia. I hope I get more of these. I also get many natural hybrids of snapdragons which I enjoy. Diane

In my experience Aloha is excellent. Always comes back and gets bigger every year. Green Twister was new last year and I was worried it wouldn’t come back but it has already made an appearance so I’m hoping it might also be a good one.

Actually there is a cross, called
Echibeckia. Myself, not my cup of tea, I don't like rust colored flowers, but lots of people do!

https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/6856/summerina-orange-echibeckia/

Hmm, the addition of purpurea boosts the orange to a 9, very interesting. Would love to hear anyone experience with the actual plant.

My local nursery carried them the last 2 years, I think when I go to look they are rudbeckias, until I read the tag. Large flowers, nice shape But again, I could not find one without a "rust" tone to it, so none ever came home with me

Carla in Sac

there is a cross, called Echibeckia.

Award for best name in my books.

Some thoughts on growing echinaceas. I've been at this property for eight years and have planted many of the seed strains and fancier cultivars. I couldn't find an exact answer to how long Echinacea purpurea plants live, but I don't think they are exceedingly long lived. My bed with Pow Wow White is now all purple. The bed with Pow Wow Wildberry not just looks like straight species. Same with the bed of Ruby Star, that distance flower shape is gone. Finally Cheyenne Spirirts are either all gone or back to purple. The first to go of the Cheyenne Spirits were the yellow ones. Green Twister and Mellow Yellows are too new to see how they do.

Regarding the fancier cultivars, there was another problem early on in that the growers of both the liners and finished containers were not doing a good job of bulking them up for sales. Probably seeing dollar signs, it was easy to get the rooted liners out of tissue culture, put them in a pot and they bloomed very quickly. However, they did not have a hefty, well branched crown that would survive that first winter. What I see on the shelved not looks better and I think it's a combination of better breeding and better growing techniques. However, when I'm shopping for one I pick plants with big crowns and if it's late in the season no flowers. Plants I've had success with are Marmalade, Hot Papaya, Sombrero series, Aloha. I seemed to have the most problems with yellows. Overall, though, I still don't think these are long lived perennials. Maybe 5 years.

Pink Double Delight has done well for me, overwintering excellently. From reviews I’ve seen from others, it appears to be one of the more reliable of the fancy echinaceas.

Pink Double Delight is just a form of Echinacea purpurea. And there seems to be far fewer issues with perennialization with any type of E. purpurea compared to the hybrids. Specifically, it is the complex hybrids of E. purpurea, paradoxa, tennesseensis, sanguinea and pallida and others - the ones that produce the brightly colored echs you see in nurseries - that have this issue. Obviously, growing conditions will vary from garden to garden so not everyone will experience the same degree of success or failure with these newer hybrids but very few report having any of these hybrids return successfully year after year. One or two seasons seems to be most typical.

Annie of Annie's Annuals says in her catalog that the hybrids generally don't do well as perennials even in California. Her coastal conditions aren't necessarily typical of CA, but she names two echinaceas that survive the cool, wet-winter conditions. But even with those she stresses "well-drained soil". She recommends Guava Ice and Rainbow Marcella. Supposedly they've over-wintered for her multiple years.

This still doesn't address the issue of ultimate hardiness, but if it's cold and wet that is doing them in, then these two might be a place to start.

John

I've had 'Powwow White' for a couple years now, going on three - it didn't do much the first year because it kept getting mowed over (my fault, I didn't mark it!), last year it gave me several nice blooms, and it seems to have come back from winter just fine.

Maybe the mowing was actually a good thing, and the plant was able to put it's energy towards roots instead of blooms.

I'm in north MO, a cold 6a (go 30 minutes north and you hit 5b), and my plant is in one of my best beds for full sun and fluffy well draining soil. If I put it on the south side, with more summer shade and clay soil (more clay than soil I sometimes think!) it might be very different.

My experience hasn't been great with the hybrids. I've tried several. I've learned to stick with the basics. I have way too bit a garden and my plants have to stand up to my tough love protocol.

Diane: Your Rudbeckia's are to die for!

@Diane those rudbeckias are gorgeous, and your snapdragons sound beautiful as well. I'd love to see some pictures of them if you have any. Also, what part of the world do you garden in out of curiosity?

ECHIBECKIA....no joke. Just wanted to let everyone know there IS an intergeneric hybrid between echinacea and rudbeckia. The first was released back in 2014. They don't seem to have caught on, yet. But Monrovia actually sells a couple of varieties, wholesale of course.

Echinacea + Rudbeckia = Echibeckia?

Summerina® Yellow Echibeckia™

Perennialfan, I'm formerly nanadoll on the forum for many years, until houzz killed her off, and made me become Diane Brakefield. I garden in SW Idaho, zone 7, in a semi arid desert. Rudbeckia and enchinacea do like to grow here. Thanks for your interest in my snapdragons which like it here as well. I grow a mix of snaps I have planted, natural hybrids which plant themselves, and snaps which come back from previous years and act like shortlived perennials. Where do you garden? And do you grow snapdragons, too? Diane

Absolutely gorgeous, Diane!

Thanks, gawdinfever. Do you live in Boston? Diane

Absolutely beautiful Diane, and the alyssum and roses are beautiful as well. I look forward to seeing more photos of your gardens as the year goes on. I garden in Illinois. In the past I have grown snapdragons, but unfortunately our winters are a little too cold for them and they usually don't survive.

I live in St Louis, Mo, Dianne. I have grown snapdragons in previous years. My problem is I always try to grow everything! It never quite works out completely.

There's an echinacea on davesgarden called "hot papaya" that has 10 positive reviews. This is unusual for these new echinacea hybrids, but it seems like this one is performing well for most people. If you like echinaceas I'd consider giving this one a try.

I grew it last year, and it looks like it's coming back, a tiny little nub of green this week.
Carla in Sac

That's a nice pop of color!

I sowed Powwow White and Mellow Yellow early last year, they do flower the first year, even in a small pot. In late Autumn I planted them in my garden but I cannot find they coming back this year.

Previously I thought it might be the fault of the bunnies all around as these plants may not be not rabbit resistant. The rabbits nearby are all big fans about Asteraceae. But after reading the posts maybe I have mistaken the bunnies. :)