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katherine_rohrer24

Kitchen renovation, worth new cabinets?

Ann544
3 years ago

Hi there, we are considering remodeling our current kitchen seen in the picture. We want to update the old fashioned Baltic brown countertops to white quartz with a marble backsplash. We are just contemplating whether or not we should replace our 30 year old cabinets that are in great shape currently. Since we are putting in expensive materials, is it worth getting new white cabinetry then? We want this to last 30 years! Or is it silly and a waste to get rid of quality cabinets and perfectly fine to put new quartz on them? Because of course the cost for new cabinets is exponential. What are everyone’s thoughts? Thanks in advance for your help!

Comments (69)

  • tedbixby
    3 years ago

    That 21K is not going to give you the quality that you are thinking it will. And I haven't heard of any contractors giving any pandemic discounts unless they are desperate for a job. In fact, contractors in my area are 6 -8 months out for a kitchen gut. So this sounds to me like a BUYER BEWARE case.

    If you are overall happy with the kitchen have you considered just replacing the arched doors with ones that match the lower doors? And you do need to revisit your counter and back splash choice. One or the other but not both together or you'll have regrets and will be back on here wondering what to do. We've seen that here before!

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    Might be crappy grade cabinets.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    I’m sure 21k could be put to better use in a more meaningful way. you Never know when a rainy day might come....

  • Design Girl
    3 years ago

    Do we know where OP lives? Different parts of the country have different price structures. I'm in the Northeast and my 16 x 16 kitchen cabinets were quoted at 50K - That's just the cabinets. Perhaps OP has a relationship with a cabinet maker etc. However, most 30 year old anything is better than what we get now, be it cars, appliances, etc.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago



  • Gcubed
    3 years ago

    Maybe get new faces for the cabinets and build boxes to the ceiling. Then add the new countertop but would go with tile back splash, not marble.

  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    We have a relationship with the buyer and it’s a family owned business, so that’s also the reason for the large discount and she was recommended to us by an interior designer who always uses her so I know the quality is good and they’re all real wood. She is swamped with business. But yes definitely a lot to consider :) I love the above photo! The look I’m going for!

  • anomoley
    3 years ago

    The right side of your kitchen is similar to the way ours looked - the single cabinet to the side of the window. We replaced that cabinet with shelving and it really opened up/lightened up that area of the kitchen (plus, we love having shelving).


    We also extended our uppers to the ceiling, and the two changes made a huge impact (along with adding glass to three of the cabinets.


    We still have cathedral uppers, and I truly love the bit of traditional charm they add to the kitchen - it may not be in, but it's no reason to change quality solid wood, well functioning doors for MDF doors that'll cost you a fortune. I can find a pic to post of ours if you'd like to see it, just let me know - we have dark granite and painted our own cabinets.


    Good luck with your decision!

  • tedbixby
    3 years ago

    What brand are the cabinets you've been quoted on?

  • Design Girl
    3 years ago

    @live_wire_oak - OP has stated she has a relationship with the cabinet maker and is getting solid wood cabinets.

  • RedRyder
    3 years ago

    If you can tolerate the mess and have a “family” discount of good cabinets, then I would do a full remodel. Use drawers instead of doors on your lower area and you’ll be glad you redid the kitchen for that reason alone! I, too, disagree with the countertop/backsplash combination you chose, but that’s not important. Calculate the cost of new cabinets, drawers below, cabinets to the ceiling, new crown molding, some glass doors, new sink and THEN add countertop and backsplash. The inspiration photo above is pretty spectacular. But get the full price first. The earlier you do this the better. And donate your old cabinets to Habitat for Humanity.

  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    3 years ago

    IMO even Ikea would be better than what you might get even from a friend and it would be hard to guess about anything else. IMO new cabinets will give you much better storage . All the cabinets should go to the ceiling all the base ones should be drawers and I honestly think to spend money on new counters in an old kitchen is a waste . The cabinets you have are a dated style and you will amazed at how much more storage you will get from new fulloverlay cabinets. BTW I never like mixing real and fake marble together and IMO polished granite is a much better choice than quartz for counters and there are many nice white granites .

  • territheresa
    3 years ago

    Regarding dust and grease collecting on top of the uppers. I line the top of my uppers with paper towels and change them out every so often. They collect the grease and dust so they don't need scrubbing.

  • Indecisiveness
    3 years ago

    What do the cabinets look like close up?

    I tend to be frugal, so if there are no condition issues with the boxes, I’d leave them with the thought of someday getting new doors.

