MAYbe ... but it looks to me like your foliage is pretty glossy? RdR;s leaves are not.

And your blooms, frankly, look fuller, and more "substancy" (if that's a word) than RdR was here.

..thanks Jeri, I thought that too.. I need to wait to see how the foliage develops.. I have this photo of Rose de Rescht in a growing field but photo taken in August... the foliage is described as 'lizard green' and 'rugose'...

...the last picture in my set above, of the single bloom, looks like this one here..

..my rose, but this is from a first season bare root..

One of my favorites, Fantastic fragrance

..that looks like my 4th photo down Cathy... thank you...

Well, dang -- I just don't know.

I wish I still had it growing here, but I don't.

Marlorena, your gorgeous rose might be RdR. The one from the field looks like mine. Rough/somewhat rugose "lizard green" foliage. Fuchsia-magenta blooms. High shouldered. Blooms are on the smaller side of OGRs. Round buds. Delicious scent a la MIP. Remontant. I'll dig up some photos of mine.... Carol

Bloom and opening bud.

Foliage and blooms after a hard rain.

Some more shots of RdR.

Bud and bloom.

Wide shot of multiple blooms.

Bloom, bud with sepals.

When RdR leaves are younger, they usually have a "Damask fold" in the center, like paper that's been folded in half. That feature ages out and the leaves become more convex as they also darken.

RdR is a thorny bugger!

I think that one of the features of your rose that's making me hesitate is the silvery petal reverse. I'll see if I can get a shot of my RdR bloom's backside. Carol

Carol. ...thanks for those great photos for me to compare... I'm now pretty much convinced it's the same rose... I'm not disappointed but I sort of hoped it might be different.. I've compared prickles with Hmf photos and they look the same... I do wish nurseries would not mix things up though, it's frustrating enough...

I'm seeing that Damask fold too... I did not know about that.. Thank you..

My phone won't take a photo. Argh! I'm having a technological primal scream now.

Anyway, I just checked some backsides. I wish my backside looked as good as those! My RdR blooms definitely DO have a light reverse. My own reverse, in contrast, is a bit on the heavier side!

The deep or bright raspberry-fuchsia blooms fade to a shade of lavender-pink. Usually white at the very base of the petals that are removed from the bloom. Not really visible in bloom.

The leaves are not nearly so rugose as a Gallica. Really much smoother but not what I'd call glossy. Kind of matte.

The other feature of your rose that I am wondering about is the cup-shaped outer petals as the bloom opens. (Photo 1) I'll have to check on that, too. The blooms definitely reflex as they age. My RdR is almost done with its 1st flush, but I'll try to track down some opening blooms....

The scent is one of the strongest in my garden. MIP eat your heart out! Carol

From which nursery did you get it? I'd like to look through what else they carry, because something doesn't seem right about it being "Rose de Rescht" -- foliage seems different between your pics and Carol's, and the buds look more Bourbon-ish.

:-)

Christopher

Christopher, those first two shots of blooms have a Bourbonish look to me, too. I keep double checking them. They just don't quite match anything I've seen on my RdR. But what other OGR displays all the rest: high shouldered, round budded, strong damask scented, small raspberry-fuchsia pom-pons? I'm really curious to read that nursery list, too. Carol

It does not look like RdR to me. My photos aren't too good sadly.

Hello. It's me again. :-)

I sent this link to Damask Rose yesterday on her Middle Eastern rose history thread, but I suddenly had the idea to check out the photos more closely. Link below. Photos: Santa Clarita Valley Rose Society in California, three shots of RdR blooms by Kitty Belendez. The images might speak to discussions about the cupped/sort of Bourbonish character of your rose blooms, Marlorena. Carol

https://scvrs.homestead.com/RoseDeRescht.html

Yes, Sheila. I (tentatively) agree with your not RdR assessment.

Like Jeri noted, the foliage doesn't seem quite right. A bit too glossy for one thing. The blooms are just a little too something else. I get Christopher's Bourbon-ish sense. BUT I would dearly love to see that nursery list! I am NOT an expert in smallish flowered, high shouldered, highly scented, remontant, raspberry OGRs---especially in Europe--but in the US, there just aren't that many traveling around in commerce. Where the heck did I put my dang Vintage catalog...?

