I grow both and don't really consider them similar in either color or growth. H. is more red and quite an unusual shade at that. It has huge gorgeous flowers with a distinctive tea scent. It is medium thorny, forming a medium smallish sized bush that is prone to BS in my poor draining alkaline soil with at least 45'-50' rainfall per year. It's a beautiful rose that I have always wondered why it's not more widely grown in long-growing season, low BS areas due to its compact nature. It is also quite hardy experiencing little die-back. The flowers last a while on the bush and fade to a lovely colour and then fall off, negating the need to dead-head.

I love Falstaff here. I do not have Heathcliff. Falstaff is tall and vase shaped. It is in the middle in the photo.

Houzz going weird... posting again to avoid erasure. Falstaff has a decided rosey tinge with a darker outside rim. Its flowers are more swirly and flatter, but exceptionally beautiful especially when combined with its warm raspberry rose fragrance. It is totally different in its growth habit being a gangly grower that can be used as a small climber with med. thorny canes. It's slightly better for BS. I am noticing that in its 4th? year, it's sending up much thicker, sturdier and less pliable canes. Repeat is slow for both, but slightly better for F. I KNOW that that improves markedly with better care after the initial bloom, but I'm often lax. A good shovelfuI if manure or compost with some fertilizer will help replenish their energy. I'll try to dig up pics of both, but H. is a very difficult colour for me to capture. I look forward to others' experience with these two.

I am very attracted to Falstaff. The blooms are a deep reddish-purple that I love, with cupped blooms that open to show a multi-petaled rosette. The blooms have not "pinked out" during higher temperatures; the fragrance is moderate and quite lovely (its fragrance is one of my favorites too). I think it will become tall, and the growth I have witnessed is as Sheila described. Its fault in my garden is blackspot. It doesn't lose all of its leaves or even develop a horrible case of blackspot; however, with temperatures that have been in the '90s almost daily, it has blackspot! No other rose in my garden has this issue right now, so this is concerning. I hope that given time, Falstaff will grow out of this, and what I am seeing is not an indication of worse to come...

I do not grow Heathcliff...I think that every time I noticed this rose, it could not break through my fixation on something else...

Thank you, Vaporvac, Sheila, and Lynn!! I wasn't sure if I made the right choice of getting Falstaff, but your pictures and experience has made me glad that I did. Where I am is dry and hot (been triple digits for weeks) so it was nice to see Falstaff holding up well. The reason why I thought that Falstaff and Heathcliff looked similar because they both had a slight pink tint to their red (probably due to our intense heat), but I'm glad to know that Falstaff is generally darker since that is what I prefer.

Thanks, austinkisses! How you had them draped over the gate arch is just beautiful!! I live in Southern California so even though the tag said 4' x 3.5' I figured it would get bigger in my climate. I might try to train it around an obelisk somehow.

Gorgeous pictures. Austin, my sympathies in losing that beauty. These pics really show the colour. I wouldn't say it's a darker red than Heathcliff, just more decidedly purple. Lynn, mine has definitely improved regarding BS. Not great, but better than others.

Austin - sheesh!!!! What FABULOUS pictures!!! Talk about gorgeous!!! :) I agree with Vaporvac...what a shame to have lost that stunner!

Sheila - look at the colors in that lone bush (last shot)!!!! Oh my!!! Ooooh!! And then you have the picture with the foxgloves!!! Lovely!!!

I clearly remember a rose member that lived in California rave about how well Falstaff did in her heat. It was one of her favorite roses. I think you might be in luck! It’s a beautiful rose.

Cori Ann loved Falstaff.

Yes! I saw Cori Ann's photos of Falstaff on HMF. They looked fabulous!!

Yes that is who I was thinking of!

Here are some pictures of Falstaff.

Click for detail.

Here are some of the very few I've taken of Heathcliff. The last two were from last year and she has greatly increased the size and petal count of her blooms. Her color has also gained in intensity. Again, click for detail.

Thank you for the comparison photos, Vaporvac! Really appreciate it! You have such beautiful flowers!