    With that said, I’m not a fan of the marble backsplash tile with your quartz counter

  • M Miller
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    To the OP - 30 years is enough time for any cabinetry. I think if you only get the new counters and backsplash, your cabinets will seem even more contrasting with their age and design and you will not be happy. You could get a much prettier, more functional kitchen, by a complete do-over.

    My advice is to make sure to get frameless cabinets (you currently have framed; frameless will give you more interior space especially the drawers and uppers), base cabinets that are all or mostly drawers, and have the uppers meet your ceiling. Look for 39" tall upper cabinets and 3" crown; I think for that kitchen that is your best configuration. I have a feeling that the cabinet line you are looking at will not offer any of those things.

    "What are you going to store up where you need a stepladder to get it? Then you have to store the stepladder. And worry about falling off it someday getting down the once-a-year turkey platter."

    (1) The OP's kitchen looks to be an 8' ceiling. No "stepladder" needed, a stepstool that folds to ultra-thin will be sufficient. Most people have a stepstool in their homes; the kitchen isn't the only place in the house that might need a step stool. There are threads on this forum with suggestions about the ultra-thin and light step stools.

    (2) Most women of average height will need a stepstool for anything above the second shelf regardless if the cabinets meet the ceiling or not. A need for a stepstool should not be a factor in deciding to have cabinets meet the ceiling.

    (3) Actually, I find it invaluable to store those holiday things and other rarely-used items in the top shelves. Where else would I put them? In the basement? (I don't have one), or some closet's upper shelf where I would also need a stepstool? I am not understanding why someone would object to having more storage space in a kitchen. As to falling off - yes, each person has to judge their own balance and agility. So far I am fine, I go up and down stepstools and ladders. But in a home that I might move into in my later years, I might think about this. The OP has not indicated she is someone where balance/agility are issues.

    "I spent an entire day cleaning that area above the cabinets in my daughters new home. It was backbreaking work and we needed to scrape the grease and dust off with a paint scraper."

    That means there was something wrong with the hood exhaust, or there was no hood exhaust at all. I have had several kitchens with cabinets that don't meet the ceiling. I lay wax paper on top of those uppers (it's the right size, way better than the paper bags that DesignGirl suggested). When I collect the wax paper twice a year (while changing smoke detector batteries), there's almost nothing on there. If you needed a paint scraper to get grease off, that means (A) improper or no kitchen exhaust, and (B) no one has cleaned up there in more than a decade. Having said that, I prefer upper cabinets to meet the ceiling because that will make the ceiling appear higher, and will provide more storage space.

  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    The brand for the cabinets is Forever Mark Cabinetry. We do not need the best of the best, just quality cabinets

  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Okay you can just please stop responding to this post, I don’t need your rude responses, thank you

  • RedRyder
    3 years ago

    Ignore the people who only comment to be condescending and mean. I think most of us agree new countertops and backsplash with 30 ear old cabinets won’t work. Start talking to your friend about real numbers.

  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thank you RedRyder for the kind response! Yeah I definitely agree with you that it is worth finding new cabinets to support the new countertops and backsplash, so I can discuss more with her because she offers a lot of high quality products too with lifetime warranties (unlike the one I mentioned she recommended to me), she just wasn’t bringing those up to me as options because she knows my budget limit and also how much I want a new kitchen so wanted to make it work for me. I knew they weren't super high-quality from the start, I also just can't afford a 50k kitchen remodel right now unfortunately haha, and simply wanted to know if people thought it was worth replacing 30-year-old cabinets with new countertops or knew how long they could last, so I appreciate your advice. I'll figure it out I'm sure :)

  • jmarco
    3 years ago

    I had 30 year old natural cherry cabinets and put new dark granite countertops and marble backsplash. It updated the whole kitchen. Cabinets were semi custom solid wood. Good cabinets that have been taken care of should last past 30 years. Think hard before buying any of the “new” cabinets just for the sake of change. I have several friends that regret the so called updating.

    Ann544 thanked jmarco
  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thank you, jmarco! That’s reassuring to hear. Ours are definitely very nice quality, I can’t believe they’re 30 years old honestly! So I might still update the counters and backsplash like you mentioned and down the road, I can just maintain our current ones and update the cabinet doors if need be, knowing it could be a little risky. Otherwise I’ll just hold off for now and wait a long time if we truly want to redo everything. Decisions decisions!