Well, I've gotta clock out for awhile, Marlorena. Tom is returning with groceries, and then we have to do the hazmat re-entry protocol, wash the groceries and cook dinner. Plus, I set up my daughter with "A Wind in the Door" by Madeleine L'Engel so that I could squeeze in some rose time, but my daughter just emerged from her room and is eager to tell me all about the first few chapters! :-)

What an interesting and absolutely beautiful rose you have! Carol

Carol -- there are some of what I call "Bourbon-leaning HPs" that can look like that. The first thing I thought of is how the plant resembled my 'Monsieur Boncenne', which means it's also similar to its sibling 'Baron de Bonstetten'. Both descend heavily from 'Gloire des Rosomanes', and hence are Bourbon-ish. I'm not saying this is what it is, because the blooms are different, but the foliage and buds and growth habit remind me of them.

ETA -- also look at 'Arthur de Sansal', another descendant of 'Gloire des Rosomanes'.

:-)

~Christopher

Thanks, Christopher! I'll bet there are a lot of "kind of like RdR" Damask Perpetuals/Hybrid Perpetuals that I am totally unfamiliar with. Of the Portland types of dark pinks, I am familiar with Arthur Sansal, Rose du Roi and Rose de a Fleur Pourpres. To my eye these look different from Marlorena's rose just as RdR does, but it's been awhile since I've grown any of them. (Still missing Vintage!) I'm not sure where I've got photos of other Portland Roses stored, or I'd throw some images on the thread for comparison. Arthur probably does more closely match Marlorena's rose than RdR does, but...it doesn't seem quite right either? Other than those listed above, the two dark ones I've grown are Indigo and Duchess of Portland which are very different from Marlorena's. You and others who have grown a wider variety of Portlands/HPs will probably catch some details that inspire a probable ID. I know you've grown just about every Portland that's available in the US...and probably nearly every available HP, too. The fact that Marlorena is in England could open up a lot of possibilities, as well. Like you, I'd love to know which nursery sent the grafted rose. It's a beautiful thing whatever it is! I wish I could catch a whiff of its scent. Carol

Beautiful rose. Foliage doesn't look like my RdR and the blooms don't seem quite like it, either. My RdR just finished its first flush so I've been admiring it a lot, and I don't think they match. Hope you can find out more, it's gorgeous.

Rose de Rescht has decidedly small flowers in comparison with the leaves.

..thanks for all your comments.. now I'm as confused as ever.. I had become resigned to believing it's Rose de Rescht... thanks Christopher too for your expert eye.. and Carol / Jeri too for all your help and extensive knowledge of these roses...

Background...

I got it off Roseraie Ducher in France, under the found name ''Boufarik''.. Rose de Bouffarik HMF

..I posted those photos to HMF but it does not look like the rose Vintage had of it..

Ducher also sell Rose de Rescht.. here is a link to the Ducher site showing ''Boufarik'', it looks like the same rose I have...

Boufarik at Roseraie Ducher

..here is a link to their Rose de Rescht, which also looks similar to me..

Roseraie Ducher

..however, I do think they have sent me the rose they sell as ''Boufarik''.. I might email them using google translate and see if they can offer an explanation on how similar the two roses are to them..

''Boufarik'' has apparently been grown in Boufarik Algeria since the 19th C... I speculate it was imported by the French during colonial times but the i.d. is now unknown.. it is used for attar of roses similar to Kazanlik in Bulgaria..

I would like to think I have the genuine ''Boufarik'' found rose...

I did have Arthur de Sansal here in my garden but it blackspotted terrible, so I didn't keep it.. this rose is healthy, not a single blemish so far..

...thanks for all the advice...

Sheila your roses are beautiful... and you have a fine specimen there..

….surely my rose, if genuine, would have been known to the wider rose community WAY before now... it's too good to be obscure... which reinforces my view that it's something already out there, everywhere.... wouldn't you say?...

shebabee/monarda, I've just seen your posts.. thanks so much.. oh well, it seems it isn't R de R.... perhaps I should get a R de R as sold here or from Ducher, just to compare, I've not grown it before..

Curiouser and curiouser, Marlorena! I'm glad you posted your photos on HMF. Of the 2 other members who posted photos there, one is from WA in the US and the other is from Switzerland,. None of their pictures particularly resemble your rose.

Thank you for the Ducher website link with its description of Boufarik. I confess that I visit that site once in awhile just because I like to gaze upon the countless French roses that I will never grow...just as I do with the Old Garden Roses on the Petrovic site where Melissa has ordered many of her plants.