G o h thank you! Do you live near coryann? She had magic soil! It was insane. Within one year roses were humongous and looked gorgeous she didn't even need to fertilize except for a bit of nitrogen. I am sure yours are going to be gorgeous.

Vaporvac, if I recall she lives in Northern California, and I live in Southern California, but if her area is hot and dry, then we are in similar gardening conditions. I hope my roses can look at least half as good as hers!! I'm still at newbie at this, haha.

I just remember but she lived inland but had chill hours to grow peaches so perhaps not Southern California. But she was very hot and dry in the summer.

Vaporvac, we have a Red Baron Peach tree growing in our yard. It only required 250 chill hours though!

Hello , so between those two , which one you would recommend for humid and hot weather ? thank you

My Falstaff was a really poor bloomer compared to other roses. It was healty but also really disappointing. Heathcliff is essentially unobtainable Europe—phased out by DA Uk. Munstead Wood is a better bloomer--amazing but has been phased out by David Austin UK and Europe and possibly in the US too. I read an article that it was not compatible with climate change or some such...see: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/11/why-climate-change-means-some-english-roses-will-bloom-no-longer

Some such BS in my oinionpinion opinion! Of the three, Munstead Wood definitely outlflowers the others, but Flalstaff and Heathcliff are rare beauties and here dont take up much space so still worthwhile. TessDU is another in this category that I like that also can grow as a smallish climber. Its flower form is more lax, but full of charm.

Tess is also another that has been phased out by DA. Of the 4 varieties you mention, only Falstaff is still officially obtainable from DA UK/Europe.

If you are missing those dark reds and/or red-violets, like Othello, Prospero, Tess, The Prince, The Squire, Darcy Bussell, The Dark Lady, Tradescant, Munstead, etc. (all now officially "retired"--at least from DA UK/Europe), Dominique Massad has created a few within the past decade that are still on offer, like Somme 2016, Christian Tetedoie, Domaine Dittiere, Lea Mege, Cybelle; and Meilland also still offers dark reds like Black Baccara, Black perfumella, Papa Meilland.... And then of course there is "Gräfin Diana" which I belive has various names in various countries. There are also a couple of old roses still in circulation called "Louis XIV" and Souvenir du Docteur Jamain that are supposedly a bit tricky but perhaps worth a try. It is really a shame that there are not more DA roses on offer now from DA Europe/UK that have rich dark colors because the ones that used to be sold were really cool!

Munstead is not retired in the US yet. Get this outstanding rose while you can. Diane

Heathcliff is named for a male character, and a manly man at that, from what I gather. Definitely a "he" rose! I have loved the blooms, but it's one that seems to not love me, although that could just be the Dr. Huey clanking from down below.

A beautiful shade of red that isn't harsh, overly bright, or particularly blue. A pronounced, medium-strength fragrance that smells delightfully like a wet black tea bag. Steven

I do love myself some Munstead Wood. Mine has been a smallish, gaunt prickly witch own-root that throws blooms of an incredibly wide variety from hot pinks and light crimsons to the deepest, sultriest, blackish crimson to crimson purples and always filled with the most splendidly delicious pure rose and rich, sun-ripened fruits. I highly recommend this rose. It's wonderful.

Absolutely my favourite type and colour class of rose, but I demand fragrance from certain appearances and shades. Plus to enjoy. Lightly scented blooms work great for the landscape presence workhorses. Steven

Those pics are so pretty! Diane is right--If you can still get MW, it is totally worth it to snap it up before it's gone! In Europe, you can sometimes still find one because private garden centers/nurseries haven't yet sold all their remaining stock... I recently managed to grab a second one (sold in a pot) that way--the only one left. It is really unique.

Just to update: in year four, my Falstaff is huge, and is producing enormous, dark red, flowers that look like the catalog's, and the first flush must have at least 30-40 buds, as did its last flush in year 3. Some Austin roses just take time. I am glad, I didn't SP this one. e. At first, it did mildew. Now it never has any health issues and is a part of the garden that the hose has trouble getting to. A survivor, for sure, just needs patience.