  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    thanks live_wire_oak, yeah I think at the end of the day what I've realized is, I don't have a million dollar house (if only!), so I agree that a 68k remodel would not be worth it in a space like mine, that's why I was thinking of doing it in a cost-effective way with some materials not being of high-quality, but in the end it's not worth it to be cheap on certain things like cabinets. It was a fun, yet unrealistic dream in the end. I can definitely consider other options at this point that would better suit my space.

  • Buehl
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Everyone is talking about the exterior of the cabinets...what about the interior? Do you have roll out tray shelves or stationary shelves in the base cabinets? If stationary shelves, that right there would be the only reason I would need for replacing the cabinets. I would also get more drawer bases instead of roll out tray (or stationary) shelves.

    How well do the drawers work? Are they wood-on-wood or do they have decent glides?

    Do you have an IKEA near you? Their kitchen cabinetry is highly rated. It includes, standard, such things as soft-close drawers -- which is usually an upcharge.

    IKEA are frameless.

    If you don't go with frameless (i.e., something other than IKEA), then at least opt for full overlay with no center stiles instead of the partial overlay with center stiles you have now. Full overlay is a higher-end look.

  • RedRyder
    3 years ago

    If you like your layout and the “boxes” are in good shape, you could just reface the whole room. (And the company can change lower doors to drawers.) But it’s not cheap, so again, get the numbers so you and your husband can make an INFORMED decision. The suggestion of a different countertop to go with the look of your cabinets is also a good one. Let’s all be honest here - budgets matter. You may be willing to spend $10k now and be happy a long time, or wait a while and spend $30-65k down the road.

    Ann544 thanked RedRyder
  • tedbixby
    3 years ago

    New hardware ( brushed silver) and something a bit more interesting than the choices you are considering for the backsplash and countertops and I think you'll be happy with your kitchen.

    painted white arched cabinet kitchens - Google Search · More Info


  • salonva
    3 years ago

    I think the kitchen looks really nice already but can definitely understand wanting to update/change to what you really want. What concerns me is that you mentioned the cabinets were painted by the previous homeowner (if I understood correctly). That is a piece of the puzzle that makes me wonder about how much more life the cabinets have. For sure they are good and solid and I don't mean to suggest otherwise, but not all painted cabinets wear well.


    Ann544 thanked salonva
  • Design Girl
    3 years ago

    Your kitchen is really not bad. I understand wanting to change out the granite and wanting cabinets to go to the ceiling with more function. However, spending money on counters and splash without new cabinets imo is wasted money. Changing cabinets to something that isn't real quality is wasting money as well. Why not change out the hardware for satin nickel and save for the kitchen you really want.

    Ann544 thanked Design Girl
  • mrs1916
    3 years ago

    I’m frugal, but think you need to get new cabinets. Drawers and pullouts alone will change your life! Also take them to the ceiling. At the end of the day, your cabinet profile is dated and you’ll never get a new look beyond what you have now without replacing the cabinets.

  • megs1030
    3 years ago

    I did not read all the responses. What about just replacing doors with a more updated front? I'm assuming the cabinet boxes are in great shape. It would be a shame to spend the money to fully replace the cabinets, especially if your layout is staying the same...


    If you do replace your cabinets, sell them. And they'll sell for a pretty good penny. Or donate and take the tax write-off. I sold our kitchen cabinets for $5k and they were a medium stained wood (the boxes and shelves were melamine and the doors were solid wood).

    Ann544 thanked megs1030
  • M Miller
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    "sell them. And they'll sell for a pretty good penny."

    Actually, they won't. There is little market for those. There are listings on Craig's List for 10-year-old cabinetry that do not sell. Donate would be a better idea.

    I reiterate what I said above that I agree it's best that the OP replace the cabinets. Putting new counters and backsplash with the existing cabinets will make the OP unhappy at spending all that money only to end up highlighting the age of the cabinetry.

    Your kitchen should not cost the $68k mentioned above. You are not changing your floor, and you are not making structural changes. My kitchen is larger than yours, and by shopping carefully, mine cost about $35k, and a disproportional amount of that was 2 splurges - expensive counters and handmade tile backsplash. It would have come in for a lot less had I not had those splurges. MInd you, I was a demon for bargains for appliances, sink, knobs/pulls, electrical, etc., and also got my cabinetry from a local small business, though not from a custom shop.

    As I said above, look for a cabinet company that offers frameless cabinets, upper cabinets that come 39" tall (sometimes called "semi custom", but not "custom") so that they can meet the ceiling, and base drawers.