I hope Christopher and others on the forum can shed some light on your mystery. As you said, you could have a rose that is in commerce under another name...or who knows? I may have to dig out some of my rose research books tomorrow just to see what hints they hold.

For the record, I think you'd enjoy growing RdR. Not only might it be fun to compare RdR with your Boufarik, but RdR might also make a nice companion to the many other beautiful roses in your collection and another delicious encounter for your nose as you "totter by gently." :-) Carol

ha.!.. yes totter is about all we can do right now.. the member who posted from WA said their rose came from Vintage...maybe the colour was a bit off... the member in Switzerland I thought might have the same rose as mine looking at the foliage.. but rather inadequate photos to really compare but like you say, mine look quite different..

I have been looking at 'Rembrandt' and wondered if that had any connection..

Marlorena, how large the blooms on your Boufarik? Are the blooms smallish like RdR or larger like Maurice Lepelletier? Carol

I have a picture saved somewhere of a rose garden in either in Iran or Syria grown for perfume that is labelled "rose de Rescht". Will look for it.

I couldn't (yet) find my picture of a so-called Rose de Rescht growing for use in rows that I remembered , but here is one actually photographed growing in a rose garden in Persia (Iran). I think almost certainly re-imported from Europe. It looks very like the one we grow. Lizard-green leaves, small flowers.
http://www.ludwigsroses.co.za/gallery/roses_in_persia/

Monarda, thanks for that link, I'm finding it very interesting and will bookmark it.. however I don't think that's my rose in your picture.. but climate variations and so on.. who knows... love that Ludwig page though, I must read more on that..

Carol... oh wow, you've found something there.. I had never heard of Maurice Lepelletier, and when I looked on HMF I thought I was seeing my rose, especially this one..

HMF

...and yes the blooms are what I would call a good size, and very full petalled, I wouldn't say they are small.. but I didn't measure them.. the only thing about Maurice is that no indication of scent is mentioned in the references, and it's such a feature on my rose, but I know you weren't claiming it to be that one, just a comparison, but for a moment I was struck by the similarities..

Such a pity there is no mention of scent... I mean it's outstanding on my rose, and nobody would leave that out, that's the thing there..

Marlorena, Maurice DOES have a strong scent.

This is from Petrovic:

Maurice Lepelletier

Category:
Hybrid Perpetuals

Bred by:
Robert and Moreau (France, 1868)

Color:
Dark red

Size:
Height of up to 4' (up to 120 cm). Width of up to 3' (up to 80 cm)

Fragrance:
Strong

Repeating:
Good

AND this (drumroll) is from DUCHER:

Shrub rose Maurice Lepeltier

• Breeder : Moreau and Robert in 1868.
• Family : Perpetual hybrid.
• Flower : bright red, very double.
• Fragance : +.
• Blooming : throughout the season.
• Height : 0,9 to 1,1 m.

What do you think? A possibility?

Carol

Carol... I do appreciate yours and others interest in this..

...I'm not sure I trust Petrovic here... Ducher, who has all 3 roses, Rose de Rescht, Boufarik and Maurice, yet only gives this rose a one star for fragrance, and HMF nothing... that is not my rose... also it does not figure on their most fragrant roses list... I struggle to understand how anyone could leave this one out... so whilst I see some similarities, as I also do with Rose de Rescht, I'm not totally convinced at this stage now, that it's either..

..also it just seems to me to be more of a Portland Damask type of rose, rather than a hybrid perpetual, although I've only had a few Portland types in my time.. HP's don't tend to have such a quick repeat do they?... and my rose is already setting new buds for a 2nd flush... like Portland's do..

...I'm going to have to wait and see how it develops, then I'll update... for now, jury still out I think... is that fair?...

I think that sounds like a wise course, Marlorena! I look forward to any updates and photos you post. If you do decide to grow RdR or other similar roses to compare them with your Boufarik, I'll be very curious to read your thoughts. Thank you for the fun diversion! Christopher and others could very well have more to suggest, and if so, I'll enjoy reading their ideas, too. Whatever it is, your Boufarik is truly raspberry scrumptious in color and form, and I can only imagine the depth and deliciousness of fragrance. I clipped some RdR blooms when I was trying to photograph the petal reverse, and the vase of three is scenting my entire dining room! Carol

Thanks, Portland, I am now jonesing for Boufarik. :)

Heirloom roses is now selling Maurice.