    Ann544 thanked M Miller
  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your help! And yes, I'm definitely keeping my hardwood floors, they're brand new as well as my other appliances (minus the dishwasher but it works fine for now). I think in the end since I don't want to spend that much money on the kitchen right now and my decor would be described as "farmhouse chic", picture of my coffee bar as an example! Maybe it makes the most sense for me to just keep my current countertops and cabinets, add brushed bronze hardware, and remove the small backsplash currently there and replace it with white subway tiles across the entire back wall. Then I was thinking I would add in a farmhouse sink, a rustic wood hood cover over the stove, and then add maybe some wood floating shelves in place of the white cabinets to the right of the sink to tie it all together and call it a day. Inspiration here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UpWYWRww8A&t=286s. I think maybe with our super dark floors this might look the best anyway and give it the rustic, farmhouse feel and update it a bit from how it looks now. Down the line, I can just resurface the faces of the cabinets. The paint has been on for about two years and is in perfect condition thankfully! Will probably have to touch it up here and there too, but not a big deal to me. We have helpful pullout drawers currently and lazy susans and all that, so they function well.




  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    My bedroom too, so maybe a kitchen with a marble backsplash and marble type countertops (I don’t want anything else if I’m doing a full remodel honestly, it’s exactly how I envision my perfect kitchen :) ) doesn’t match the aesthetic of my house and the current Baltic brown can work with the updates I mentioned above


  • Karenmo
    3 years ago

    Glad you reconsidered about the counter since I was going to tell you I thought your kitchen looked pretty darned good as it is -- the Baltic brown counters go very nicely with the floor, etc. And they are natural stone instead of a man-made material trying to imitate stone, and not doing a great job of it.

    Not to mention that the most environmentally responsible thing is not to trash perfectly good materials! And we all want to be green, right? (Of course, there is a balance with aesthetics or half the kitchen renovation companies would be out of business, ha!).

    I like your idea of removing the one wall cabinet by the dishwasher to open things up and add some shelves for interest -- but please hold on to that cabinet in the garage or somewhere, in case you change your mind (or your needs change down the road, as so often happens when new people join the family..

    About the backsplash -- subway tiles are classic, and economical, but please take your time with the tile selection to see if you can find something that fits the look you want but isn't so, well, boring. Luckily, you have no rush to meet a contractor's schedule. The best situation! Have fun with this!

    Ann544 thanked Karenmo
  • Ann544
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thanks @Karenmo, that definitely makes me feel better knowing that Baltic Brown counters aren't that bad and that it actually works well in my current space. I also agree about being green, I was having the hardest time thinking of throwing away real granite and nice cabinets! Definitely will keep that cabinet to the right of the sink if I remove it for the shelving. It's hard to think of giving up that cabinet space, but I admittedly prefer looks over convenience. So while this kitchen isn't my dream kitchen, I think with some finishing touches it can look pretty good. Agree the subway tile is boring, it's just so darn hard to match Baltic Brown lol! I'll keep looking...

  • Fori
    3 years ago

    I don't generally like brown but what you have there is quite nice. For the backsplash, have you thought about beadboard (either a tile or wood)? It's kinda farmhouse chic and not the same subway you see everywhere.


    (Sidenote: why would one constantly clean the tops of cabinets nobody can see? I don't dust the crawlspace under my house, either!)

  • PRO
    Nieu Cabinet Doors
    3 years ago

    Hey there! Great question and one that many homeowners run into. Where to spend the biggest amount on a kitchen remodel, and do you need to/is it worth the cost and mess of ripping out cabinets! Refacing is an excellent option if you have high quality cabinet boxes (that by the sounds of it are in great shape) and you want to update the style and/or color of the doors! With refacing you can get a completely "new" look for about 60% less the cost of "replacing" your kitchen. It's fast, cost efficient, and very minimal on resources and labour. At Nieu Cabinet Doors we manufacture CUSTOM painted cabinet doors (so if you've got some wonky sized cabinets, you don't need to worry!), where you can pick a new door style and colour to match your new counters and other design elements! Check out your available options here! We're more than happy to chat with you about your options - we even have a cute little sample kit where you can order a 9" x 12" version of your door style and colour to see it in a mood board with your counter, backsplash etc! Best of luck with your renovation!

  • RedRyder
    3 years ago

    I think your ideas for “updating” are great. Just remember that a standard farmhouse sink with a wide front will require adjustments to your base cabinet. Search for the farmhouse sinks that go right into the cabinet you have already. (I believe Koehler has it.) Adding a new backsplash is also a great idea, as is new hardware. Oil rubbed bronze will bring out the tone of your countertop.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago


    Bringing up cabinets to the ceiling, either by adding a panel or frame out boxes... or if it fits, short cabinet with glass door fronts, and added light for highlighting... decor item, a nice plate or vase?


  • ljptwt7
    3 years ago

    I, too, had a dilemma as to was it worth spending more money on new cabinets...in the end I just could not stomach spending that much money! I already had rev-a- shelf pull out drawers in most of my bottom cabinets so I didnt "need" drawers. I did replace the cabinet above my stove with a cabinet that went all the way to the ceiling and added smaller cabinets above the cabinets on the stove wall. I couldn't put them above the other cabinets because there wasn't enough room ( I'm talking fraction of an inch). Maybe you can look into that option. My husband added crown molding and a small molding on the cabinets that went to the ceiling. I really wanted cabinets all the way to the ceiling because my kitchen is small and needed the extra storage space but again could not stomach that cost to replace all my cabinets or even just the uppers. My cabinets are just oak the builder put in 20 years ago and I painted them myself. Would others do that?? Probably not, but I am perfectly happy and I'm so glad I didn't spend thousands and thousands if not the 10 to $50000 people are talking about!
    In the end you have to decide if you're willing to spend the money or just tweak what you have.
    Your kitchen looks fine! In 20 years who knows if those cathedral tops will be in style again lol! If it functions well a new backsplash and knobs/handles may be all that you really want.
    Beat wishes on whatever you decide.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    yes, customize kitchen cabinets with modern solutions, Rev-a-shelf!


    i know it’s available at big box stores.

    Checkout the inventive solutions.

    https://rev-a-shelf.com


  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    added panel and need to add crown moulding. Made a custom hood range cover.. has hinges to lift up to access just Incase.


    still need to add backsplash etc.. covid delay


  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    Farm house sink may go out of style as it is a trend.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    to achieve farm house style kitchen, I would recommend adding accessories/decor: drawer pulls, kitchen towels, soap pump, white cabinets (you got them!)

    maybe dish set,



    https://www.livinglocurto.com/farmhouse-kitchen-decorating-ideas/


  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    I would change the faucet to a pull out spray, bonus is it is touchless. And you can always keep up with the trends with decor and accessories. Different themes, eg. Christmas farm house, with a hot chocolate area with cute acccessories on a tier tray...

    i would get the countertop in before deciding on a backsplash.

  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    Get a lot of stuff made out of Mason jars= 100% guarantee farm house decor. 🐄🏡

  • 2HOC
    3 years ago

    @M Miller I agree that far better value can be got for a quality kitchen by taking many of the items out of the control of the contractor. They just purchase them on your behalf and double if not treble the cost. I used the webapp below for the detailed estimate and project managed my own kitchen... My only overspend was on the lights but I picked a fairly high quality set. As it happened @Me AGirl it was the kitchen that you posted earlier.


    FYI, link to webapp .... https://www.houseofcosts.com 





  • Me AGirl
    3 years ago

    I have this link with instructions on how to extend cabinets to the ceiling.


    https://centsiblechateau.com/how-to-extend-your-cabinets-to-the-ceiling-in-under-an-hour-for-20-or-less


    what decisions have been made? What’s the progress? I’m excited to see.

  • missenigma
    3 years ago

    There's a kitchen designer who used to post on here Paul McAlary. I haven't seen him posts by him in a long time. His company is Main Line Kitchen Design. His website has a lot of good information regarding kitchen design, cabinets, cabinet quality and the the overall remodeling process. It's worth a look: https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/

    You may agree with all his positions and opinions on things but there's a lot on their to learn from.


    This discussion triggered a memory of something I remember reading on his site about upper cabinet height. He posted the following along with this photo:


    "Good designers almost never use 42″ high wall cabinets and would NEVER use anything higher. Builders and amateurs use these heights to maximize cabinetry not realizing that the higher height looks out of proportion and gives little added space benefit. Cabinetry doors look best when their size is closer to The Golden Ratio. Good designers will stack cabinets with small cabinet doors on top to avoid overly tall wall cabinets.

    42″ Wall Cabinets. Don’t they look silly so tall?"



    Here's link to the whole blog entry "Kitchen design style tips only the Pros know!"

    https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/general/kitchen-design-style-tips-pros-know/